What's Wrong with Younger Pastors'???

[Mexdeaf]

Some do not understand that pastoral work is a calling from the Lord, not something we take upon ourselves. There are many, many times I wish I could have a "normal" job like everyone else and walk out every afternoon and forget the job, or walk out of Friday afternoon and forget it for two whole days.

If it were up to me, I'd be building cabinets or doing construction work instead.

But, "woe to me if I do not preach the Gospel" - compensated or no.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No, I did it because I was commanded to do it. It wasn't optional.

1Co_9:14 In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

Then be happy with your station for Petes sakes & dont criticize men who both work secular jobs & serve as pastors. Perhaps they had a calling as well but to smaller & more intimate churches. Maybe these churches are struggling economically & these "Callings by God" if you will are a struggle for these poor men & their families. I recently saw one of these men write a $5000.00 check to a young woman wanting to go on a mission but did not have the bucks to do it.....this man through his secular job made it possible.

So I dont judge these guys at all....they do the best with what resources they have. But the only value we can bring to people is a Focus.

Now like it or not, a church with a operating budget that includes salaries will always be put under closer scrutiny so your performance will be measured more closely. To say that you will not operate under guidelines that are financial is living in a dream world. To operate in a fashion that tends to judges if a person is a skin flint or a generous giver is from my prospective an arrogant assumption. How do you know what the economic situation of the individual is (in truth you dont)....but you make that judgment call anyway. For example, your opinion of me is soooo off the mark that ....ahhh, never mind.

In closing I wish you well & even agree with much of what you discussed concerning Sunday School. We will not send our children in that direction but teach them ourselves.....thats much more biblical.

 

[webdog]

No, I did it because I was commanded to do it. It wasn't optional.

1Co_9:14 In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

I see no command in 1 Timothy to be an elder. Despite what we are told about some mystical 'call', every Elder is in place due to meeting the requirements, and a desire to be one. Nobody is commanded to be.

 

[Havensdad]

I see no command in 1 Timothy to be an elder. Despite what we are told about some mystical 'call', every Elder is in place due to meeting the requirements, and a desire to be one. Nobody is commanded to be.

Yeah, and where does a desire to do a "noble task" (1 Timothy 3:1) come from?

(Hint: Philippians 2:13).

There is indeed an inward, and outward call to ministry. But I was speaking about the command to make my living by the Gospel. Not the call to BECOME an elder...about the requirements OF the office, not the call TO the office.

 

[Revmitchell]

Let's compare our comfy, corporate model church with the churches found in Asia or the middle east. Which is closer to the biblical model? (Hint...not the one with a nice benefit package)

You don't know what you are talking about. You have no idea what the pay was for Elders in the First Century. It is all speculation in your part. If that is the way you want to treat your pastor then I hope you will always have one who fits the bill.

 

[Revmitchell]

I see no command in 1 Timothy to be an elder. Despite what we are told about some mystical 'call', every Elder is in place due to meeting the requirements, and a desire to be one. Nobody is commanded to be.

You do err because you do not know scripture:


Act 20:28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.

 

[webdog]

You don't know what you are talking about. You have no idea what the pay was for Elders in the First Century. It is all speculation in your part. If that is the way you want to treat your pastor then I hope you will always have one who fits the bill.

Works both ways, does it not? Scripture alludes to elders being cared for in the same manner as the rest of the body...needs met. No speculation whatsoever. I treat my pastor no differently than I treat the woman desiring to watch children in the nursery. If that is somehow viewed as wrong in today's church mentality, I'll gladly admit to being wrong.

What is the MAIN purpose of the church? It appears to be seeing the elders are taken care of first from the many churches I know.

 

[Revmitchell]

What is the MAIN purpose of the church? It appears to be seeing the elders are taken care of first from the many churches I know.

That is just an exaggeration. I will leave you to your misery.

 

[webdog]

You do err because you do not know scripture:


Act 20:28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.

Based on the lack of qualification of many pastors I come across on this board, either the Holy Spirit made a mistake...or people desired to be one when they shouldn't have and got a whole congregation to buy into this mystical 'call to preach'. Clearly that verse is referring to those who both meet the requirement and have the desire.

 

[Revmitchell]

Based on the lack of qualification of many pastors I come across on this board, either the Holy Spirit made a mistake...or people desired to be one when they shouldn't have and got a whole congregation to buy into this mystical 'call to preach'. Clearly that verse is referring to those who both meet the requirement and have the desire.

Yes because clearly the phrase "the Holy Spirit has made you" should be ignored completely.

 

[webdog]

Yes because clearly the phrase "the Holy Spirit has made you" should be ignored completely.

When did you become a determinist?

You left off 'to feed the church'. They weren't made to be elders, the position and those in it were made to feed the church.

'You do err because you don't know the scriptures'

 

[Mexdeaf]

When did you become a determinist?

You left off 'to feed the church'. They weren't made to be elders, the position and those in it were made to feed the church.

'You do err because you don't know the scriptures'

Pastors are "made to be" pastors just as much as Paul was "made to be" an apostle. some people are "made to be" CEO's, and some people are "made to be" burger-flippers.

 

[Revmitchell]

When did you become a determinist?

You left off 'to feed the church'. They weren't made to be elders, the position and those in it were made to feed the church.

'You do err because you don't know the scriptures'

I left off that part because I was emphasizing the call of God On a pastor. I was not emphasizing the duty. It was in response to your pejorative use of the word mystical. I am working to have a reasonable discussion with you but you seem bent on exaggerated claims and just being rude. Maybe you just need to step away from the computer for a while.

 

[webdog]

I left off that part because I was emphasizing the call of God On a pastor. I was not emphasizing the duty. It was in response to your pejorative use of the word mystical. I am working to have a reasonable discussion with you but you seem bent on exaggerated claims and just being rude. Maybe you just need to step away from the computer for a while.

Rude?! I merely quoted YOUR comment you made to me. I've been quite cordial.

Mystical was not meant as a pejorative. It is how I describe something that comes to someone by 'I sense this' or 'I feel God is...'. When pushed to describe what this sensing or feeling is or where it came from, no answer can be given, and its described as a 'God thing'. That's mysterious. I believe God will give the desire based on IF they meet the qualifications and IF the need is there. I believe churches should be raising up these leaders within the church, however most will seek outside resumes to fill this need. If that doesn't scream corporate, not much does.

 

[webdog]

Pastors are "made to be" pastors just as much as Paul was "made to be" an apostle. some people are "made to be" CEO's, and some people are "made to be" burger-flippers.

So God made Paul an apostle. He also made him a murderer of Christians? God made someone to work at Wendy's. He also made them drop out of high school, smoke weed, and live in their parents' basement?

This is the double standard of determinism...God decrees everything...but... :laugh:

 

[Revmitchell]

I believe churches should be raising up these leaders within the church, however most will seek outside resumes to fill this need. If that doesn't scream corporate, not much does.

I believe that as well. However, when they have not done that and there is no one to take the role then they have to go outside the church. It has nothing to do with "corporatism".

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So God made Paul an apostle. He also made him a murderer of Christians? God made someone to work at Wendy's. He also made them drop out of high school, smoke weed, and live in their parents' basement?

This is the double standard of determinism...God decrees everything...but... :laugh:

Not so fast! You are looking at fatalism if your saying God selects ones profession & thats pure heresy.... HE doesnt make robots

 

[Mexdeaf]

So God made Paul an apostle. He also made him a murderer of Christians? God made someone to work at Wendy's. He also made them drop out of high school, smoke weed, and live in their parents' basement?

This is the double standard of determinism...God decrees everything...but... :laugh:

You misinterpret "made to be" as determinism. Does not the Scripture teach that we are given spiritual gifts as the Holy Spirit wills? Some are made to be merciful, some are made to be administrators, teachers, etc.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You misinterpret "made to be" as determinism. Does not the Scripture teach that we are given spiritual gifts as the Holy Spirit wills? Some are made to be merciful, some are made to be administrators, teachers, etc.

Chapter & verse please.

 

[Revmitchell]

Chapter & verse please.

Eph 4:11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
Eph 4:12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,