When did you Receive The Sin nature?

[Winman]

The man is a base runner in a baseball game.

We have a winner folks!

What is the point? Our minds can be misled and conditioned. Most folks immediately think of a house when they hear the word "home". Once they do this, it is very unlikely they will solve the riddle.

Well, it is the same with scripture. If you ask a Calvinist to prove regeneration precedes faith, they will present scripture that does not mention faith at all, because others have taught them it does, like Eph 2:1. This verse does not say one word about regeneration preceding faith, in fact it doesn't mention faith at all, yet you will see Calvinists present this verse as proof that regeneration precedes faith over and over again. Their mind has been falsely conditioned to see faith in this verse when it is not there. Once a person's mind is falsely conditioned like this, it is often difficult to escape, just like the word "home" in the riddle I gave misleads a person's mind and prevents them from solving this riddle.

There is not one verse in all of scripture that says regeneration precedes faith, although Calvinists believe there are.

To the contrary, there are many verses that directly show faith always precedes regeneration.

So, who do you believe, R. C. Sproul, or the word of God?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

What do you mean it's testimony? If you cannot back it up with scripture, you cannot make it doctrine!

There is no stalemate. You lose.

OK....I will go slow for you now......think about it for a while ....... people testified all throughout history (Paul, Augustine, Guy Frederecks, & even I). That it happened to us that way. Right!

BTW....It already is doctrine (sorry to break it to you):laugh:

And my question for you is.....you think this is a game?

Take some time & think about it.....I have to take the dog for a walk. Good Luck! :tongue3:

 

[freeatlast]

Not every argument in theology is backed up by a specific Bible quote. I believe sin enters the soul of man somewhere between its 6th month and actual birth; a period when that infant can survive independent of the mother.

Scripturally, we can only read that "man is born in sin and trespasses..." We incorporate this thought into theological thought for consistency."

Cheers,

Jim

Jim we bang heads sometimes but this is an honest question and I am not trying to argue your point, just curious. Would your theory about the time line of sin entering the unborn change over periods of time depending the ability of the medical world to keep the infant alive out side the mother through technology?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

We have a winner folks!

What is the point? Our minds can be misled and conditioned. Most folks immediately think of a house when they hear the word "home". Once they do this, it is very unlikely they will solve the riddle.

Well, it is the same with scripture. If you ask a Calvinist to prove regeneration precedes faith, they will present scripture that does not mention faith at all, because others have taught them it does, like Eph 2:1. This verse does not say one word about regeneration preceding faith, in fact it doesn't mention faith at all, yet you will see Calvinists present this verse as proof that regeneration precedes faith over and over again. Their mind has been falsely conditioned to see faith in this verse when it is not there. Once a person's mind is falsely conditioned like this, it is often difficult to escape, just like the word "home" in the riddle I gave misleads a person's mind and prevents them from solving this riddle.

There is not one verse in all of scripture that says regeneration precedes faith, although Calvinists believe there are.

To the contrary, there are many verses that directly show faith always precedes regeneration.

So, who do you believe, R. C. Sproul, or the word of God?

If your referring to me specifically, your way off base....are you?

 

[Amy.G]

OK....I will go slow for you now......think about it for a while ....... people testified all throughout history (Paul, Augustine, Guy Frederecks, & even I). That it happened to us that way. Right!

Then please give me Paul's words. Where did he say regeneration preceeds faith?????

BTW....It already is doctrine (sorry to break it to you):laugh:

Yeah so? The Perpetual Virginity of Mary is a doctrine too.

And my question for you is.....you think this is a game?

Uh no. You brought the word "stalemate" into the discussion.

Take some time & think about it.....I have to take the dog for a walk. Good Luck! :tongue3:

I've already spent plenty of time thinking, studying, and praying about it. I can also post plenty of verses to back up my beliefs. :laugh:

Enjoy your walk.

 

[Winman]

If your referring to me specifically, your way off base....are you?

Well, I have no idea who your Reformed influences are, I only mentioned Sproul because he is well known for writing that regeneration precedes faith. He of course was repeating what he had been taught.

But one thing I know, you do not have one verse of scripture to support this, while there are many scriptures that refute it like Jn 20:31, Jn 7:39, Gal 3:2, and Eph 1:13. I could probably show a dozen more if I had to.

 

[Amy.G]

Not every argument in theology is backed up by a specific Bible quote. I believe sin enters the soul of man somewhere between its 6th month and actual birth; a period when that infant can survive independent of the mother.


Cheers,

Jim

And what you "believe" isn't backed up with anything. It's simply your opinion, which will have to change when medical science is able to keep a baby alive outside the womb when only a few weeks old.

 

[Iconoclast]

Winman,

And all you have to do is show me scripture that shows a person is regenerated before faith. Problem is, there is not even one single verse in all the scriptures that says this.

Yes...it is right next to the verse that says faith precedes regeneration, or the verse that says we are saved....because of inherent faith///keep looking:laugh:

 

[Jim1999]

quote: Would your theory about the time line of sin entering the unborn change over periods of time depending the ability of the medical world to keep the infant alive out side the mother through technology?
-----------------------------------------------------

There is always that possibility of changing one's thinking with a medical change in opinion.

This thought agrees with regeneration preceeding the gift of faith, and God saving whom He pleases, such as infants dying before receiving Jesus by choice. Or, as some apply the spurious "age of responsibility , or understanding".

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Winman]

Winman,



Yes...it is right next to the verse that says faith precedes regeneration, or the verse that says we are saved....because of inherent faith///keep looking:laugh:

Jn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believeing ye might have life through his name.

Why did John write his gospel? So that we MIGHT BELIEVE. No regeneration mentioned here.

And what does John say believeing brings? LIFE.

Regeneration means to be made alive again. You can't be regenerated and be dead. But the scriptures show faith precedes life. Therefore you cannot have regeneration unless you first believe.

Jn 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believeth thou this?

Well, do you?

 

[freeatlast]

Jn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believeing ye might have life through his name.

Why did John write his gospel? So that we MIGHT BELIEVE. No regeneration mentioned here.

And what does say believeing brings? LIFE.

Regeneration means to be made alive again. You can't be regenerated and be dead. But the scriptures show faith precedes life. Therefore you cannot have regeneration unless you first believe.

Jn 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believeth thou this?

Well, do you?

But aren't we renewed or regenerated through the word of God?

 

[Amy.G]

Regeneration means to be made alive again. You can't be regenerated and be dead.

To add to this, since when does God give life to an unbeliever?

 

[Herald]

To add to this, since when does God give life to an unbeliever?

Amy, never. But under the Calvinist schema regeneration is the new birth. It's just that we believe the bible teaches an order: regeneration and then faith.

 

[Herald]

But aren't we renewed or regenerated through the word of God?

We're regenerated by the Spirit of God, using the Word of God as the means.

 

[Amy.G]

Amy, never. But under the Calvinist schema regeneration is the new birth. It's just that we believe the bible teaches an order: regeneration and then faith.

I know. But where is your scripture to prove it?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well, I have no idea who your Reformed influences are, I only mentioned Sproul because he is well known for writing that regeneration precedes faith. He of course was repeating what he had been taught.

But one thing I know, you do not have one verse of scripture to support this, while there are many scriptures that refute it like Jn 20:31, Jn 7:39, Gal 3:2, and Eph 1:13. I could probably show a dozen more if I had to.

I dont need to.....again I have a very fresh salvation testimony Ive given you twice before & we discussed it at that point.....again I was a very prolific sinner for 54 years with no intentions of changing....were it not for intervention of the HS, I would not have ever come to Christ. No belief system, no belief.....in fact an enemy.

I will stand by that. Any biblical learning is 17 months of accelerated reading of Bible & I will admit "Calvinistic Theologians". Prior to that, I could have cared less. My only true influence though is the Holy Spirit.....not you, not Sproll, not whomever. And why do I lean toward Calvinism? Well it now makes more since to me from a salvation perspective, having experienced it 1st hand.

 

[Herald]

I know. But where is your scripture to prove it?

Amy, with all due respect, if you haven't been convinced by the biblical case I made earlier you're not going to be convinced now. There reaches a point in these discussion where it's each side preaching to their respective choirs. If we keep beating this poor dead horse he won't look like a horse any longer.

 

[Winman]

But aren't we renewed or regenerated through the word of God?

Yes, when you believe it.

Jn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, the hour is coming, and now is, when THE DEAD shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Calvinism says the spiritually dead are not able to be willing to listen to the word of God, but Jesus says they can, and those that hear SHALL live. The dead have to hear, and only then shall they have life.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I've already spent plenty of time thinking, studying, and praying about it. I can also post plenty of verses to back up my beliefs. :laugh:

Enjoy your walk.

Thanks....than what are you waiting for.....post them.

 

[Herald]

You gotta love it. Both sides are basically saying, "You haven't proven it from the bible and I have."