When did John the Baptist Get saved?

Blackbird

John (Elijah) had his head chopped off, but he is coming back as one of the two witnesses during the trib,

Do you think he will be "headless"??

You're trying to place Elijah in the "normal circumstances" of scripture, but God does things outside the "normal", that the scriptures maybe fulfilled,

John/Elijah is one of those "Abnormal" circumstances, as is "MOSES", who died and is the other witnesses during the trib.

 

"And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who are thou? And he confessed and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elijah? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No."---John 1: 19-21

When "quizzed" as to his identity

"I am not the Christ"

When "quizzed" as to his being Elijah

"I am not"

#1 John just "flat out" denies that he was Elijah---for the subject at hand we've been "hashing out"---seems John was pretty certain as to who he was not! Now---if Jesus said that John is Elijah come in the flesh and Elijah is John in the flesh---then John turns around and says---he wasn't Elijah---seems John is calling Jesus a liar!! And God cannot lie!

#2 Some people need to "hone" their exegetical skills. Take a few courses in homoletical/hermanutics.

 

I don't see no need for he remarks but as it is. I do not know why John said that unless it was not time for them to know yet, but he had a reason. His father knew who He was and Jesus said it so it and Jesus cannot lie.

Luke, chapter 1
13": But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.

"14": And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.

"15": For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

"16": And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

"17": And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

 

I know why John said that! Because he was telling the truth!

 

Seems everyone in the Bible says the opposite of you. Jesus, John's father, all the other diciples after Jesus told them. Just leaves you!

Seems to me God wanted someone who was able to make ready a prepared people and baptize His Son, so He prepared John the Baptist for this to begin setting up the plan of Salvation. I don't know why you have a problem with God's plan.

Back to the orginal OP, "when was John saved?"

 

So--when the people asked him if he was Elijah---why would John lie?? Scripture teaches that we are to let our "Yea be yea and our nay be nay" John---here in the scripture I quoted above from Matthew(see posts above)--was letting his yea be his yea and his nay be his nay---according to you, dear friend--and your interpretation of the text---John just bore false witness against his neighbor---he lied


Now--either he's telling the truth--or he lied!

 

So--when the people asked him if he was Elijah---why would John lie?? Scripture teaches that we are to let our "Yea be yea and our nay be nay" John---here in the scripture I quoted above from Matthew(see posts above)--was letting his yea be his yea and his nay be his nay---according to you, dear friend--and your interpretation of the text---John just bore false witness against his neighbor---he lied


Now--either he's telling the truth--or he lied! </font>[/QUOTE]Zec 4:11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?

12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.

14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

Mt 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already,
Mt 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Mt 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.


Re 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

John was what we would call "Reincarnated", same spirit, different Body, Where as "Resurrection" is same spirit, same recognizable body/person.


When John was ask, are you Elijah, he answered no, but did he lie to their question, or did he speak the truth, the Jews were expecting the Elijah who went to heaven in the whirwind, which John was not, so to what they were asking/expecting, John gave a truthful answer.

The Jews were also expecting the Messiah, and question Jesus with the same expectations for the Messiah they had for Elijah.

Joh 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

Lacking "faith", Israel was blinded as too who John/Jesus both were, the church being a mystery to Israel, they were expecting the physical Elijah/Messiah who comes during the trib, not a spiritual version.


Here's the point to all this, Jesus's first coming required "Spiritual vision" to "See/recognize" all the characters/events,

Peter recognized Jesus by Faith through the spirit, but since the Jews didn't have faith in Jesus, they didn't recognize/believe him to be the Messiah, even with all his works, or John to be "Eliajh", regardless of their answers.

The "Law and Prophet",(Moses/Elijah) leadership stop with John/Jesus, spiritual began.

once the "Spiritual leadership" (Holy Ghost/rapture) is gone, they will return for the trib period,

But as you see, the promise to send eliajh has both a "spiritual" and Literal" fulfillment, along with many other prophecies.

Here's a link where you can read more.

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3398.html#000000

 

blackbird;

BB; Maybe God's plan was for Jesus to make it known that John was indeed Elias so you are saying either John lied or the Lord lied, which one you pick? According to your own words one of the following lied. I myself didn't call either one a liar but that is me.

Number 1 = Jesus

Number 2 = John the Baptist

According to you one of them lied would you please pick a number.

 

Neither one of them lied---what I'm trying to drive home is a more concise exegesis of all texts involved

 

Don't hold your breath for this. This would make people examine their preconceived notions.

It's just like Greek. People aren't interested in learning it any more because it would contradict what they already believe. (Also, my Greek teacher once said, "How can I teach anyone Greek when they can't speak English?", which is another problem.)

 

Well Jesus said he was Elias and John said he wasn't which is it?

[ May 17, 2006, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: blackbird ]

 

When expounded upon correctly---Both!

 

So, do we now agree that when Jesus said John was Elias it is true?

 

Elias in the flesh?? The same Elias that went swooping up from the presence of Elisha and into the presence of their King of Kings, Lord of Lords, THE High Priest of Heaven?? The same Elias who met the Prophets of Baal on Carmel and who ran like a scalded dog from that wicked woman, Jezebel??

 

Elias in the Spirit for sure. Jesus actually called him Elias but I will settle for in the Spirit. Also, you did agree that John was saved when he baptized Jesus but yet the blood was not shed as of yet so how was his sins covered with the blood of Christ? You see what you get into when you try to make him something he was not such as a person like you or I. He was sent of God and was great in the eyes of God when he was born, was filled with the Holy Ghost before birth. Surely blackbird you will have to admit this was some kind of a man!

 

But not so great that he need nare be saved

and if you're saying that the spirit that was John's existed with God in Glory before his(John's) conception---that neither!

but allow me to give you the benefit of the doubt here with this question

suppose you are correct(**Suppose doesn't mean you are)

but suppose it was Elijah just for a moment

For Elijah to come down to earth in spirit---and enter into the body of John--would have to mean that Elijah's body that was left in Paradise---was spirit and soulless from that moment up until the moment that John's head was decapitated

your idea sounds like LDS theology--where spirits are stored(reside) in God's presence and enter into a particular "body" when God has that body ready for it to

John's body was his---a product of Zaccarius and Elizabeth

John's spirit/soul was his--a product of Zaccarius and Elizabeth

His mission---in the eyes of God even from his birth---was to preceed the coming Messiah "in the spirit and power of Elijah"

[ May 17, 2006, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: blackbird ]

 

You don't know. You are posting what you think the Scripture means but you do not know. You did say he was saved when he baptized the Lord I would like to know from you how he was saved?

Never mention anything before John's conception but Elias Spirit was before John's conception but John received the Holy Spirit in his mother's womb. Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit. Coincedience?

 

John was saved just like you and I are today

Ephesians 2:8-9 teaches, "For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast."

He didn't "receive" the Holy Spirit in his mother's womb---noone "received" the Holy Spirit until Pentecost---rather--the word implies that he was controlled by the Holy Spirit---directed by the Holy Spirit--driven by the Holy Spirit

 

Who can stay the mighty hand of God. There were souls there that didn't have their white robes until Jesus died.


(Was Elias's body present in the following Scripture?)

KJMatt.17
2": And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

"3": And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

"4": Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.


(How do you explain the following Scripture blackbird.)
KJMatt.17
12": But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

 

Answer me this one

When Jesus was in Bethany at the tomb of Lazarus--both Mary and Martha spoke of a resurrection

Yea, Lord! My brother will live again at the resurrection in the last day

So--we aren't gonna deny a physical resurrection

But heres my question

At that resurrection---when John the Baptist will be "called forth" from the Earth's graveyard and dust---whos spirit will he have?? His own or Elias'??