BB. One problem is that we pick out a scripture, bring it out of the context is in, and then apply it to all.
For example, who was Jesus talking to when He said "Ye shall die in your sins" ?(Those who did not believe that He was the Christ, then and now.)
Obviously, they were not His disciples, nor the crowd that were gathered round Him and followed Him wherever He went, either to be fed, or to witness His miracles.
He was addressing the religious of His day, to whom He also previously said, "Ye are of your father, the devil".
(He was addessing the Pharasees who believed Him not.)
Nowhere in the Bible is faith a prerequisite to eternal salvation, or the salvation from the penalty of sin which is eternal separation from God. (Except you believe that I am He you shall die in your sins, How much more plain could you be. )
Faith is prerequisite to timely salvation, though.
Now you're not going to like that, and indeed there are those even among my people, the Primitive Baptists, who do not like that either, but, mainly because they are double and/or absolute predestinarians.
Let's chill out a little and allow me to use an example. Now, this may not be the perfect example, but, at the moment, this is what I can think of despite my diabetically clouded brain.
You are as familiar with the story of Tarzan as I am, I suppose ?
Well, we know that this apeman who grew up thinking he was an ape, behaving like an ape, living like an ape, was actually the son of a nobleman in the far shores of England.
His behaving so and all did not negate the fact that he was of noble blood, did it ?
So, one day, his relatives brought him home, to this palatial residence.
Well, somebody had to teach him that those automobiles are not going to hurt him, that the chair he is to sit on properly will not fold up on him, that a nobleman ought to dress like a nobleman, use fork and knife, and chew slowly like a civilized human being.
Call all of those gospel instruction on gospel living.
If he obeys these instructions, he exercised faith and trust on his kinsman who sent him his teachers.
The point is that whether or not he was brought from the jungle to the city, whether or not he learned all those, or whether or not somebody teaches him, he is still a nobleman, albeit living strangely in a faraway land.
Faith is needed to turn from idols to the living God, especially in the context of the times in which the writer wrote those words, when religion was mixed with sensuality.
Faith is needed to believe that the carpenter nailed to the cross is a worthy Lord, if and when the good news comes to the elect child of God.
That is what Paul was saying when he said "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God' in reference to those still living like apes in the jungles of Judaism to whom Paul wanted to bring the gospel.
However, the eternal salvation of His people is hinged on simply the benevolent, sovereign will and decree of God, and at no time are we to add anything else to it.
The salvation of His people is only because of the Faithfulness of the Savior and His obedience to the Father, absolute, sovereign grace, plus or minus nothing.
What I hear you saying is that the salvation of the sinner is dependent on Christ's finished work PLUS his inherent faith !
Now, what are you going to do with those who by virtue of mental challenges are unable to believe and therefore exercise faith ?
What are you going to do with babies who are unable to exercise faith ?
Old questions I understand, but, I think valid.
raying: