When did John the Baptist Get saved?

[Me4Him]

Mt 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

You take the average person who has spend their whole life living according to the Old covenant, then attempt to indoctrinate them with the New covenant, it will be more destructive than constructive.

I think God allowed a "transitional period" between the OT and NT for the average person, those who could/should have made the change however will still be held accountable.

The Generation preceeding Jesus birth was gone before the destruction came on the generation who was born with Jesus.

 

[Mel Miller]

Friends,

The following statement is a sample of one's
view who can't directly deal with a question:

Quote:
_____________________________________________
"The Generation preceeding Jesus birth was gone before the destruction came on the generation who was born with Jesus".
---------------------------------------------

What in the world does this statement have to
do with the question of whether or when John
the Baptist was saved?

This statement reflects the contradiction of trying to teach that men are saved by TWO Gospels, one taught by Jesus and another taught by Paul. Me4Him has TWO separate peoples of God, i.e., one before the tribulation and another
during the tribulation. He can't recognize the
TWO are ONE Body/Bride of Christ, the Lamb of
God. They should have separate destinies if he
was consistent.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Salamander]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
I just posted what Jesus and the Scriptures said. I didn't add anything except (God didn't know enough to send Jesus to a real preacher) in response to your post. All the rest is Scripture and if you disagree with the Scripture that is up to you but for me and my house we serve the Lord.

(Which one of the Scriptures do you disagree with?)

It even says "HE" sent him.

To answer you in order:

You added that John could see into men's hearts.

You added that his being filled with the Spirit is equal to salvation.

You added that he is somehow the incarnate Elias.

You added that he was never lost.

I find NONE of what you added in any Scripture.

I believe the Scripture and what it emphatically says, you do not.

John the Baptist coming in the spirit of Elias only means that he came in the same spirit of that prophet, not that he is that prophet, or dontcha think Jesus knows the difference between John and Elijah?

Since you admit that John doubted who Jesus is while in prison, I must ask you wass he also filled with the Spirit at that time? And if you say "yes", then I must ask you if being filled is controlled by the Spirit, since when is the Spirit guilty of causing the evil sin of unbelief??

You can keep playing your little, "Which of the Scriptures is it I don't believe" all you want, but that only means you cannot give a clear representation of what you believe according to the very Scriptures you keep quoting, over and over and over and over.

It may be that you don't understand the difference between being filled and being sealed by the Spirit?

Are you also trying to say you serve the Lord and I do not? You're quite wrong if you do.

You also seem to think you know what God knows concerning John being a preacher sent to baptize Jesus, but you seem to omit the fact that Judas was numbered with the Twelve and that he was sent to betray Jesus.

It may be that you equate baptism to some rite to salvation or that the only way Jesus could fulfill all righteousness was to be baptized by John? I think you forgot that Jesus is God the Son and did NOT have to be baptized at all, but that He was baptized by a preacher to give us the righteous example for all believers to be baptized.

May be this is just too deep theologically speaking and you're only capable of shallow theology?

Your belief on the matter goes against too much of Scriptuere to amintain the Harmony that God, the God of Order, would have His Holy Bible to remain.

 

[Salamander]

Originally posted by Me4Him:
Mt 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

You take the average person who has spend their whole life living according to the Old covenant, then attempt to indoctrinate them with the New covenant, it will be more destructive than constructive.

I think God allowed a "transitional period" between the OT and NT for the average person, those who could/should have made the change however will still be held accountable.

The Generation preceeding Jesus birth was gone before the destruction came on the generation who was born with Jesus.

OK, so you think, but the passage you're using isn't quite the way you see it.

The emphasis is that the wineskin be made all new to hold the new wine. It has to do with the fact only a new creature can be filled with the joy of the Spirit by being filled with the Spirit.

In John's case it is best understood that he preached repentence, but later on, even his disciples had never heard that there be any such thing as receiving the Holy Ghost, but when they received the teaching of the Gospel of Christ, moving beyond the doctrine of repentence they were saved by the reception of the gift of the Holy Ghost which that gift is salvation.

It all comes down to receiving the Gospel by and through the preached word. I have to agree with Mel Miller that yall are presenting two gospels, that makes one of them heresy since we all know the Gospel of Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to salvation.

 

[Brother Bob]

John the Baptist coming in the spirit of Elias only means that he came in the same spirit of that prophet, not that he is that prophet, or dontcha think Jesus knows the difference between John and Elijah?

You added all of the above, which most of it except Scripture is untrue. Jesus said he was that prophet was Jesus bearing false witness?

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by blackbird:
There's only one way to "get the faith"

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

and

How shall they hear without a preacher?

Somewhere---some preacher of righteousness opened the word from the Word(Scripture) directed toward John and that faith came through the preached word of God.

Since Zacharias was one of the ordained Priests of that era---the odds would be great that John's faith came through the preaching of his dad.

Lu 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

We have to be "born again" to be "filled by the spirit", but John didn't need this "Second Birth", by the Spirit, he had it straight from the womb".

John wasn't a "run of the mill" person, he was "Special".

Have you ever heard the song, "I have a birth I can't remember and one I can't forget"???

 

[Brother Bob]

Well, at least we got them going all the way back to Zacharias and John as a child. If we continue on maybe we have some converts. I think we already do have a couple for now they are saying they had faith in Christ before He was born. At least it is a start.

 

[Me4Him]

I don't think most people realize that all this "stuff of the world" mystics, reincarnation, Hindu, Buddist, Sun worship are all "preversions" of Biblical truths,

Neither man/Satan has ever had an "original Idea", they just take one of God's ideas and "twist it around" until the "truth" (Jesus) is twisted out of it, but every belief in the world is rooted in the scripture.

Egypt worshipped the natural "SUN" that "lights the world",

Rather than the "SON", the Spiritual "Light of the world".

Ro 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the "creature" (natural things/Satan) more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

 

[Salamander]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
John the Baptist coming in the spirit of Elias only means that he came in the same spirit of that prophet, not that he is that prophet, or dontcha think Jesus knows the difference between John and Elijah?

You added all of the above, which most of it except Scripture is untrue. Jesus said he was that prophet was Jesus bearing false witness?

Uh, no wonder you believe what you do, you cannot discern what the Spirit sayeth.

Jesus said that John is that prophet who came in the spirit of Elias, not as you demand that he was actually Elias.

If as you keep repeating, and it's not, then Elias/Elijah would never been in the case of doubting Jesus being the Messaih while he was in prison, he would have always known.

Now, what did I add.

 

[Salamander]

We have to be "born again" to be "filled by the spirit", but John didn't need this "Second Birth", by the Spirit, he had it straight from the womb".

Ok, Scripture please?

If speaking the manifold wisdom of God as He inspires the person to speak, (in an understandable language directed to the hearer), then Baalim's donkey is "born again".

 

[Salamander]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
Well, at least we got them going all the way back to Zacharias and John as a child. If we continue on maybe we have some converts. I think we already do have a couple for now they are saying they had faith in Christ before He was born. At least it is a start.

Too late Bob, Jesus already converted me, I cannot, nor will not, be your convert.

You mock the Word of God. The Messiah's coming was faith in God's Provision of His Christ.

I see you will not answer my question, so I'll ask it again: Was John the Baptist "filled with the Spirit" while he doubted who Jesus was while in prison?

The answer is NO! One is NOT filled with the Spirit and doubting who Jesus is. Therefore, being filled with the Spirit is not the same as salvation.

Now, one more question: was John a man or not?

 

[Salamander]

Ro 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the "creature" (natural things/Satan) more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Uh it seems more like yall are worshipping John the Baptist and have a total disregard for Scripture.

I see John doubting in prison, definite evidence of him not being filled with the Spirit. I also see where he received the words of Jesus and never doubted again, but went to the choppingblock secure in his belief.

I've also witnessed many a lost preacher, or at least one who wasn't right with God, lead quite a few people to the Lord.

Your equating John being filled with salvation is borderline heresy.

 

[Brother Bob]

You are denying the Scripture is borderline heresy!!

(The following is the Holy Scripture and what God said about John the Baptist.)

KJMatt.17

"10": And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?

"11": And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

"12": But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

"13": Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.


John, chapter 1
"32": And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

"33": And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

"34": And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Luke, chapter 1
13": But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.

"14": And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.

"15": For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

"16": And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

"17": And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

 

[Brother Bob]

Oh, by the way Jesus did say Elias had come.
"12": But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

"13": Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.


According to blackbird's quote even he believes that John was saved when he baptized the Lord.


quote:
Originally posted by blackbird:
There's only one way to "get the faith"

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

and

How shall they hear without a preacher?

Somewhere---some preacher of righteousness opened the word from the Word(Scripture) directed toward John and that faith came through the preached word of God.

Since Zacharias was one of the ordained Priests of that era---the odds would be great that John's faith came through the preaching of his dad.

[ May 16, 2006, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: Brother Bob ]

 

[Scott J]

More than likely John was saved under the old economy. However he lived during the transition and got to see the fulfillment of his faith in the coming Messiah.

 

[Brother Bob]

More than likely....Somewhere---some preacher.

Why not just accept the word of the Lord?

"14": And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.

"15": For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

He shall be great in the sight of the Lord at his birth, accept it, it is the word of God.

 

[blackbird]

Six months before the birth of the Lord Jesus Christ---Elizabeth gave birth to John

Zaccarius told the crowd around him "His name will be John"----not Elias---not Elijah---John!!

John was the product of a fallen race into sin---cursed by Adam's fall---and was in need of salvation.

Brother Bob---if you read my posts --- you will note that I believe that John---at some point in his life---repented of his sins and received by faith the truth preached unto him concerning the coming Messiah.

There was a 30 year time span between John's birth and the day he dipped Jesus in River Jordan. Somewhere inbetween the time he dipped Jesus and his birth---he had a "born again" experience!

John was "great in the sight of the Lord from his birth"---thats true---I'm not denying that---but if you read through the book of Judges you will note that the Angel of the Lord called Gideon a "mighty man of valor"----long before Gideon even picked up a two edged sword!

Samuel was going to be used by God---even from his mother's womb

Cyrus was a man called upon to rescue the people of Israel---and he was as "lost as a Billy Goat"---but yet God used him.

 

[Brother Bob]

blackbird; That is exactly what I said that you had said. Nothing more and nothing less.


Zaccarius told the crowd around him "His name will be John"----not Elias---not Elijah---John!!

(But Jesus called him Elias, do you have a problem with that?)

 

[blackbird]

But if he were Elias in the flesh---he should not have doubted who Jesus was while he was stuffed up in Herod's prison like an Eagle in a Canary cage----what was Elias doing doubting???

What you're saying is----you are saying that John 3:16 has no application in the life of John---what Jesus told Nicodemus---was irrelivant to John.

What the Apostle Paul said in Romans 3:23 and in Romans 6:23 did not apply to John?

answer please---is that what you're saying???

 

[Brother Bob]

23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Apparently that is what you are saying if he was saved when he baptized Jesus and I do think that is what you said.

You keep asking me if he were Elias but I am not the one to ask, Ask Jesus for He said he was.

Did he doubt in prison, you said he did not me. He was inquiring when he heard about the doings of the Lord if it was really the Lord doing it for he was locked in prison.

He already had the Holy Ghost, He already was great in the eyes of God from birth, I am saying John the Baptist was not like you or I but was a special person sent to make ready a prepared people for the coming of the Lord. Notice, make ready a prepared people, if he still had to be saved by Jesus then he was in no condition to make ready a prepared people. If he was already great in the eyes of God and sent by God himself, Yes I say he was already saved and had a sinful body but had not sinned, unless he sinned before receiveing the Holy Ghost in his mothers womb. Don't know how that could be. You will not accept the words of the Lord himself. Don't lay it on me, lay it on the Lord for that is what He told me.

Why?? did the Lord say; none greater than John the Baptist had ever been born of woman and there were two who went to Heaven I know who did not die, so why is it so great a thing for another to be born that way. If two went to Heaven without dying and a greater one than they was born now.

I have to go but will respond when I get back.