Where does the Bible teach a pre-trib rapture?

[MB]

It is an issue of interpretation. Only the elect are gathered in Matthew 24:31, ". . . shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. . . ."
The rapture is mentioned as such only in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, ". . . shall be caught up . . . ." The Latin ". . . rapiemur . . . ." Now Matthew 24:31 is after the tribulation, verse 29.

Mat 24:30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth smite the breast, and they shall see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of the heaven, with power and much glory;
How is this description as a thief in the night. If the rapture is post trib anyone will no when He comes

Mat 24 30 This is describing the coming of Christ. There will be people saved on Earth during the trib. However those who are before the trib will not be in it nor can they be.
1Th 5:9 because God did not appoint us to anger, but to the acquiring of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10 who did die for us, that whether we wake—whether we sleep—together with him we may live;
1Th 5:11 wherefore, comfort ye one another, and build ye up, one the one, as also ye do.

How are we going to escape the Antichrist's anger if it's after the trib? The whole world will be in termoil and the anti Christ will be killing Christians like the Germans did the Jews. This would mean we are appointed to die horribly We will be easy to spot with no mark of the beast and the seal of God in our fore heads. You must believe God to be so sadistic to allow His own to suffer so needlessly.

You didn't answer my question. How is Christ going to return with all His saints with out a rapture first?Please show scriptural proof.
1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
MB

 

[MB]

I am not a Calvinist.

He has to appear first, Hebrews 9:28, Titus 2:13, 1 John 3:2, 1 Thessalonians 4:14.

He has already appeared to the disciples and other believers 3 days after His burial.
MB.

 

[MB]

If we believed in the same Christ, you would love me.

If you say we don't then we don't
MB

 

[37818]

How is this description as a thief in the night.[?]

They had not expected His appearing.
Revelation 16:15, "Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame."
And 1 Thessalonians 5:, ". . . For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. . . ."

 

[37818]

He has already appeared to the disciples and other believers 3 days after His burial.
MB.

So you believe Hebrews 9:28 refers to His resurrection? Hebrews 9:12 refers to ascension into heaven after His resurrection where He goes to be mediator, Hebrews 9:24 until His second appearing, Hebrews 9:28.

 

[MB]

So you believe Hebrews 9:28 refers to His resurrection? Hebrews 9:12 refers to ascension into heaven after His resurrection where He goes to be mediator, Hebrews 9:24 until His second appearing, Hebrews 9:28.

Do thieves want to be seen. It has been my experience that thieves come at night because they don't want to be seen. The only thing people on Earth will see is all the missing people. Christ doesn't appear He sends His angles to take us Home We meet the Lord in the air. It would be senseless for Him to appear to everyone at the rapture. This would not. be like the thief in the night Explain that if you would.
MB.

 

[37818]

Do thieves want to be seen. It has been my experience that thieves come at night because they don't want to be seen. The only thing people on Earth will see is all the missing people. Christ doesn't appear He sends His angles to take us Home We meet the Lord in the air. It would be senseless for Him to appear to everyone at the rapture. This would not. be like the thief in the night Explain that if you would.
MB.

So after the thief does what the thief does no one notices?
Matthew 24:41-42, ". . . Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. . . ." The ones taken are to the wine press of the wrath of God, Revelation 14:14-20.

 

[canadyjd]

Post a quote please.

From your thread “Defending dispensationalism….” Post #149 JD731 said:

“I won’t believe anything you say until you can prove it with scripture in context without conflicts to doctrine…”

You are saying you will not believe scripture in context if it conflicts with your doctrine.

That is why you cannot address the Ephesians passage which clearly states the two groups, Jew and Gentile have been made one new man by the work of Jesus on the cross and then says that truth will demonstrate the grace of Christ “in the ages to come”.

It destroys the dispensationalism belief in a separate future for Israel and the church.

Therefore, since scripture in context conflicts with your doctrine, you won’t believe it, and then accuse those who are quoting scripture in context of not reading or believing God’s word.

peace to you

 

[1689Dave]

If you say we don't then we don't
MB

I had a Calvinistic conversion to Christ before I ever heard about Calvin. It's an experience you cannot doubt. If you ever experience that level of truth, you will see what I mean.

 

[MB]

So after the thief does what the thief does no one notices?
Matthew 24:41-42, ". . . Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. . . ." The ones taken are to the wine press of the wrath of God, Revelation 14:14-20.

No one notices the thief until he is already gone.. It does not say those taken went to the wine press Separate books different writers different story about different things.
MB.

 

[MB]

I had a Calvinistic conversion to Christ before I ever heard about Calvin. It's an experience you cannot doubt. If you ever experience that level of truth, you will see what I mean.

What can I say Dave? Shall I insult you like you do me. I don't believe you. Certainly your actions speak louder than words.
MB

 

[MB]

From your thread “Defending dispensationalism….” Post #149 JD731 said:

“I won’t believe anything you say until you can prove it with scripture in context without conflicts to doctrine…”

You are saying you will not believe scripture in context if it conflicts with your doctrine.

That is why you cannot address the Ephesians passage which clearly states the two groups, Jew and Gentile have been made one new man by the work of Jesus on the cross and then says that truth will demonstrate the grace of Christ “in the ages to come”.

It destroys the dispensationalism belief in a separate future for Israel and the church.

Therefore, since scripture in context conflicts with your doctrine, you won’t believe it, and then accuse those who are quoting scripture in context of not reading or believing God’s word.

peace to you

You mean of course conflicts to your doctrine don't you. Calvinism is not a doctrine it's a Philosophy.
MB

 

[canadyjd]

You mean of course conflicts to your doctrine don't you. Calvinism is not a doctrine it's a Philosophy.
MB

I didn’t make the statement. I have repeatedly stated if scripture, in context, demonstrates what I believe is wrong, I’ll agree with scripture, and change my mind, which I have done on occasion.

Peace to you

 

[37818]

No one notices the thief until he is already gone.. It does not say those taken went to the wine press Separate books different writers different story about different things.
MB.

What I gave you is my understanding. Your agreement is not necessary. "One taken and one left." The word translated "left" can mean "forgive," see Matthew 9:2.

 

[MB]

What I gave you is my understanding. Your agreement is not necessary. "One taken and one left." The word translated "left" can mean "forgive," see Matthew 9:2.

We at least agree on some things.
Let's just agree we disagree on somethings.
MB

 

[Hannahande]

Isnt it when you study the Bible - it helps you learn God's word, imitate Him and meditate on it. The Bible contains a lot of books that should be read and correlated with one another to have a grasp of the meaning of each verse.

Reading and knowing God's word should not lead us to disagreeing rather meditate on what is being said and asked the guidance of the Holy Spirit to understand it.

 

[1689Dave]

What can I say Dave? Shall I insult you like you do me. I don't believe you. Certainly your actions speak louder than words.
MB

Truth hurts. I speak from experience. What experience do you have?

 

[JD731]

What I think the scriptures teach.

A man who denies what God says, like he will be King over all the earth at the same time he is King on the earth, and that he will take his throne after he eliminates every rebel off the earth in a short time frame of 3.5 years that he calls "the day of the Lord," which he describes in 12 bible books, beginning at Isaiah and going through 2 Peter, a time of over 800 years, that he describes as the wrath of God and his indignation, and his vengeance against certain sinners, all in the future while saying specifically and unequivocally that his church, his body and bride, will be delivered from the wrath to come, is presenting himself as a prophet of God and saying he has been sent to change what God has previously said and has written in his book. I think God will probably judge him one day as a prophet and find him to be a liar.

Here is some samplings of what God said.

Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we (the justified ones) shall be saved from wrath through him.
Ephesians 5:6
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Colossians 3:6
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
1 Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
____________________________________

Isaiah 13:9
Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isaiah 13:13
Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
Jeremiah 10:10
But the Lord is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.
Zephaniah 1:15
That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,
Zephaniah 1:18
Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the Lord's wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.
Isaiah 13:6
Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
Ezekiel 30:3
For the day is near, even the day of the Lord is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen.
Joel 1:15
Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.
Joel 2:1
Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the Lord cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
Amos 5:18
Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord! to what end is it for you? the day of the Lord is darkness, and not light.
Amos 5:20
Shall not the day of the Lord be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?
Zephaniah 1:18
Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the Lord's wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.
Zephaniah 2:3
Seek ye the Lord, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the Lord's anger.
Malachi 4:5
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

IRONICALLY

Everyone seems to think it is the rapture of the church that comes as a thief in the night and the scripture nowhere says that. It is the DAY OF THE LORD that comes as a thief in the night, the last 3.5 years of the 7 years tribulation.

I am not guessing about that.

1 Thessalonians 5:2
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.


But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The rapture will occur but nowhere does it say it will come as a thief in the night.

God has been predicting the day of the LORD for centuries and says it is a day of judgemnet and wrath like the world has never known, even in the days of Noah

________________

The day of the Lord is coming in all the books of the bible where the day of the LORD is mentioned, except one. The last book. Here is what is said in the last book, the Revelation.

Revelation 1:10
I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

Revelation 6:17
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
___________________

It has been coming and in this book it is come. As anyone can see, I am not guessing about that.

Acts 17:31
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ in judgement and his appearing is that day.

One must believe the words.

 

[37818]

1 Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Excellant.

Those are two key Scriptures used by those I knew who held a pre-trib rapture. Interperting God's wrath and the Devil's wrath being in the same time frame.

I have since (1969) believed in a post-trib pre-wrath rapture, Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 6:12-17. Those two references to be one event, not two.

 

[1689Dave]

Excellant.

Those are two key Scriptures used by those I knew who held a pre-trib rapture. Interperting God's wrath and the Devil's wrath being in the same time frame.

I have since (1969) believed in a post-trib pre-wrath rapture, Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 6:12-17. Those two references to be one event, not two.

As I understand, only those who do not believe in Christ are under God's wrath.
“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36 (KJV 1900)

And:
“He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.” Psalm 91:1 (KJV 1900)

So I expect God's wrath on any non-believer. And safety for believers from the wrath.