What's Wrong with Younger Pastors'???

[Revmitchell]

What will happen is that if finances fall short and the church cannot afford to pay a full salary anymore then the church may be forced to get another pastor who is in a position to take a part time salary. Usually they are those who are retired or have some other income already.

Meeting the financial needs of your pastors serves the whole of the congregation.

 

[Revmitchell]

BS.....you care about yourself & your using God as your platform to enrich yourself. This thread was started to smoke out derelicts like you who whine about your having to actually to work for a living.

All pastors work for a living.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I can appreciate both sides to this (while I also don't see what age has to do with it). A pastor doesn't have to necessarily visit someone, but with modern conveniences like texting, email and social media, there is no excuse not to reach out to those who are slipping in their walk even, if they think it's more important to watch football on Sundays (as the example given by HD). Impossible to be a spiritual shepherd to someone you do not contact. If time or size of congregation is an issue, more elders need to be appointed. If not enough giving to support more staff, money allocated to salary needs to be divided. Its actually quite simple. The needs of the whole need to be met over the needs of the pastor.

Agreed..... you & I both know that some personal touch is at times required....and correct, it can be as simple as a 5 minute phone call.

Critical though is to follow up on the conversation action points if there are any. Say your conversing with a pastor & you & he agree to do certain things together or whatever....and there is no follow through. Are you going to trust him? And that in itself is time & perhaps labor allocations? What is the cost of follow up & what value does it have....and is it measurable (maybe even measurable in ROI)

Now, is that kinda like running a business.....maybe & sorry if that offends some people....but:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

All pastors work for a living.

Hopefully efficiently with measurable & favorable results.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

What will happen is that if finances fall short and the church cannot afford to pay a full salary anymore then the church may be forced to get another pastor who is in a position to take a part time salary. Usually they are those who are retired or have some other income already.

Meeting the financial needs of your pastors serves the whole of the congregation.

so lets explore a "worst case scenario" what if the church folds?

 

[Havensdad]

BS.....you care about yourself & your using God as your platform to enrich yourself. This thread was started to smoke out derelicts like you who whine about your having to actually to work for a living.

you know what...grow up & shut up & do your job to the best of your God given capability & stop boring me.

you dont speak for other pastors ....you speak for you. You then go on to degrade them in their endeavors & belittle them as little more than used car salesmen.

You know what....your transparent & you fool no one. Go peddle your crap elsewhere.

Yeah, "enriching" myself on a salary slightly bigger than I would make at McDonalds, after leaving a cushy supervising job, where I made six figures....

You, sir (or madam?) are an interesting individual. You attack people for obeying God. I am speaking for other Pastors, who have left high paying jobs, cushy retirement packages, and places of authority, to come and serve the church, only to be attacked by venomous people like yourself, who do not care about them, or their families, you just want to keep your money in your pocket, so you can buy your next shiny new car.

:tonofbricks:

 

[webdog]

What will happen is that if finances fall short and the church cannot afford to pay a full salary anymore then the church may be forced to get another pastor who is in a position to take a part time salary. Usually they are those who are retired or have some other income already.

Meeting the financial needs of your pastors serves the whole of the congregation.

Where is the salary breakdown of elders found in Scripture? Where is the discrepancy between someone holding a Sr. title compared to Associate. Where are we told the other 2 or 3 should work fulltime secular jobs and volunteer their time? Where is this hierarchy? We can say we don't run the church like a business, but open the finances and it proves different.

Let's compare our comfy, corporate model church with the churches found in Asia or the middle east. Which is closer to the biblical model? (Hint...not the one with a nice benefit package)

 

[webdog]

Yeah, "enriching" myself on a salary slightly bigger than I would make at McDonalds, after leaving a cushy supervising job, where I made six figures....

You, sir (or madam?) are an interesting individual. You attack people for obeying God. I am speaking for other Pastors, who have left high paying jobs, cushy retirement packages, and places of authority, to come and serve the church, only to be attacked by venomous people like yourself, who do not care about them, or their families, you just want to keep your money in your pocket, so you can buy your next shiny new car.

:tonofbricks:

so your accusations should not be considered an attack.

 

[Havensdad]

This thread is seriously off topic.

 

[Mexdeaf]

All pastors work for a living.

This is very, very true. Just as in other fields, there are some who work harder than others. But the laborer is worthy of his hire, and while I am sure there are some that do, no pastor that I know of does this for the money.

Many of us have or are currently working part- or full-time jobs while pastoring. Some like Annsi's husband, left well-compensated secular employment to follow the Lord's call at a pittance of what they made previously.

Like some say, "The pay isn't great, but the retirement plan is out-of-this-world!"

 

[Havensdad]

so your accusations should not be considered an attack.

I don't know about "attacK', but yes, a rebuke. The difference is, that we have clear scriptural commands that we are obeying. There is NOTHING in scripture to support the refusal of support for a pastor/minister. On the contrary, Paul, the apostles, and the other ministers in the NT had their needs fully supplied. Paul even says if they do a good job, they should get paid more!

The only explanation for not wanting to care for full time ministers, is greed. There is not a shred of scripture to back it up.

:tonofbricks:

 

[Havensdad]

This is very, very true. Just as in other fields, there are some who work harder than others. But the laborer is worthy of his hire, and while I am sure there are some that do, no pastor that I know of does this for the money.

Many of us have or are currently working part- or full-time jobs while pastoring. Some like Annsi's husband, left well-compensated secular employment to follow the Lord's call at a pittance of what they made previously.

Like some say, "The pay isn't great, but the retirement plan is out-of-this-world!"

Amen! Good stuff.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yeah, "enriching" myself on a salary slightly bigger than I would make at McDonalds, after leaving a cushy supervising job, where I made six figures....

You, sir (or madam?) are an interesting individual. You attack people for obeying God. I am speaking for other Pastors, who have left high paying jobs, cushy retirement packages, and places of authority, to come and serve the church, only to be attacked by venomous people like yourself, who do not care about them, or their families, you just want to keep your money in your pocket, so you can buy your next shiny new car.

:tonofbricks:

You know what....if you left a cushy job to serve the lord then go do it, who is stopping ya. I didnt ask you to, you did it of your own accord. That was your choice not mine. Conversely I have given away a house & tons of money to support people like you.....generally with wise guy remarks from your type who ASS_UME all the live long day! And you know where that leads! Oh, there you are. :laugh:

 

[webdog]

I don't know about "attacK', but yes, a rebuke. The difference is, that we have clear scriptural commands that we are obeying. There is NOTHING in scripture to support the refusal of support for a pastor/minister. On the contrary, Paul, the apostles, and the other ministers in the NT had their needs fully supplied. Paul even says if they do a good job, they should get paid more!

The only explanation for not wanting to care for full time ministers, is greed. There is not a shred of scripture to back it up.

:tonofbricks:

When does caring for the senior pastor take precedence over the needs of the entire body? Did those in the first church in Acts sell their possessions to care for those in the body with need, or the elders first?

 

[Havensdad]

You know what....if you left a cushy job to serve the lord then go do it, who is stopping ya. I didnt ask you to, you did it of your own accord. That was your choice not mine. Conversely I gave given away a house & tons of money to support people like you.....generally with wise guy remarks from your type who ASS_UME all the live long day! And you know where that leads! Oh, there you are. :laugh:

No, I did it because I was commanded to do it. It wasn't optional.

1Co_9:14 In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Where is the salary breakdown of elders found in Scripture? Where is the discrepancy between someone holding a Sr. title compared to Associate. Where are we told the other 2 or 3 should work fulltime secular jobs and volunteer their time? Where is this hierarchy? We can say we don't run the church like a business, but open the finances and it proves different.

Let's compare our comfy, corporate model church with the churches found in Asia or the middle east. Which is closer to the biblical model? (Hint...not the one with a nice benefit package)

Good stuff!:thumbsup:

 

[Havensdad]

When does caring for the senior pastor take precedence over the needs of the entire body? Did those in the first church in Acts sell their possessions to care for those in the body with need, or the elders first?

We are not talking about a small church that cannot afford to pay. We are talking about someone deliberately deciding not to provide for the elders, the way the scripture commands.

 

[webdog]

We are not talking about a small church that cannot afford to pay. We are talking about someone deliberately deciding not to provide for the elders, the way the scripture commands.

We don't use that command to trump the others. James 2:8 is just as valid. Small or large church, there are those within that are suffering or who cannot obey God's calling and command to missions due to providing for the top elder over anything else.

 

[sag38]

Just yesterday (Labor Day) I received a call from a member. Her brother in law was having surgery to have his hip replaced that very day. I kindly told her to call our prayer chain and have people pray for him and that I would check on them today. Now, she may be upset with me that I did not drop everything and come to the hospital right then. Had he been at death's door and an emergency I would have come. But, it wasn't. I have a home and a family and they come first. With that said I do try to keep up with the congregation. And, one way I do it is to keep my deacons informed. When I get news of a church member who needs attention I contact that member's deacon. Many times a deacon beats me to the hospital. And, many times I don't have to do anything because a deacon has handled the situation. If a deacon gets in over his head or he thinks the situation needs my attention he lets me know. We work together in keeping up with the congregation and meeting their needs.

 

[webdog]

Just yesterday (Labor Day) I received a call from a member. Her brother in law as having surgery to have his hip replaced that very day. I kindly told her to call our prayer chain and have people pray for him and that I would check on them today. Now, she may be upset with me that I did not drop everything and come to the hospital right then. Had he been at death's door and an emergency I would have come. But, it wasn't. I have a home and a family and they come first.

:thumbs: Your family should come first.