Where does God's Wrath Go?

[Eternally Grateful]

I think the difference is how we place "the wages if sin".

I view the "wages of sin" as the consequences of sin (for "sin begats death").
And I view it as absolute. We sin, therefore we die.
The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is life.
"Although we die yet shall we live"
The "gift" has removed the "sting" of death.

I believe the Second Death is the judgment against the wicked.

The reason I do not believe that the wages if sin is spiritual death is that nowhere is it offered in the Bible that men die spiritually.

you will have to explain what kind of death we had then.

Ephesians 2: 2
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,

Ephesians 2: 5
even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Colossians 2:13
And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

what kind of death was this (it is not physical death)

Paul tells us that first comes natural life, second comes spiritual life.
We are spiritually dead if we have not been "born of the Spirit".

Yes.. which is the wage of sin.

But yes, I agree that physical death is a product of sin rather than God's judgment against sin.
I believe God's judgment is the "Second Death".

when Jesus said they are condemned already, (john 3) what is this condemnation?

 

[Salty]

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[JonC]

you will have to explain what kind of death we had then.

Ephesians 2: 2
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,

Ephesians 2: 5
even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Colossians 2:13
And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

what kind of death was this (it is not physical death)



Yes.. which is the wage of sin.

when Jesus said they are condemned already, (john 3) what is this condemnation?

1. I believe that we were dead in our trespasses, but that this refers to not being alive spiritually (as opposed to dying spiritually). "Dead" in terms of lacking that life.

Spiritual life is that life that cannot end, that life which is "Christ in us".

2. That passage (1 Cor 15) also compares Adam to Christ in stating Adam was created natural rather than spiritual and Christ the spiritual. Natural first, spiritual second.

Add to this what God told Adam resulted from his sin - Adam would die, which God called "returning to dust".

Consider that this death (the wages of sin) is called the product of sin (sin itself produces this death - "sin begats death", "a mind set on the flesh is death") rather than God's judgment.

Think about the order - it is appointed man once to die and then the Judgment (this "once to die" is not the judgment).

In Adam we all die (physical death), in Christ all shall be made alive.

Why do you belueve it is not physical death?

3. The condemnation is that the Light has come into the world and they rejected the Light.

Unlike physical life (the flesh), spiritual life is incorruptable (1 Pet 3). How does spiritual life be ome corruptable and die?

 

[Salty]

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