What's Wrong with Younger Pastors'???

[JohnnyReb]

Read Exodus 18:17-27 and notice the advice Moses was given. That is how ministry is done.

Jesus taught to make disciples. In making disciples there is room for more.

Point taken but not in the context I was referring. The subject is about pastors and their personal relationships with members. It's hard for one man to appease all members of a body with a large congregation.

Growth is good! But with large growth comes less personal fellowship on a first name basis. For some that doesn't matter, some it does which is why this thread was started. The OP obviously desires his pastor to be more involved with him or her personally. A smaller congregation will help in that situation

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Not about getting paid. Its about being supported in order to put your full attention into gospel proclamation, rather than other pursuits. A person that puts in 40-60 hours supporting his family, cannot possible put the proper amount of preparation into sermons that take 10-15 hours of prep each, public evangelism, prayer with the sick, etc. I understand that sometimes there is no choice, but people that say pastors SHOULD be doing that, are in essence attacking the pastors family, and telling them they are just going to have to suffer....because they will.

As a paid professional, like any other professional, be it a doctor, engineer, lawyer or Indian chief...you have an obligation to your client. Your client is the church. If you are indeed a professional (paid) you are bound to subordinate your interests to those of the client. It is the duty to the client that characterizes the professional.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Point taken but not in the context I was referring. The subject is about pastors and their personal relationships with members. It's hard for one man to appease all members of a body with a large congregation.

Growth is good! But with large growth comes less personal fellowship on a first name basis. For some that doesn't matter, some it does which is why this thread was started. The OP obviously desires his pastor to be more involved with him or her personally. A smaller congregation will help in that situation

Like any other business, if you grow then you hire more staff.

 

[Havensdad]

As a paid professional, like any other professional, be it a doctor, engineer, lawyer or Indian chief...you have an obligation to your client. Your client is the church. If you are indeed a professional (paid) you are bound to subordinate your interests to those of the client. It is the duty to the client that characterizes the professional.

Simply not true. You are assuming the ministry works like a business, which is just not the case.

You cannot argue with the Word of God.

1Co_9:14 In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

When you disobey the Lord's command, you hurt people.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Simply not true. You are assuming the ministry works like a business, which is just not the case.

You cannot argue with the Word of God.

1Co_9:14 In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

When you disobey the Lord's command, you hurt people.

I never assume, It does operate like a business. To deny that is to delude yourself. Actually it operates on a unfair advantage plane.....you have tax free status where my business does not.

 

[Mexdeaf]

No one has mentioned Ephesians 4:11,12.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No one has mentioned Ephesians 4:11,12.

nobody mentioned payroll yet either or accounts receivable / payable..... or books other than the Bible, but they have to be balanced, correct.

I apologize that you consider me rather cut & dry....but I manage through the force of facts & not the force of personality. Bedside manners is no substitute for the right diagnosis.

 

[Havensdad]

I never assume, It does operate like a business. To deny that is to delude yourself. Actually it operates on a unfair advantage plane.....you have tax free status where my business does not.

Maybe YOUR church runs like a business. Ours does not. We do what is commanded, regardless whether it is economically feasible. A business does not. I obey the commands of God, and preach the Word of God, whether the people who attend like it or not. A business tailors what it is doing to suit clientele.

If you run your business like that, I can see why you don't have money to obey the clear command of God and pay your pastor!

Pastors are to get paid. If you can't afford to do that, that's one thing. If you refuse to do it because of a modern anti-church, anti-Christ mindset, you are sinning against the clear command of God and need to repent.

 

[Havensdad]

Also:

Its telling that EVERY SINGLE person in the New Testament who were ministers/missionaries, got paid for doing it. Including Paul, and all of the apostles.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Maybe YOUR church runs like a business. Ours does not. We do what is commanded, regardless whether it is economically feasible. A business does not. I obey the commands of God, and preach the Word of God, whether the people who attend like it or not. A business tailors what it is doing to suit clientele.

If you run your business like that, I can see why you don't have money to obey the clear command of God and pay your pastor!

Pastors are to get paid. If you can't afford to do that, that's one thing. If you refuse to do it because of a modern anti-church, anti-Christ mindset, you are sinning against the clear command of God and need to repent.

Yea OK.....so we will see how you fare. My pastors FYI do it for the pure love of it & they have proven themselves to be successful....they are not concerned with feeding their families because they are very successful economically (they can & do often feed the whole church)... Can you make that claim? But you, LOL....you want to work 40 Hours a week, spend quality time with family & create a vibrant & growing church with limited effort. Heck we all would want that in our lives.....but as John Hausmann used to say in the now ancient TV commercial that displayed a now obsolete work ethic....."THEY DID IT THE OLD FASHIONED WAY, ..... THEY EARNED IT" But thats probably alien to your focus & sensibilities. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Havensdad]

Yea OK.....so we will see how you fare. My pastors FYI do it for the pure love of it & they have proven themselves to be successful....they are not concerned with feeding their families because they are very successful economically (they can & do often feed the whole church)... Can you make that claim? But you, LOL....you want to work 40 Hours a week, spend quality time with family & create a vibrant & growing church with limited effort. Heck we all would want that in our lives.....but as John Hausmann used to say in the now ancient TV commercial that displayed a now obsolete work ethic....."THEY DID IT THE OLD FASHIONED WAY, ..... THEY EARNED IT" But thats probably alien to your focus & sensibilities. :smilewinkgrin:

Yeah, the rest of it don't do it for the love of it.

If you really loved God, you would obey his commands. I take great offense at your "earning it" comment. I would bet money that I work more hours per week than you. I don't "work 40 hours a week." That is ridiculous. try 60-70 hours a week, just on ministry work. Which is why I know for a fact, that if your pastor has a full time job, and a family he IS neglecting one of them. Which is why God commanded that we pay ministers, and why every single minister in the New Testament was paid.

How wicked can you be? "I don't care about you raising your family. I just don't want to have to pay you." "Limited effort?" Tell that to my wife, who often doesn't even see me. Or to the circles under my eyes, that I have from sleeping less than 6 hours a night.

You have no clue what you are talking about. You are standing in direct violation of God's command, but you don't care. All you care about, is that you can keep your money in your pocket...so go, buy another big screen, neglect your pastor's family, and enjoy your American dream...

 

[webdog]

So, you deny scripture, then. It says that the Lord COMMANDS it. Do you not take the Lord's commands seriously?

BTW, I though you were done? LOL.

Was Paul then disobedient to his own words, then?

 

[gb93433]

As a paid professional, like any other professional, be it a doctor, engineer, lawyer or Indian chief...you have an obligation to your client. Your client is the church. If you are indeed a professional (paid) you are bound to subordinate your interests to those of the client. It is the duty to the client that characterizes the professional.

as a contractor my ultimate obligation is to God and under that are those who serve the city to ensure that the codes which apply are met. There have been many times I have refused to do something the client requests because it is unethical and/or may not meet the applicable codes.

The Jews saw that what a craftsman did was one of his ways of worshipping God. When was the last time anyone heard a message on how our work worships God instead of a focus on music?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Was Paul then disobedient to his own words, then?

Web....you may not want to talk to "Mr Sensitive" because his feelings are hurt right now. God forbid anyone question his motives & his direction.....LOL.

 

[USN2Pulpit]

First of all, thanks for including me in the category "younger pastors." At 48, I squeezed into the category, but only barely!

I think each church and pastor are different - and for a wide variety of reasons.

For me - I'm a bi-vocational pastor, so I hope you can guess what my schedule is like. Some things are just impossible for me to do. I would say this: I want to be the kind of pastor that visits everyone and stays up-to-date with everything, but I know I have fallen short there.

I give a lot of my time to crisis situations, but "maintenance" is not as easy. I pray that somehow I can get better.

Just an aside as well: there are always a few that don't really want to be followed up on, and it can be hard to figure them out.

 

[Havensdad]

Was Paul then disobedient to his own words, then?

Not at all. Even in the beginning of his ministry, His needs were fully supplied by the church in Philippi.

Php 4:15 And you Philippians yourselves know that in the beginning of the gospel, when I left Macedonia, no church entered into partnership with me in giving and receiving, except you only.
Php 4:16 Even in Thessalonica you sent me help for my needs once and again.
Php 4:17 Not that I seek the gift, but I seek the fruit that increases to your credit.
Php 4:18 I have received full payment, and more. I am well supplied, having received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent, a fragrant offering, a sacrifice acceptable and pleasing to God.
Php 4:17 Not that I seek the gift, but I seek the fruit that increases to your credit.
Php 4:18 I have received full payment, and more. I am well supplied, having received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent, a fragrant offering, a sacrifice acceptable and pleasing to God.


What him being a "tentmaker" by trade means, we don't know. But what we DO know, is that his needs were "fully" supplied by the church.

 

[Havensdad]

Web....you may not want to talk to "Mr Sensitive" because his feelings are hurt right now. God forbid anyone question his motives & his direction.....LOL.

I don't care about my motives. I DO care about you attacking the church of God, the commands of God, and the families of countless God fearing pastors across the U.S.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

as a contractor my ultimate obligation is to God and under that are those who serve the city to ensure that the codes which apply are met. There have been many times I have refused to do something the client requests because it is unethical and/or may not meet the applicable codes.

Ya know Ive worked jobs since I was 12 YO & Im still active at 56. Generally adveraging 14-16 hours a day for 6 days a week. This Mr Sensitive guy doesnt think that there is honor in work, that he is on a par above us & that working mens families have not suffered for the cause. Id love him to have his wife contact my wife so they could chat a bit.

but back to your post, I have also been pressured to do things which are not ethical & have refused time & again. Intregaty & morality has to go with the job discription of any man or woman serving the Lord. We all have to perform for our employer but performance is more than the bottom line. It is also setting an example. The men that I admire the most in ministry will, like Paul, work all day but also find time for God & family....thats called balance & they are not seeking monetary rewards. Imagine that! :laugh:[/quote]

The Jews saw that what a craftsman did was one of his ways of worshipping God. When was the last time anyone heard a message on how our work worships God instead of a focus on music?

I couldn't tell ya truthfully but there is honor in anything done well & for the glory of God.

I have always believed, and this goes for military, for the boss in an employment situation, or if your a called minister to a ministry, ... Rank does not confer privilege. It does not give power. It imposes responsibility

 

[webdog]

I can appreciate both sides to this (while I also don't see what age has to do with it). A pastor doesn't have to necessarily visit someone, but with modern conveniences like texting, email and social media, there is no excuse not to reach out to those who are slipping in their walk even, if they think it's more important to watch football on Sundays (as the example given by HD). Impossible to be a spiritual shepherd to someone you do not contact. If time or size of congregation is an issue, more elders need to be appointed. If not enough giving to support more staff, money allocated to salary needs to be divided. Its actually quite simple. The needs of the whole need to be met over the needs of the pastor.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I don't care about my motives. I DO care about you attacking the church of God, the commands of God, and the families of countless God fearing pastors across the U.S.

BS.....you care about yourself & your using God as your platform to enrich yourself. This thread was started to smoke out derelicts like you who whine about your having to actually to work for a living.

you know what...grow up & shut up & do your job to the best of your God given capability & stop boring me.

you dont speak for other pastors ....you speak for you. You then go on to degrade them in their endeavors & belittle them as little more than used car salesmen.

You know what....your transparent & you fool no one. Go peddle your crap elsewhere.