Where is it in the Bible

[Moriah]

If you read the post again, no where will you find where I said man cannot believe in God. In fact, Romans 1:20-21 says we can look around us, the night sky in particular, and know there is a God.

This is what you said, “I am not going to enter a Calvin-free will debate, but don't you think Romans 3:10 defines our state?” Now, that is all you said. Do you know that Calvinists use that scripture falsely to support their doctrines? So no wonder why I thought you were standing up for Calvinism.

When one goes beyond that to the Gospel, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. How you got that I believe that God is up in heaven zapping people with His magic wand into salvation daily, I do not know.

I like the picture you give of what it is that Calvinists believe! lol I have not heard of it put that way before. That is good.

If we spent as much time telling others about Jesus as we do arguing between Calvinism and Arminianism, then possibly more people would be in God's family.

I am not an Arminian. Maybe if you read more debates you would know that there are people who are Christians and are not Calvinists or Arminians. So please do not knock the work of others trying to get the truth told.False religions and false doctrines must be refuted. That is the Word of God. If more people told the true gospel, then more people would know the Truth. I hope that you will realize this one day soon. In the meantime, please do not judge a servant of the Lord.

 

[Moriah]

First Accusation:


Second Accusation:
Third Accusation:
Fourth Accusation:
Fifth Accusation:
Sixth Accusation:
Seventh Accusation:
Eighth Accusation:
Ninth Accusation:
Tenth Accusation:
Eleventh Accusation:
Moriah, for someone who accuses someone else of accusing the brethren, you sure do accuse the brethren a lot. Do you think you ought to give it a break??

You show yourself for the unrighteous judge that you are. I was defending myself. Move on, accuser.

 

[The Biblicist]

You show yourself for the unrighteous judge that you are. I was defending myself. Move on, accuser.

I would say he just thoroughly exposed your own hypocrises and you don't like to be exposed for what you really are and so you do what every politician does - attack the one who exposes you!!! What hypocrisy!

 

[DHK]

You show yourself for the unrighteous judge that you are. I was defending myself. Move on, accuser.

Another accusation! Why do you keep accusing people of things they do not do? I only showed you the things you accused another poster of, and you remain in a state of denial.

 

[Moriah]

Another accusation! Why do you keep accusing people of things they do not do? I only showed you the things you accused another poster of, and you remain in a state of denial.

Do you want to take a count of how many times you accused HP and me of being liars? Now stop making these threads about personal attacks on us. You also keep accusing me of other sins I do not do, you are an accuser. In addition, you accuse me of saying things I did not say. You do not speak as a Christian when speaking of Christians. I do not recognize what you say as the word of God. At least stop telling Christians and me in particular what sins I do, no matter what your false beliefs have taught you to think.

 

[DHK]

Do you want to take a count of how many times you accused HP and me of being liars? Now stop making these threads about personal attacks on us. You also keep accusing me of other sins I do not do, you are an accuser. In addition, you accuse me of saying things I did not say. You do not speak as a Christian when speaking of Christians. I do not recognize what you say as the word of God. At least stop telling Christians and me in particular what sins I do, no matter what your false beliefs have taught you to think.

Every time you used the word "you" in your former post you accused me of something. So it is a post of one accusation after another. It is calling the kettle black as they say. Please don't talk to me about accusations. Look well into your own life. I believe you need to take into account the evidence that has been posted on this thread and repent.

However this thread has gotten off topic.
Go back to the OP

Where is the scripture that says, “All humans are born totally depraved”? Please quote just one scripture. The one scripture has to say it simply and plainly, it cannot merely sound like it. It cannot be an assumption, but a clear and direct statement.

Perhaps your posts are a good example of the depravity of man.
Anyway, let's stick to the OP, and get back to it.
A good verse to start with is Jer.13:23

Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

 

[Moriah]

Anyway, let's stick to the OP, and get back to it.
A good verse to start with is Jer.13:23

[/SIZE]Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

Yes, please stop derailing my thread.

In Jeremiah 13:23, it is about those who are ACCUSTOMED to doing evil. It is not about everyone, only those who are accustomed to doing evil.

Mark 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Mark 10:26 The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, "Who then can be saved?"

Mark 10:27 Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God."

Your false teachers have so indoctrinated you. If you had depended on the Holy Spirit to teach you, you might not have been so taken into falseness.

 

[DHK]

Yes, please stop derailing my thread.

In Jeremiah 13:23, it is about those who are ACCUSTOMED to doing evil. It is not about everyone, only those who are accustomed to doing evil.

I'll come back to this verse in a minute.

Mark 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Mark 10:26 The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, "Who then can be saved?"

Mark 10:27 Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God."

This passage has nothing to do with the depravity of man, but with rich man, and their difficulty of entering into heaven. Your off topic.

Your false teachers have so indoctrinated you.

A false accusations. If you continue this way I will start giving you infractions or ask another moderator to intervene.

If you had depended on the Holy Spirit to teach you, you might not have been so taken into falseness.

Another personal attack. It would deserve another infraction. You are not dealing with subject matter. You are attacking me personally.

Now back to Jeremiah 13:23
Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

The verse makes three statements: all rhetorical, all with the same conclusion.
1. Can the Ethiopian change his skin?
The Ethiopian was born with black skin. He cannot change it to white skin no matter how hard he tries. He has become accustomed to it. That is his nature.

2. Can the leopard change its spot. The leopard was born with spots. He cannot change his spots to stripes no matter how hard he tries. He becomes accustomed to his stripes. That is his nature.

3. Then may ye do good that are accustomed to doing evil.
Is it possible for you to do good, who were born doing evil, have been accustomed to doing evil from birth; it is your nature to do evil, just as it is the nature for the leopard to have spots and the Ethiopian to have black skin--and both are accustomed to it.

You can't get around the teaching of this verse. This teaches the depravity of man so strongly it cannot be refuted.

 

[Moriah]

[/B]This passage has nothing to do with the depravity of man, but with rich man, and their difficulty of entering into heaven. Your off topic.

You say the passage has nothing to do with the depravity of man. There is no total depravity of all men. You read that the Apostles said then who can be saved. How you think you can claim it has nothing to do with the topic is a ridiculous debate tactic. Just say it has nothing to do with the topic…lol

A false accusations. If you continue this way I will start giving you infractions or ask another moderator to intervene.

It is not a false accusation. Have you not been taught that belief? As for another moderator intervening…do not all of you have the same beliefs? Are you all impartial? I am almost done here anyway. There is too much attacks on the Truth here, and attacks on me personally.

Another personal attack. It would deserve another infraction. You are not dealing with subject matter. You are attacking me personally.

You are not innocent by far.

Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
The verse makes three statements: all rhetorical, all with the same conclusion.
1. Can the Ethiopian change his skin?
The Ethiopian was born with black skin. He cannot change it to white skin no matter how hard he tries. He has become accustomed to it.

Tell that to Michael Jackson. I guess what you claim is impossible for God is possible for Michael. lol

3. Then may ye do good that are accustomed to doing evil.
Is it possible for you to do good, who were born doing evil, have been accustomed to doing evil from birth; it is your nature to do evil, just as it is the nature for the leopard to have spots and the Ethiopian to have black skin--and both are accustomed to it.

It is about people who are ACCUSTOMED TO DOING EVIL. It is not about everyone, but I would say it could very well be about you, since you so insist.

You can't get around the teaching of this verse. This teaches the depravity of man so strongly it cannot be refuted.

Nothing is impossible with God. You have been refuted.

 

[The Biblicist]

It is about people who are ACCUSTOMED TO DOING EVIL.

I suppose it is not about all leopards either? I suppose it is not about all Ethiopians either? Your rationale simply fails to harmonize with the text. But you do don't care what God's Word says about anything that contradicts you do you??:laugh:

If you are going to apply Michael Jackson to get around this text then it would have to be what is NOT THE NORM unless you don't believe he was born black????

I suppose there are leopards that are anomolies also. But it is obvious to any HONEST interpreter of the text that the writer is speaking of what is THE RULE not the rare exception. Christ would be a rare exception to this rule.

The very tactics you employ to pervert, distort and deny the plain Word of God are not only shameful but are directly from the arsenal of those who repudiate the Word of God

 

[Moriah]

I suppose it is not about all leopards either? I suppose it is not about all Ethiopians either?

If you are going to apply Michael Jackson then it would have to be what is NOT THE NORM unless you don't believe he was born black????

I suppose there are leopards that are anomolies also.

[edited for rudeness and slander]

God can make a black person white, and God can change a leopard its spots. With God, nothing is impossible.

P.S. Notice after I removed all the offensive remarks to me in your reply that your posts show to be the ridiculousness more clearly? You try to distract people from the ridiculousness that you preach by saying all kinds of slanderous things to me.

 

[DHK]

You say the passage has nothing to do with the depravity of man. There is no total depravity of all men. You read that the Apostles said then who can be saved. How you think you can claim it has nothing to do with the topic is a ridiculous debate tactic. Just say it has nothing to do with the topic…lol

No, it has nothing to do with the depravity of man; it has to do with riches.
The apostles were amazed at the teaching of Jesus, and in their astonishment asked a rhetorical question, "Who, then, can be saved?" A question does not constitute doctrine. It was a question, and that is all. Where do you get dogmatic doctrine from a question asked out of amazement?

It is not a false accusation. Have you not been taught that belief? As for another moderator intervening…do not all of you have the same beliefs? Are you all impartial? I am almost done here anyway. There is too much attacks on the Truth here, and attacks on me personally.

You said:
"Your false teachers have indoctrinated you."

You said that to me. It is insulting, a personal attack, a false accusation, an ugly carnal comment, dirty filth that is coming out of a heart that I would consider unsaved if I didn't know better. Don't you post things like that to me when you don't know where I have been taught, what teachers I have sat under, what schools I have gone to, how many years I have been in the ministry, how many years I have been teaching others, etc.

You go right now to the bathroom and wash your mouth out with soap!
It needs it. You don't need to be so insulting.
I didn't have false teachers. And then you have the prideful audacity to say it is not a false accusation. What is wrong with you??

It appears to me that the one that has swallowed the heresy of Pelagianism hook, line and sinker is the one that has been indoctrinated by those teaching heresy. For that is a heresy and has been considered heresy by orthodox Christianity throughout all centuries ever since the apostles.

You are not innocent by far.

You are not able to focus. I was not the subject under scrutiny. As I said: You are unable to deal with subject matter; you only attack the person.

Tell that to Michael Jackson. I guess what you claim is impossible for God is possible for Michael. lol

Did Michael Jackson live in the times of Jeremiah. Did Michael Jackson by the power of his mind, will his skin to be changed?

It is about people who are ACCUSTOMED TO DOING EVIL. It is not about everyone, but I would say it could very well be about you, since you so insist.

Yes the verse applies to everyone. Everyone is born a sinner and sinners are depraved, accustomed to doing evil. Sinners sin. They sin because they are sinners. Adulterers commit adultery because they are adulterers. Thieves steal because they are thieves. Liars lie because they are liars. Sinners sin because they are sinners. We all are born sinners, and so we sin. We are accustomed to it.

Nothing is impossible with God. You have been refuted.

I haven't seen a refutation, but I have seen some remarks that have been spoken out of a wicked heart. And yet you claim to be sinless! Have you been to confession lately?

 

[saturneptune]

Moriah,
Why is it that you are alone in this thread as being right and everyone else is wrong? Why is it that everyone is judging you alone? Do you believe the other ten posters in this thread set up a conference call to start a conspiracy against you?

 

[The Biblicist]

God can make a black person white, and God can change a leopard its spots. With God, nothing is impossible.

The text says NOTHING about what God is able to do but about the CONDITION of man! The condition of man FROM BIRTH is doing evil just as the CONDITION of the leopard and Ethiopian fro birth is their skin.

You simply READ INTO this text what the text does not even consider, speak of, or state! It is not about God's power but about man's natural condition from birth. It is not about God's power but about the Leopards skin from birth. It is not about God's power but about the Ethiopian's skin from birth. Get it???:BangHead:

 

[Moriah]

The text says NOTHING about what God is able to do but about the CONDITION of man! The condition of man FROM BIRTH is doing evil just as the CONDITION of the leopard and Ethiopian fro birth is their skin.

It is not about God's power but about man's natural condition from birth. It is not about God's power but about the Leopards skin from birth. It is not about God's power but about the Ethiopian's skin from birth.

[edited for rudeness and slander]

What do you not still get? IT IS ABOUT THOSE WHO ARE ACCUSTOMED TO DOING EVIL. Not everyone is accustomed to doing evil.

 

[DHK]

What do you not still get? IT IS ABOUT THOSE WHO ARE ACCUSTOMED TO DOING EVIL. Not everyone is accustomed to doing evil.

Every person is a sinner. Every sinner is accustomed to doing evil.
Every leopard has spots. Every leopard is accustomed to his spots.
Every Ethiopian has black skin. Every Ethiopian is accustomed to his black skin.

Why do you want to reject such obvious truth.

 

[Moriah]

Moriah,
Why is it that you are alone in this thread as being right and everyone else is wrong? Why is it that everyone is judging you alone? Do you believe the other ten posters in this thread set up a conference call to start a conspiracy against you?

I do not have time for your spacey questions, Saturn Neptune. (Pun intended.) In all seriousness, my mind does not go into those types of conspiracy theories. Can you try to stick to the topic?

 

[Moriah]

Every person is a sinner. Every sinner is accustomed to doing evil.
Every leopard has spots. Every leopard is accustomed to his spots.
Every Ethiopian has black skin. Every Ethiopian is accustomed to his black skin.
[edited for rude and slanderous remarks]

It is about those who are accustomed to doing evil. It is not about everyone. The scriptures say it is about those who are accustomed to doing evil.

 

[DHK]

It is about those who are accustomed to doing evil. It is not about everyone. The scriptures says it is about those who are accustomed to doing evil.

For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

It is about all. All are accustomed to doing evil. All are sinners. All sinners are accustomed to doing evil for all are sinners. You are denying this Scriptural truth here for you are blinded by your pre-conceived theology of Pelagianism which has been considered as heresy from the times of the apostles onward. Man is born with a sin nature just as leopards are born with spots and Ethiopians are born with black skin. The teaching is clear.

 

[Moriah]

For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

It is about all. All are accustomed to doing evil. All are sinners. All sinners are accustomed to doing evil for all are sinners.
Man is born with a sin nature just as leopards are born with spots and Ethiopians are born with black skin. The teaching is clear.

[edited for rudeness and slander]

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. That does not say all are accustomed to doing evil.
Side note: I am not a Pelagius.