Where Does Faith Come From?

[Gup20]

With respect, if you start with the assumption that the sinner is not totally depraved and not totally unable (spiritually), then faith is something the sinner possesses independent from God. However, if the sinner is spiritually dead, he is also totally unable to exercise saving faith apart from God granting him the ability to do so through regeneration.

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Ephesians 1:13-14 (NASB) 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Clearly indwelling comes AFTER faith, not before.

 

[1689Dave]

Ephesians 1:13-14 (NASB) 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Clearly indwelling comes AFTER faith, not before.

= believing by grace is permanent.

 

[Gup20]

Faith originates from John 6:44

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.”

Why?

Those who quote John 6:44 never read on to John 6:64-65 to see WHY they cannot come, and why they are not drawn.

John 6:64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

Why were they not granted? Because they did not believe. It does not say they did not believe because they were not granted, it says the opposite - they were not granted to come BECAUSE they did not believe.

 

[Gup20]

= believing by grace is permanent.

I’m not sure I understand what your saying.

 

[1689Dave]

I’m not sure I understand what your saying.

Faith is lasting. = sealed by the Holy Spirit

 

[SovereignGrace]

Amen! Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe and we will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18), saving faith in Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us (John 6:44) and enables us/it has been granted from the Father (John 6:65), we would NEVER come to believe/place saving faith in Christ all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose Christ, we must choose Him. The impulse to faith in Christ comes from God.

My friend, you have just given the perfect depiction of prevenient grace. However, what you have posted, in my opinion, is wrong.

Please allow me to elaborate. The word used for draw is in John 6:44 is helko(pronounced hel-Koo-o), and it means to lead, impel, to literally drag off. It is used in John 18:10 when Peter drew his sword, and in John 21:11 when Peter drew the net to shore. It’s also found in Acts of the Apostles 16:19 when they drew Paul and Silas into the marketplace. Also in Acts of the Apostles 21:30 when they drew Peter out of the temple. In each instance, it denotes an effectual drawing, which is what literally to drag off means. Not that He draws us kicking and screaming, but that He effectually draws us to Himself. He draws, we come, it’s just that simple.

Now, you said it is up to us to choose, so you put the onus of salvation upon man’s ability, or inability, to choose Him. God draws, but man must choose to come, or not. In no way does helko promote that idea. If God is drawing two mean equally, if one chooses to come, they’re saved. If the other chooses not to, he won’t be saved. The reason why the one isn’t saved, is not because God didn’t try to draw him, but it was his refusal to come. So it was the one who chose to come who is saved, because he chose to come. The onus of his salvation wasn’t based on God’s drawing him, because the other guy was equally drawn but refused, but because he chose to do what the other didn’t.

Plus, God doesn’t just call, but hunts His sheep down, picks them up and puts them into the sheep pen. Please read Matthew 18:12-14, with careful attention to the last sentence and compare that to 2 Peter 3:9.

“What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.[Matthew 18:12-14]

The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.[2 Peter 3:9]

In both places, it speaks to the fact God is not willing any of His sheep perish. Much so, that He hunts them down, quickens them, gives them the gifts of faith and repentance, and they are saved.

I pray you consider this post with some deep prayer and study.

Thank you for reading this post, my Brother.

 

[Van]

faith - it is the gift of God. That is a direct quote. Do you deny Scripture?

Yet another waste of electrons. What the verse teaches is crystal, salvation is the gift of God. And salvation is obtained "through faith." Likewise our election for salvation is obtained "through faith." So we had faith God credited as righteousness as a basis of our election for salvation.

 

[Gup20]

Faith is lasting. = sealed by the Holy Spirit

Hebrews 10:35-39 (NASB) 35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised. 37 FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY. 38 BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM. 39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

Why would Hebrews warn against shrinking back from faith if it were not possible?

 

[1689Dave]

Hebrews 10:35-39 (NASB) 35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised. 37 FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY. 38 BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM. 39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

Why would Hebrews warn against shrinking back from faith if it were not possible?

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

 

[Gup20]

Yet another waste of electrons. What the verse teaches is crystal, salvation is the gift of God. And salvation is obtained "through faith." Likewise our election for salvation is obtained "through faith." So we had faith God credited as righteousness as a basis of our election for salvation.

I agree with Van on this point.

Ephesians 2:8 (NASB) For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

It is like saying “by the fireman you were saved through his axe; and that not of yourself, it was a public service.”

It would be like saying the axed saved & was the public servant. No, the subject of the sentence Is the fireman. The two supporting clauses of the axe & the public service relate to the subject, not each other.

 

[th1bill]

So many mistakes. And so easily made!


The Bible is a collection of The Literary Works of Our Elohim as He inspired His Prophets and Scribes to record His Words describing His Works. There are issues that must be dealt with while understanding the Truth of the Word of our Elohim.



First, all Scripture from, “In the beginning,,,” through the very last word of Revelation 22 is the Work of Yashuah ha’Mashiah, a.k.a. Jesus. Please read John 1:1-5. In Hermeneutics we learn that no one scripture, collection of scripture nor, even, passage of scripture can ever be properly nor completely uderstood without te light of all scripture shinning on it.



With this knowledge and the seeking after the Face of YHWH through accepting the Spirit of Ruach and, in doing so giving yourself in full submission to the Perfect Will of YHWH. Read 1Pet. 5 paying close attention to verse 16.



The Scriptures were neither given nor recorded with the address system they are now presented in and we must learn that studying the scriptures is one continuous effort and the address system, though useful to remember where we left off, is the most useful toll man has ever constructed and then handed over to and, so, successfully used by Satan to destroy the message of our Father to and for us.

 

[atpollard]

Why?

Those who quote John 6:44 never read on to John 6:64-65 to see WHY they cannot come, and why they are not drawn.

John 6:64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

Why were they not granted? Because they did not believe. It does not say they did not believe because they were not granted, it says the opposite - they were not granted to come BECAUSE they did not believe.

That was not the question I was answering, so I saw no need to answer a question that was not being asked. The question was “Where do I believe faith comes from?” To which I answered the DRAWING of the FATHER, because that IS where I believe faith comes from.

To address YOUR request for a verse saying they did not believe BECAUSE they were not granted to come, it does explicitly state that in this verse ...

[Jhn 10:26 NASB] 26 "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.

I will leave it yo you to search the context to find who gave those sheep to Jesus to see the parallel.

 

[atpollard]

Sorry, that passage says grace is a the gift & faith is the means to acquiring the gift of grace.

[Eph 2:8 NASB] 8 For by grace [feminine] you have been saved [masculine] through faith [feminine]; and that [neuter] not of yourselves, [it is] the gift [neuter] of God;
“Grace” is a [feminine noun] and “gift” and “that” are [neuter], so grace alone cannot be the gift according to the rules of Greek grammar.

 

[atpollard]

Yet another waste of electrons. What the verse teaches is crystal, salvation is the gift of God. And salvation is obtained "through faith." Likewise our election for salvation is obtained "through faith." So we had faith God credited as righteousness as a basis of our election for salvation.

In Ephesians 2:8, “Saved” is a [masculine] noun and “it”, “that” and “gift” are all [neuter] so they cannot refer to “saved” (the gender of nouns matches in Greek grammar so you know which words modify which other words. English uses word order, but Greek uses word gender).

 

[JonC]

Sorry, that passage says grace is a the gift & faith is the means to acquiring the gift of grace.

The "gift" is salvation. God's work of salvation is this grace.

"It (the gift of God/ grace) is a gift of God (grace) does not make sense. "Faith" does not make sense either (given the whole passage), but may be included.

 

[Mr. Davis]

Faith isn't something that is "worked-up" by an individual.

 

[Reformed1689]

Yet another waste of electrons. What the verse teaches is crystal, salvation is the gift of God. And salvation is obtained "through faith." Likewise our election for salvation is obtained "through faith." So we had faith God credited as righteousness as a basis of our election for salvation.

If you had to do something on your own to get credit for it then salvation is no longer a gift. It is a payment. Faith and grace is the gift.

 

[Reformed1689]

Why were they not granted? Because they did not believe.

This is the most absurd reading of this verse. They were not granted because the Father did not choose them.

 

[kyredneck]

saving faith

Where is that term found in the scriptures? You 'Reformed types' consistently ADD to the scripture.

 

[kyredneck]

Where does faith come from?

15 He saith unto them, But who say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jonah: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father who is in heaven. Mt 16