Where does God's Wrath Go?

[Eternally Grateful]

Quite right. I think it may be helpful to think of the prodigal son, although it is dangerous to press the analogy too far. The younger son was 'dead' (Luke 15:32) - presumably in trespasses and sins - but his father still loved him for he was constantly looking out for him (v.20). But he was not restored to the family (v.22) until he repented and returned (V.22). His father could have sent him the robe, ring and sandals in the post along with a food voucher for the fattened calf, but he didn't. Although the son was loved, he was not restored until he came home.

I see it this way

the son was dead (as far as being blessed by the father)

but he was still the father's son. That never stopped.

When he came back. The father forgave him already. and he was restored to followship (he again was receiving his fathers blessings)

 

[Ben1445]

Quite right. I think it may be helpful to think of the prodigal son, although it is dangerous to press the analogy too far. The younger son was 'dead' (Luke 15:32) - presumably in trespasses and sins - but his father still loved him for he was constantly looking out for him (v.20). But he was not restored to the family (v.22) until he repented and returned (V.22). His father could have sent him the robe, ring and sandals in the post along with a food voucher for the fattened calf, but he didn't. Although the son was loved, he was not restored until he came home.

No real stretches to the analogy when it is made correctly. Paul said that we are the offspring of God. If God made us all and the people that Paul spoke to were not born again and we can see clearly that they all would not.
Because God is still the giver of life and none come into being without Him, we are still the offspring of God. In our physical lost state we are still able to be called the offspring of God though eternity will not hold that same distinction.

 

[JonC]

I thnk you'll find that there are. I tried to explain so simply that even a half-wit could understand, but obviously not. Sorry!

If there are in your "translation" you have not mentioned them.

What you have posted in terms of Scripture simply states we were once dead in our trespasses. Your theory rejects God's Word where God (through Paul and Peter) tells us that the elect are those who are alive spiritually and believe.

I know you read that into the passages and I pity you for it. I did the same. The difference is when faced with that fact rather than doubling down I went to Scripture. Like I said, I was on the cusp of being carried away by the philosophy that now holds you. God's warning was not wasted words.

You serve as a warning to others. I do not post to persuade you to return to God's Word because I know that would be wasted time. When I believed as you the me today could not have persuaded the me yesterday (it took God bringing me back to His Word). I was not yet carried away, but I was approaching that point. That God returned me to the faith is evidence of my salvation.

So you are here as a warning to other members and those who may pass by.

On that day many will say "Lord, Lord" only to hear "I never knew you". That shoukd cause all of us pause. One obviously can be a Calvinist and a Christian. We all hold vain philosophies and understandings. But we have to identify them and be very careful how we hold them because these are dangerous things (they are left overs of the flesh, the old man, the human condition in this life as well see dimly as through a glass).


For others - as this interaction is intended:

Consider @Martin Marprelate discernment.

God says we (if numbered among the elect) were once dead in our sins.
God says we were chosen in Christ from the foundation of the world.
God says Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
God equates "elect" as being alive Spiritually, Christ living in us, believing in Him.

@Martin Marprelate genuinely reads those passages as God saying many of the elect are dead in their sins, elected to be in Christ. Not chosen in Christ but elected ti be in Christ.

My point is a warning. You see an ink blot and are told it is a bat. You will struggle for a whike to see the blot for what it really is. What if you just give yourself over? Then there is no ink blot, only a bat and you have been carried away from reality. Lean not on your only understanding but on every word from God.

I believe there comes a time when those who have a type of cognitive acceptance of Christ repent (of their sins, of their understandings, of themselves) and truely believe, or they reject the faith, or they cling to vain philosophies and are carried away from the faith.

The first group are numbered among the elect, called children of God. They are chosen in Christ, but they were once dead in sin.

The second group hear but ultimately just leave the faith all together. They were never saved and they are fine with that because they do not believe anyway

The third group is what God warns us often about. These believe in a way but cling to their own understanding. They have not turned to God but instead turn towards God as long as He is what they want Him to be. They are carried away by philosophies and will hear "I never knew you".

That is why this thread is so important. How far can we go before we are "carried away"? I have no idea. Maybe, then, it would be better not to go there at all and rather than leaning on our own understanding we lean on every word that comes from God.

 

[JonC]

but we are evil, in that we have failed to meet Gods standard.

Hence we have stored up Gods wrath against us. but that wrath was removed.

where did it go. it is a great question.

also. I think we use the term wrath in a different way. A judge who condemned a murderer to death is not putting his wrath on that person. he is passing judgment., So Gods wrath is literally Gods judgment.

You are assuming that we remain evil when "the day of wrath" comes.

Scripture addresses this.

We are being conformed into the image of Christ.
We have been made new creations in Christ.
God removes our old heart, our old spirit.
God gives us a new heart and spirit.
God puts His Spirit in us.

On the day of wrath if you are wicked then you will experience the Second Death.

If you are a new creation in Christ, having died to the flesh and been made alive in the Spirit there is no condemnation.

"Where did God's wrath go" is really an ignorant question because wrath is not a material thing.

When you are happily building a project and hit your thumb with a hammer, whete did your happiness go? Dude you put it in your pocket and pull out your anger?

God's wrath is against the wicked. It will be expressed on "the day of wrath". Nothing will change this. If you are wicked it would behove you to be recreated in the image of Christ.

 

[Brightfame52]

Lol...you think so?

I know so

 

[Brightfame52]

But nonetheless these Ephesians were 'children (NIV 'objects') of wrath

Even though spiritually lost, and had a nature worthy of wrath, they were never actually under Gods wrath.

So it is entirely possible to be elect yet lost.

Yes

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are assuming that we remain evil when "the day of wrath" comes.

No, I am assuming that all have sinned and fall short of Gods glory

If your not a child of God. you are by practice evil.

Scripture addresses this.

We are being conformed into the image of Christ.
We have been made new creations in Christ.
God removes our old heart, our old spirit.
God gives us a new heart and spirit.
God puts His Spirit in us.

On the day of wrath if you are wicked then you will experience the Second Death.

If you are a new creation in Christ, having died to the flesh and been made alive in the Spirit there is no condemnation.

"Where did God's wrath go" is really an ignorant question because wrath is not a material thing.

When you are happily building a project and hit your thumb with a hammer, whete did your happiness go? Dude you put it in your pocket and pull out your anger?

God's wrath is against the wicked. It will be expressed on "the day of wrath". Nothing will change this. If you are wicked it would behove you to be recreated in the image of Christ.

We have been given the righteousness of Christ, So when God looks at us he does not see our sin, he sees his sons righteousness.

Apart from Gods righteousness being imputed to you. You are in fact evil

Gods wrath (again I like the term judgment better) against you has to go somewhere..

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Even though spiritually lost, and had a nature worthy of wrath, they were never actually under Gods wrath.

That depends on how one interprets 'by nature, children of wrath.'
Isaiah 12:1. 'On that day you will say: O LORD, I will praise you; though You were angry with me, Your anger is turned away, and You comfort me."'

 

[JonC]

No, I am assuming that all have sinned and fall short of Gods glory

If your not a child of God. you are by practice evil.

We have been given the righteousness of Christ, So when God looks at us he does not see our sin, he sees his sons righteousness.

Apart from Gods righteousness being imputed to you. You are in fact evil

Gods wrath (again I like the term judgment better) against you has to go somewhere..

I am trying to understand your position and where we disagree.

We both, I think, believe that (correct me if you don't):

1. God's wrath is upon the wicked
2. Sinners must be "born of the Spirit" to "escape the wrath to come"
3. God makes Sinners into "new creations in Christ".
4. God has predestined us "to be conformed into the image of Christ"
5. On the "Day of Wrath" God will judge the wicked
6. On that day the wicked will experience the Second Death
7. On that day those in Christ, who have been recreated snd conformed to His image, will be judged righteous in Him.

God's judgment foes not go anywhere. He exercises judgment. The wicked will perish - all of them. Those who were at once wivked but died to the flesh and were made new creations ate judged by what they are , NOT what used to be.

What wrath awaits those who are transformed into the image of Christ?? None. They are no longer wicked. There is no wrath or judgment to "go" anywhere.

What I sm saying is that this being "born of the Spirit", this "recreation", being "conformed into the image of Christ" is real. It is not just language saying somebody else took our punishment. We really are made new creations.

 

[Brightfame52]

That depends on how one interprets 'by nature, children of wrath.'
Isaiah 12:1. 'On that day you will say: O LORD, I will praise you; though You were angry with me, Your anger is turned away, and You comfort me."'

lol God can be angry at His Children without them being vessels of wrath fitted for destruction. God gets angry with His favorites and chastises them out of Love. No, the elect being children of wrath, not children under wrath, because by nature they are just as worthy of wrath for their sins, as is the actual vessels of wrath.

If you believe the elect were under Gods wrath at anytime, you may need to reconsider if you understand propitiation and reconciliation

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I am trying to understand your position and where we disagree.

We both, I think, believe that (correct me if you don't):

1. God's wrath is upon the wicked
2. Sinners must be "born of the Spirit" to "escape the wrath to come"
3. God makes Sinners into "new creations in Christ".
4. God has predestined us "to be conformed into the image of Christ"
5. On the "Day of Wrath" God will judge the wicked
6. On that day the wicked will experience the Second Death
7. On that day those in Christ, who have been recreated snd conformed to His image, will be judged righteous in Him.

God's judgment foes not go anywhere. He exercises judgment. The wicked will perish - all of them. Those who were at once wivked but died to the flesh and were made new creations ate judged by what they are , NOT what used to be.

What wrath awaits those who are transformed into the image of Christ?? None. They are no longer wicked. There is no wrath or judgment to "go" anywhere.

What I sm saying is that this being "born of the Spirit", this "recreation", being "conformed into the image of Christ" is real. It is not just language saying somebody else took our punishment. We really are made new creations.

why can God make sinners "born of the spirit" What did Jesus do on the cross? what does the term redemption and justification mean, and why Can God offer these gifts to people? ie, who paid for the gift and how?

 

[JonC]

why can God make sinners "born of the spirit" What did Jesus do on the cross? what does the term redemption and justification mean, and why Can God offer these gifts to people? ie, who paid for the gift and how?

The gift is grace. Nobody paid for grace. Christ bought us with His own blood.

God can make sinners born of the Spirit because He is God. He recreates us (makes us new creations).

What we have to remember is that there are two ways God's righteousness has been manifested - through the Law and apart from the Law.

Calvinists make God being just and the justifier of sinners into a problem to be solved rather than a statement. Do let's use it.

God is just and the justifier of sinners. How can this happen?

1. One view says salvation is the manifestation of God's righteousness through the Law to satisfy God's legal requirements against sin. God transferred our sins onto Jesus and poured out the wratg stored for the wicked onto Jesus (onto our sins laid on Him) thereby paying our debt of sin, satisfying the demands of justice, znd achieving forgiveness.

God is just because He has punished, not the wicked but the wicked a lions fone by the wicked. He justifies sinners because this pays their debt of sin.

2. My view says that Jesus suffered and died for our sins as man, bringa new type of "Adam" (the "last Adam"). Through His perfect obedience to God He fulfilled the Law. But although sinless He suffered the wages of our sin, the death produced by sin. It is appointed man once to die and then the Judgment. Jesus died under the bondage of sin and death (the law if sin and death..."sin begats death") and God judged Him righteous, raised Him, glorified Him, gave Him a name above every name. He became a life giving Spirit in Whom there is no condemnation. Those who repent and believe (turn from a mind set on the flesh to a mind set on the Spirit) are saved, recreated, born of the Spirit

God is just because He will punish the wicked and justify the righteous. He justifies sinners by recreating them, making them not-wicked (conforming them into the image of Christ.


Basically you have to decide whether our salvation is God's righteousness manifested through the law or apart from the law.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The gift is grace. Nobody paid for grace. Christ bought us with His own blood.

100%

God can make sinners born of the Spirit because He is God. He recreates us (makes us new creations).

so God can over rule his own perfect justice?

What we have to remember is that there are two ways God's righteousness has been manifested - through the Law and apart from the Law.

Righteousness has never been by the law.. The law points us to christ because it proves we are sinners (cursed is the one)

Calvinists make God being just and the justifier of sinners into a problem to be solved rather than a statement. Do let's use it.

It was a problem that needed solved, And God solved it..

God is just and the justifier of sinners. How can this happen?

1. One view says salvation is the manifestation of God's righteousness through the Law to satisfy God's legal requirements against sin. God transferred our sins onto Jesus and poured out the wratg stored for the wicked onto Jesus (onto our sins laid on Him) thereby paying our debt of sin, satisfying the demands of justice, znd achieving forgiveness.

God is just because He has punished, not the wicked but the wicked a lions fone by the wicked. He justifies sinners because this pays their debt of sin.

2. My view says that Jesus suffered and died for our sins as man, bringa new type of "Adam" (the "last Adam"). Through His perfect obedience to God He fulfilled the Law. But although sinless He suffered the wages of our sin, the death produced by sin. It is appointed man once to die and then the Judgment. Jesus died under the bondage of sin and death (the law if sin and death..."sin begats death") and God judged Him righteous, raised Him, glorified Him, gave Him a name above every name. He became a life giving Spirit in Whom there is no condemnation. Those who repent and believe (turn from a mind set on the flesh to a mind set on the Spirit) are saved, recreated, born of the Spirit

God is just because He will punish the wicked and justify the righteous. He justifies sinners by recreating them, making them not-wicked (conforming them into the image of Christ.

so God's wrath (judgment) was directed to his son in the cross.. so we may be given the righteousness of Christ through him.

This answers the question of where Gods wrath went to.

please not the Calvinist things God just died for the elect. not all people. so they deny the love of God..

Basically you have to decide whether our salvation is God's righteousness manifested through the law or apart from the law.

I just see it the way Paul sees it

Gal 3: 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is [d]justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

it is by grace through faith.. not of works lest anyone should boast.

 

[JonC]

100%

so God can over rule his own perfect justice?

Righteousness has never been by the law.. The law points us to christ because it proves we are sinners (cursed is the one)

It was a problem that needed solved, And God solved it..

so God's wrath (judgment) was directed to his son in the cross.. so we may be given the righteousness of Christ through him.

This answers the question of where Gods wrath went to.

please not the Calvinist things God just died for the elect. not all people. so they deny the love of God..

I just see it the way Paul sees it

Gal 3: 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is [d]justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

it is by grace through faith.. not of works lest anyone should boast.

So God can over rule his own perfect justice?

I would say "no". There are no passages in the Bible that say God's wrath was directed to Christ. In fact, all of what is written seems to point to Jesus suffering under the law of sin and death. the powers of this age, evil, and wicked men...but by the predetermined plan of God.

Instead I believe that Jesus died for our sins (He is sinless, we sinned, and "sin begats death".

I think I told you I was once a Calvinist (not sure, but now I have). Calvin introduced the idea that Jesus suffered God's wrath against our sins. This was a reform of Aquinas (Roman Catholic Doctrine) which taught God punished Jesus with a satisfactory punishment in our place. Aquinas' theory was a reform of Anselm which taught that Christ's obedience restored the honor Adam robbed God on our behalf.

I believe all three theories are wrong.


Where did God's wrath or judgment against sin go in regards to the saved? There is no wrath to go anywhere because we are no longer wicked (at Judgment or the "Day of Wrath" we will have been "transformed into the image of Christ", not wicked). There is no readon for God to have punished our sins on Christ (biblically).

But under 16th century judicial philosophy there would be. Under this philosophy a crime creates a debt in justice that the judge must rectify in order to maintain justice. This philosophy did not work, but given its timing (and that it is what Calvin studied....he studied law, not theology....it made its way into Calvinism and spread from Presbyterianism to other denominations). I am SBC snd this idea was not what our denomination as a whole held. Now it is more common.

 

[Brightfame52]

I would say "no". There are no passages in the Bible that say God's wrath was directed to Christ. In fact, all of what is written seems to point to Jesus suffering under the law of sin and death. the powers of this age, evil, and wicked men...but by the predetermined plan of God.

God's Justice will work, He came under the Justice of God for the sins of the elect imputed or charged to Him.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So God can over rule his own perfect justice?

I would say "no". There are no passages in the Bible that say God's wrath was directed to Christ. In fact, all of what is written seems to point to Jesus suffering under the law of sin and death. the powers of this age, evil, and wicked men...but by the predetermined plan of God.

Instead I believe that Jesus died for our sins (He is sinless, we sinned, and "sin begats death".

The wage (penalty or righteous judgment) of sin is death (spiritual)

Adam was told. in the moment you eat of this tree. dying you will die And the moment he ate, we see he died in that moment (the things he knew about God left him, he tried to Hide, tried to blame shift. His nature was no longer focused on God. but on self.

We are born dead. and we must be made alive. In order for us to be made alive, when we are all guilty means someone else would have to suffer what we owe God in our stead. this is called redemption.

I tell people to think about their life. How many sins have they committed since they were born. No count each of them, and know each time you sinned, you received the death penalty for that sin. (James said if we keep the whole law yet stumble in even on point, we are guilty)

for this reason. we all owe God this debt, imagine we have sinned 10,000 times. that means we have to face the judge with 10,000 charges against us, each charge punishable by death. God can not just look at one person and say you are forgiven because I love you. and look at another person and say your not forgiven because he did not, there must be a reason.

This is also why God had to come and die. A man can not die for your 10,000 death penalties (or more or less) only and infinite God could take the infinite number of sins and pay for them. that was the price of redemption. where he who knew no sin was made sin for us, that we may be made the righteousness of God through his atoning sacrifice.

This is also why we are saved by grace, this Grace paid by the blood of Christ, the lamb of God who took the sin of the world on his body. But this grace is only applied through faith. not of works. lest we should boast (we can not pay for our own sin debt)

I think I told you I was once a Calvinist (not sure, but now I have). Calvin introduced the idea that Jesus suffered God's wrath against our sins. This was a reform of Aquinas (Roman Catholic Doctrine) which taught God punished Jesus with a satisfactory punishment in our place. Aquinas' theory was a reform of Anselm which taught that Christ's obedience restored the honor Adam robbed God on our behalf.

I believe all three theories are wrong.

never heard a roman catholic teach this, was he a reformer? I believe they think Jesus took original sin, we must pay for our own sins through acts of penance

Where did God's wrath or judgment against sin go in regards to the saved? There is no wrath to go anywhere because we are no longer wicked (at Judgment or the "Day of Wrath" we will have been "transformed into the image of Christ", not wicked). There is no readon for God to have punished our sins on Christ (biblically).

Yes,

But we are no longer under judgment because the lamb of God was slain on the day of judgment for our sin. Judgment was placed and the price of redemption was made.

again, call it wrath or judgment. But again also remember, a judge who passes judgment on a person who committed murder is not passing is wrath to the person. he passes judgment

But under 16th century judicial philosophy there would be. Under this philosophy a crime creates a debt in justice that the judge must rectify in order to maintain justice. This philosophy did not work, but given its timing (and that it is what Calvin studied....he studied law, not theology....it made its way into Calvinism and spread from Presbyterianism to other denominations). I am SBC snd this idea was not what our denomination as a whole held. Now it is more common.

the problem is, again, God used judicial terms in the NT concerning our salvation.

Tetelesti (literally paid in full) was a legal term which meant a persons debt was paid, and he was forgiven. Sadly the english bible used the words "it is finished"

Justified - A legal term, it means in essence we are found not guilty, The same root word is also translated righteous, or without guilt or sin

Redemption is another one, not only is it legal in the court system, it is legal in the system of slavery, a slave who owed a debt had to pay that debt to be freed. But someone could pay that debt in his place. and he would be set free as if he paid the debt himself.

 

[JonC]

The wage (penalty or righteous judgment) of sin is death (spiritual)

Adam was told. in the moment you eat of this tree. dying you will die And the moment he ate, we see he died in that moment (the things he knew about God left him, he tried to Hide, tried to blame shift. His nature was no longer focused on God. but on self.

We are born dead. and we must be made alive. In order for us to be made alive, when we are all guilty means someone else would have to suffer what we owe God in our stead. this is called redemption.

I tell people to think about their life. How many sins have they committed since they were born. No count each of them, and know each time you sinned, you received the death penalty for that sin. (James said if we keep the whole law yet stumble in even on point, we are guilty)

for this reason. we all owe God this debt, imagine we have sinned 10,000 times. that means we have to face the judge with 10,000 charges against us, each charge punishable by death. God can not just look at one person and say you are forgiven because I love you. and look at another person and say your not forgiven because he did not, there must be a reason.

This is also why God had to come and die. A man can not die for your 10,000 death penalties (or more or less) only and infinite God could take the infinite number of sins and pay for them. that was the price of redemption. where he who knew no sin was made sin for us, that we may be made the righteousness of God through his atoning sacrifice.

This is also why we are saved by grace, this Grace paid by the blood of Christ, the lamb of God who took the sin of the world on his body. But this grace is only applied through faith. not of works. lest we should boast (we can not pay for our own sin debt)



never heard a roman catholic teach this, was he a reformer? I believe they think Jesus took original sin, we must pay for our own sins through acts of penance



Yes,

But we are no longer under judgment because the lamb of God was slain on the day of judgment for our sin. Judgment was placed and the price of redemption was made.

again, call it wrath or judgment. But again also remember, a judge who passes judgment on a person who committed murder is not passing is wrath to the person. he passes judgment

the problem is, again, God used judicial terms in the NT concerning our salvation.

Tetelesti (literally paid in full) was a legal term which meant a persons debt was paid, and he was forgiven. Sadly the english bible used the words "it is finished"

Justified - A legal term, it means in essence we are found not guilty, The same root word is also translated righteous, or without guilt or sin

Redemption is another one, not only is it legal in the court system, it is legal in the system of slavery, a slave who owed a debt had to pay that debt to be freed. But someone could pay that debt in his place. and he would be set free as if he paid the debt himself.

We disagree at the start. It may be in how we view the following truths of Scripture:

It is appointed man once to die and then the Judgment.
Sin produces death
The wages of sin ate death but the gift of God is life


I do not believe the wages of sin, that death produced by sin itself, is God's judgment. I believe God's judgment is the "Second Death".

So I believe we die because "sin produces death" and then the Judgment.

But God's Judgment is not "spiritual death". God's life is life. But the wicked are not given spiritual life - they ate already absent spiritual life. The Second Death is not spiritual death but what happens to those never born of the Spirit.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We disagree at the start. It may be in how we view the following truths of Scripture:

It is appointed man once to die and then the Judgment.
Sin produces death
The wages of sin ate death but the gift of God is life


I do not believe the wages of sin, that death produced by sin itself, is God's judgment. I believe God's judgment is the "Second Death".

So I believe we die because "sin produces death" and then the Judgment.

But God's Judgment is not "spiritual death". God's life is life. But the wicked are not given spiritual life - they ate already absent spiritual life. The Second Death is not spiritual death but what happens to those never born of the Spirit.

a problem I have with this thinking is we are dead in trespasses and sins, and we must be made alive in Christ if we want to enter the kingdom.

Jesus said he who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condemned already.

The one who suffers the second death suffers it because they remained in a condemned state based on the fact they never repented and recieved the gift of God paid by the blood of Christ (although it was offered to them)

the wage of sin however is this spiritual death. from which we must be born again to have this wage removed. and our relationship with God put to where it was intended to be before sin entered the world.

Physical death is one of the many results of sin. Not the penalty of sin. if it was the wage, anyone who died physically would have paid for their own sin debt, and hell would be empty

 

[Brightfame52]

But God's Judgment is not "spiritual death".

False, thats why many be dead as per Rom 5:15

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

be dead here isnt physical death or the second death, its a spiritual dead, and its Gods Judgment

Now many be dead is a aorist indicative, they died in the past and its an present fact