Featured Where Is Free Will?

Didn't God send the evil spirit to trouble Saul? The evil spirit was the one who troubled Saul, but God was active in sending it to Saul.

Secondary cause here.

 

Well, look at Saul of Tarsus. In the Romans 9 debate between Dr. Flowers and Dr. White, White asked Flowers if Saul was able to reject the Christ. He said he was able but not willing. Dr. White then said that if God knew Saul would be willing, then Saul could not reject. Dr. Flowers then said that was for William Layne Craig to answer. Dr. White said he wouldn't answer that question either.

If men's will is truly free, then God doesn't truly know until they choose Him. Free will is voluntary choice or decision, freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention. If their will is truly free, then its unimpeded by God and He can not truly know their outcome until it comes to pass. Open theism(possibly molinism too) is their default position, imo.

 

Well, most ppl call themselves Arminians who are not Arminians these days.

 

"Allowed" being the key word.

 

And most people who call themselves Calvinists are not true Calvinists.

 

However, God still decreed it. He uses primary and secondary causes.

 

Uses, not causes. Decree? No.

 

You might not realize it, but you're saying two different things.
When you say "God knew Adam would do it (sin) you are implying that he had foreknowledge of it but didn't cause it to happen. That must mean that God saw what Adam would do and allowed it to happen.

Again, you are saying two different things. God knew Saul of Tarsus would choose to follow Him, so Saul did so. That implies that God foreknew (looked down through the corridors of time) Saul's conversion but didn't make it happen.

 

I am confused by your statements.

Therefore, in an attempt to clarify my position that Jesus does not "know" everyone, I will put Mat 7:23 in context.

Mat 7:21 KJV - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 KJV - Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 KJV - And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Who says "I never know you"? Jesus
From whom are they to depart? Jesus

 

yes, I
Mat 25:41

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Departfrom me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


but foreknow and knew it is not just the word for previous knowledge , because God know all, Foreknow, is the same as previous relationship, like sexual relationship or I knew you

Rom 11:2
God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
2Pe 3:17
Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these thingsbefore, G4267 beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.




I subscribe to the pre existance of the human soul that is assigned a body from this verse
Heb 2:14

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

and many others.

 

I never asserted that "looking down the corridors of time" is my position on the issue. I'm stating that SovereignGrace is taking that position, whether deliberately or inadvertently.

The crux of the issue is: Did God CAUSE Adam to sin? Or did God KNOW that Adam would sin?

Please explain your position.

 

Changing the meaning of words is usual tactic of Calvinists to make their theology work for them.

 

And saying "in the Greek there is a nuance........"

 

LOL! You started an entire thread on it.

Let's Talk About The Word Draw..

Once again,
The crux of the issue is: Did God CAUSE Adam to sin? Or did God KNOW that Adam would sin?

Please explain your position.

 

Once again,
The crux of the issue is: Did God CAUSE Adam to sin? Or did God KNOW that Adam would sin?

Please explain your position.