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What Was God Thinking?
- Thread starter Aaron
- Start date
I think it is declared saying that all things were created by Him and for Him Colossians 1:16 , and, For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified 1 Corinthians 2:2
His eternal and universal identity and glory is founded wholly on His act of Atonement, as His title, Christ, and the verses you quote in a subsequent post clearly and loudly declare: Wherefore [because Jesus was obedient unto the death of the Cross] God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; Philippians 2:9-10
He bears the marks of the nails and of the spear in His glorified body. We will not bear the marks of our wounds, but He does His, and they do not detract from His glory. They are His glory. The Lamb, slain before the foundation of the earth...
It. Is. Who. He. Is.
Who. He. Always. Was.
Who. He. Always. Will. Be.
The world was created for the purpose of sending His Son to die. That was the Father's first thought.
Lighten up, Dave.I'd like to urge you to re-think what you've stated here, Aaron.
Even in jest I would not have made such a comment.
I realize that you were only being tongue-in-cheek...
But I for one would have never even come close to suggesting such a thing.
Please think about how you present the Lord in your posts, sir, so as to bring only glory and honor to His name.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Outside of what Scripture states?
Then please point them out.
The Lord is far and away, infinitely more intelligent than any of His creations.
He is so far ahead of us as to make a genius look like a babbling idiot.
Most of what He plans is unknown to even His children, at least in the finer details.
What is made known to us is all contained in His word.
But He does reveal what is going on to His children.
It's called "the Bible", and it can be understood by ordinary men.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
utilyan,
Sometimes I see some of the things you write, and they amaze me with their apparent audacity.
I can only hope that the Lord instills a true fear and respect for Him and His word in you someday ( Proverbs 1:7, Proverbs 9:10 ), because to me, it's not there yet.
But He doesn't.
Nowhere does His word declare that His foreknowledge is anything other than what is found in Jeremiah 1:5, Isaiah 43:21 and Psalms 139, to name a few.
The definition of "foreknowledge" is not "God knowing who will accept Him" or even "God looking ahead to see who will believe"...
That is an assumption based on the word, "foreknow", and not defining "foreknow" by what His word actually tells us.
God's word tells His people what "total depravity" is, and what man's condition is as a rebellious sinner.
Again, please read Romans 1, Romans 3, John 3:19-20, Psalms 10, Psalms 14, Psalms 36, Psalms 53 and the Proverbs.
It's all in there, with no "interpretation" needed.
One only has to believe the very words.
It shouldn't be difficult for a believer in Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross for them, to do so.
Believing His word is why we are called, "believers".
I'm a very ordinary person, utilyan.
I'm not a "theologian", nor a scholar, nor a "Bible college professor", ( whatever that means ).
I'm a former paperboy,
dishwasher,
delivery driver,
U.S. Navy aircraft electrician,
C-Band satellite technician with multiple technical degrees in electronics and a machining certificate,
former light industry service / repair technician,
electronics technician,
electro-mechanical technician,
and a former Shipping and Receiving clerk...
now working as a parts handler.
If anything defines "ordinary", its me.
I also know of a truck driver that understands more of the Scriptures than many people who spend their entire lives teaching at seminaries...
Does that not define "ordinary"?
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
I'm always open to correction, sir, and I'm sorry if I've offended you by my apparent tone, but there are some things that I take seriously.
The Lord and His words are some of those things.
I encourage you to do the same, my friend.
False dilemma.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I guess we will have to disagree, if only on a finer point of detail.
To me, the world was created for His glory, and that included His Son dying and being raised again.
May God bless you sir.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
But it does make you think a bit, doesn't it?
What would have happened if man had never sinned?
Then we would not have needed a Saviour, would we?
Jesus Christ would never have had to give up the glory He had at the right hand of the Father and become a man, live a sinless life, be treated like garbage by His own creation, suffer an excruciating death on a cross and act as the Mediator to an everlasting covenant between God and mankind...
Does it not drive you into His word to find answers for many things, ITL?
It does me.
I think @Aaron has made a valid point, but is focusing in on only one thing in a bit broader picture.
The Lord and His grace, kindness, mercy, righteousness, justice, majesty, holiness and power.
I find it amazing that He bothered with any of us, rather than simply wiping the slate and starting over.
Think of it...
A perfect world without murder, lies, cheating, stealing, betrayal, greed, violence, war, etc. and everyone on it loving Him and each other ( Revelation 21, Revelation 22 ).
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
Instead,
He created everything,
allowed a portion of the angels to sin,
cast them to earth as part of His plans,
allowed us to sin,
chose His children from among those sinners,
guides His children that He loves intimately and from the foundation of the world throughout their lives by his Spirit,
sends His Son as their Saviour to die and rise again...
and then sends His Son back to rule a mostly hostile world with His saints at Jerusalem for 1,000 years.
After that,
He sends those who He didn't reserve to Himself to their rightful place in His justice and wrath,
and keeps those He saved in His mercy and kindness to walk with Him for the rest of eternity on a new earth in a new city where the glory of God shines forever.
All for His glory.
I'm looking forward to the end of it all,
the new heavens and the new earth...aren't you?
He created everything,
allowed a portion of the angels to sin,
cast them to earth as part of His plans,
allowed us to sin,
chose His children from among those sinners,
guides His children that He loves intimately and from the foundation of the world throughout their lives by his Spirit,
sends His Son as their Saviour to die and rise again...
and then sends His Son back to rule a mostly hostile world with His saints at Jerusalem for 1,000 years.
After that,
He sends those who He didn't reserve to Himself to their rightful place in His justice and wrath,
and keeps those He saved in His mercy and kindness to walk with Him for the rest of eternity on a new earth in a new city where the glory of God shines forever.
All for His glory.
I'm looking forward to the end of it all,
the new heavens and the new earth...aren't you?
View attachment 3362
For those who say that God "looked down the corridors of time"and merely provided the Cross as a remedy to something that would happen to His plan (and He didn't have to look far. Maybe you should call it a "cubbyhole of time.") ...
What was His original plan? To frolic naked in a garden paradise till the world was over populated?
Now, most people know I don’t believe in the “corridors of time” thingy or any of the Platonistic Omniscience stuff.
But I’ll go ahead and point out your failure since no one else is.
Genesis 3:16 NLT
[16] Then he said to the woman, "I will sharpen the pain of your pregnancy, and in pain you will give birth. And you will desire to control your husband, but he will rule over you. "
Procreation is clearly changed after the fall. How much so is not specified but it’s not that important. In addition, the first baby mentioned in the Bible comes after the fall.
So what Aaron is doing is claiming special revelation to human reproduction prior to the fall as well as special revelation as to what would happen.
John 6:7-9 NLT
[7] Philip replied, "Even if we worked for months, we wouldn't have enough money to feed them!" [8] Then Andrew, Simon Peter's brother, spoke up. [9] "There's a young boy here with five barley loaves and two fish. But what good is that with this huge crowd?"
Like many without enough faith, people see scarce resources and think that there can’t possibly be enough. Even wrote books about peak oil and how we would have to eat each other to survive.
So not only does Aaron claim special revelation, he has a low opinion of God’s creativity and power.
….perhaps you should assign a number and it add to your list of knee jerk no thought replies.....
37818
Well-Known Member
God did according to His eternal purpose. Titus 1:2. God and His plan has no beginning and no end. Psalms 90:2. Proverbs 21:30.View attachment 3362
For those who say that God "looked down the corridors of time"
What was His original plan? To frolic naked in a garden paradise till the world was over populated?
Maybe.
Aaron wants us to accept a scenario where God would allow humans to overpopulate the earth to the point of all land mass being occupied.
Do you think that is a reasonable hypothetical to ponder?
Well, I didn't know, but you're at least consistent with the small god of non-Calvinism.
The commandment to multiply was given before the Fall, Einstein.
Presuming obedience had they persisted in an unfallen state is not citing special revelation.So the answer is He'd just keep making garden space for the nudists.
Now there's some theological prowess, right there.Which, being interpreted, meaneth: Gee, I never really thought it through.
What was the plan? Assuming, as you do, that the Fall was something that happened to it, and not part of the original plan itself.
He wasn't depopulating the earth, he was filling Heaven in eternity... And that other place we don't mention... There is just one minor technicality, he has to come back and get our bodies... That's also part of the plan... Brother Glen
Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
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I'm not a mind reader, and I certainly wouldn't presume to read God's mind.
But I see you've got no problem with being a mind reader.
Oh, and #4.
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