What's Wrong with Younger Pastors'???

[Dr. Bob]

I have pastored large, medium and small churches. I busted my backside trying to be all/do all and worked super long hours, neglecting some family time I shouldn't have.

I think the younger (I'm past 65) generation have got a better handle on the concept of a solid work-week and might willingly work 45-50 hours a week but no more. And time off the next week to compensate for long hours now.

Personally, I like that. They will be better husbands and fathers, and better men for God in the long run. They will not suffer the horrific "burn out" rates and destructive behaviors of my generation . . hopefully.

 

[JonC]

This thread reminds me of something kinda ironic and kinda relevant to this thread. I had surgery a couple of years ago. My wife had several (in the hospital for several days up to a week each time – unrelated events and a crazy year). I am thankful for my Sunday school group, their prayers and visits. My pastor never visited, called, messaged, etc. But my former pastor (from another church) checked on us each time.

That bothered me the first couple of times, but then I came to expect it – didn’t think about it until this thread (thanks a lot righteousdede2).

 

[drfuss]

Another factor is that younger pastors grew up in an age of different types of communications. Sitting around talking during a visitation is no longer their way of communicating or fellowship. As older folks, we have learned the only way to communicate with and get a quick response from our children and grandchildren is via texting and Facebook. They think why go visit when you can communicate electronically.

Leave a message on the phone and they may call you back within a day. Send a text and you will probably get a response within a minute or two.

In other words, visitation is not considered necessary and a waste of time by younger people, including pastors.

 

[salzer mtn]

A lot of people want the attention of the pastor because that is all their there for. A lot of peoples sole purpose of wanting the attention of the pastor is to convince him of how good they are. Some people in churches do things for different reasons other than the right reasons. Some people try to buy a good name by money. Some people as I said try to buy the pastor praise by praising the pastor. Some people are there just for fellowship only, to see and be seen. A church can be overly friendly to visitors to the point that it seems they are begging them to attend. People can cross the line in the name of friendly and get into your business. Pastors don't need to chase after people if they stop coming. If the gospel can't keep them there then what can ? The sole purpose should be of anyone that goes to church is to hear from God through the preached word.

 

[JonC]

Of course, there are other purposes beyond hearing from God through the preached word to go to church. Christians are to assemble to strengthen one another, for fellowship and prayer (Acts 2:42). They are to serve one another (Galatians 5:13). They are to praise and give thanks to God (Colossians 3:16).

 

[padredurand]

This thread reminds me of something kinda ironic and kinda relevant to this thread. I had surgery a couple of years ago. My wife had several (in the hospital for several days up to a week each time – unrelated events and a crazy year). I am thankful for my Sunday school group, their prayers and visits. My pastor never visited, called, messaged, etc. But my former pastor (from another church) checked on us each time.

That bothered me the first couple of times, but then I came to expect it – didn’t think about it until this thread (thanks a lot righteousdede2).

Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
James 5:14 KJV

In the case of our church you may get any one of three of us. If you or one of the family call we'll come a runnin' I just can't tell you WHO will be doing the visiting.

In a general sense the pastor probably could've found the time to at least call. That said, the church reached out to you. You were not forgotten by your brothers and sisters in the Lord.

I know that there have been folk in the church that have had surgeries or were sick and didn't tell a soul at church. I find out when I hear-third hand how a member is upset that nobody came to see them when they were sick. I've had folk ask me to pray for them but reserve my visit for after they got home from the hospital.

Personally, if I'm in the hospital I just as soon be left alone. I've had a couple of stints of the endless poke and prod. The last thing I want is a parade of well-wishers. Your prayer is just as effective from across the city as it is at the foot of my bed and I don't have to deal with my hair sticking up on end or those peek-a-boo gowns or any of the other indignities of hospital stays.

 

[JonC]

I’m the same about receiving visitors when I’m sick. When I’m sick, my wife knows just to leave me alone. I’m a grumpy sick.

I think what bothers me is a growing sense of disconnect between the church leadership and its members. I am not saying it is the fault of the pastor, or the leadership as much blame may reside with members who simply will not involve themselves in the affairs of the church. I can guarantee, however, that if I had a personal crisis I’d need to call a former pastor or be willing to wait a week or two to speak with a pastor.

Please take that with a grain of salt. There is something bothering me about our contemporary church (from my experience, I can’t speak for others) and I just can’t put my finger on it. Church seems to me like a program with a set of sub-programs – well performed and edifying – but lacking somehow. I guess we simply don’t have that sense of Christian community This is something that has impressed me with Reformed Baptist churches - looking at them from the outside - (although I don’t know I could get past the name to attend, were there on close). I guess we simply don’t have that sense of Christian community.

 

[preachinjesus]

I think Ned Flanders had the same problems with Rec Lovejoy as expressed in the OP...

 

[righteousdude2]

I hear ya HD, BUT....

Us "younger pastors" have a wife, and kids, that "older" pastors don't have to deal with...and these deserve our time as well.

When I was "chasing" people, visiting the sick, etc., I had a family too! So, I don't see that as a deciding factor, one way or the other! :thumbs:

 

[righteousdude2]

Okay?!?

:thumbsup:

Church attendance ain't rocket science. If the sign says service are Sunday morning at 10:00 am then a responsible Christian person should be there ready to worship. If I have to come banging at your door, stroke your ego and beg you to come to service then it is time for you to consider another church. You are not needed here.

I don't disagree with you, to an extent. However, the enemy is busy working at devouring the sheep, and Jesus left the 99 to go out an seek the 1.

I would always knock on the doors of chronic missing members and probe to find out why they were MIA!

If it was me, or the church, I'd help, if they let me, find them another church! If it was marital or financial or something else, I used my probing visit to find out how best to help them. After all, a pastor is there to help folks grow, and absence without due cause, is a problem no matter how you look at it, and it should and could be something the pastor can do to help that person or family grow.

I have found many people missed due to drugs, alcohol, abuse, etc., and that was also my job, to help one or both parties face their addiction and get them help.

I figured those who were there every Sunday were the ones that needed little hands on other than a good sermon! :saint: Those who missed were the problem children, and it was also my job to do what I could to an extent! :BangHead:

I knew I had to know when to dust the sand from my sandals and move on, but, I knew in my heart, I HAD TO TRY! raying:

Thanks for all who have entered into this discussion, I have enjoyed your views and input!

 

[Havensdad]

When I was "chasing" people, visiting the sick, etc., I had a family too! So, I don't see that as a deciding factor, one way or the other! :thumbs:

Because I am commanded by God to disciple my family. Not a word in the Bible about chasing down people who think football is more important than church.

Like I said: the divorce rate, and burn out rate, of the generation that started treating the church like a business, with customers who had to be chased like a used car salesman looking for a sale, was astronomical.

Follow the duties the Bible gives...not what everyone "thinks" you should be doing.

 

[gb93433]

I am reminded of a time when a church called me and asked if I was interested in pastoring their church. As time went by I noticed that each time it was women who called to ask me questions and discuss my philosophy of ministry. One of the times the lady who called asked me if I visited people. I told her that I did. She told me that was great because the men in the church work so hard that they do not have time. Then I told her that I grew up a few miles north on a dairy farm and we always found time to do what we thought was important. I told her that if the men in the church were not willing to do ministry then they did not need me. I work to train others to do ministry and make disciples. She began to say to me that she thought I was interested in their church and pleaded with me to consider it. I told her to get back to me if the men were willing to do ministry. That was about 15 years ago. Today the church is the same number in a sea of people in an area which has exploded with growth. Yet they remain the same.

 

[Revmitchell]

Pastors should be visiting their people without excuse. Deciding not to visit them on a regular basis comes from a variety of reasons. Visiting your people has nothing to do with chasing anyone down.

Pastors may not be able to get around as much as some would like. But they cannot expect to have any influence in the lives of their church members if they remain at arms length all the time.

Now sometimes the demands from the church can be in conflict with being a godly husband and Father. But neither should that be an excuse for laziness and failing to meet with your people reasonably and regularly. What goes on during, before, and after church services is not near enough.

If people are missing church and I do not already know why then I want to find out. I am not going to assume they are sitting home watching football. Maybe there is something wrong the church can assist with.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Because I am commanded by God to disciple my family. Not a word in the Bible about chasing down people who think football is more important than church.

Like I said: the divorce rate, and burn out rate, of the generation that started treating the church like a business, with customers who had to be chased like a used car salesman looking for a sale, was astronomical.

Follow the duties the Bible gives...not what everyone "thinks" you should be doing.

Out of curiosity...have you ever spoken to any old school Baptists...to do research as to our style of doing things. Brother, I could hook you up big time...especially Texas where we have a significant presence.:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Mexdeaf]

:thumbsup:

Church attendance ain't rocket science. If the sign says service are Sunday morning at 10:00 am then a responsible Christian person should be there ready to worship. If I have to come banging at your door, stroke your ego and beg you to come to service then it is time for you to consider another church. You are not needed here.

:thumbsup::applause:

 

[gb93433]

Pastors should be visiting their people without excuse. Deciding not to visit them on a regular basis comes from a variety of reasons. Visiting your people has nothing to do with chasing anyone down.

Pastors may not be able to get around as much as some would like. But they cannot expect to have any influence in the lives of their church members if they remain at arms length all the time.

Now sometimes the demands from the church can be in conflict with being a godly husband and Father. But neither should that be an excuse for laziness and failing to meet with your people reasonably and regularly. What goes on during, before, and after church services is not near enough.

Shouldn't that be true of every church member? I have found where I live people would much rather meet at a restaurant of coffee shop than at their home. Part of the reason is the crazy work hours they have that are always changing.

 

[Revmitchell]

Shouldn't that be true of every church member?

My view is that the church should be a family. We need to be other than a bunch of people who happen to show up to the same place at the same time to worship. And the pastor will have no influence in that area if he is not meeting with his people regularly. Doing this builds trust, influence, and intimacy.

 

[gb93433]

As a pastor how would you do ministry among people whose work schedules are always changing? The typical schedule would be something like 5 shifts working and can be days or nights. Each shift requires about 15 hours of their time from the time they leave home to catch a bus and then return home. Then they have about two or three days off followed by working about four shifts working days or nights. Then two or three days off followed by working three shifts which can be days or night. Then they have one week off. The typical worker leaves home at 5:30 and return at 8:30. Sometimes they will not see their children during the times they work. Their benefits and pay are excellent. Government and private business jobs cannot compete. In most cases a worker would take a 30-60 percent pay cut to work at a local business and their wives would have to work.

 

[gb93433]

What?.........

People should be visiting others without excuse.

People may not be able to get around as much as some would like. But people cannot expect to have any influence in the lives of church members if they remain at arms length all the time.

Now sometimes the demands from the church can be in conflict with being a godly husband and Father. But neither should that be an excuse for laziness and failing to meet with people reasonably and regularly. What goes on during, before, and after church services is not near enough.

 

[Revmitchell]

As a pastor how would you do ministry among people whose work schedules are always changing? The typical schedule would be something like 5 shifts working and can be days or nights. Each shift requires about 15 hours of their time from the time they leave home to catch a bus and then return home. Then they have about two or three days off followed by working about four shifts working days or nights. Then two or three days off followed by working three shifts which can be days or night. Then they have one week off. The typical worker leaves home at 5:30 and return at 8:30. Sometimes they will not see their children during the times they work. Their benefits and pay are excellent. Government and private business jobs cannot compete. In most cases a worker would take a 30-60 percent pay cut to work at a local business and their wives would have to work.

We need to be finding a way to minister to folks with odd work schedules. Recording Sunday services can be one way. Meeting with them when convenient is another. In some cases you can set up alternate service times for them.