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18For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 19in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison. 1 Peter 3:18-19.
9(Now this expression, "He ascended," what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.) Ephesians 4:9-10.
6For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God. 1 Peter 4:6.
10so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth. Philippians 2:10.
We know by what He told the thief on the cross that on that day He was in paradise (Luke 23:43). I don't think it gets any clearer than that.![]()
Your claim that Jesus came back in 70AD does not line up with the Word of God.Well not so fast. If you make the all too often mistake of isolating Luke 23:43 unto itself and reading it like its English literature then you can come to the conclusion that Jesus is telling the thief on the cross that in a 24 hour period of time they will be in heaven together (or whatever other definition you assign to paradise). But this is not what the bible is saying.
There is a specific name for this type of rhetorical scheme, but I can’t remember what it is.
The key is to read this in the Jewish context it was written in.
This is similar to the many passages in Deuteronomy where Moses uses the expression “today” to put emphasis on what he is telling the Hebrew people. Deut 4:40, 7:11, 8:1, 8:11 among others.
To paraphrase Jesus he is saying “I’m promising you today, that you will be with me in heaven.”
Keep the verse in context with the rest of the bible. If he could go to heaven that day then Jesus wouldn’t have to go prepare a place for him and then return for him.
When “today” is used in this context it’s to emphasize what is being said at that moment. What is being said applies to the future.
Jesus prepared the place for us and came back in 70 AD when the New Covenant was consummated and now when we die we do go straight to heaven into God’s presence. Jesus’ coming back was future to the thief and is history to us.
If you are a futurist and think Christ hasn’t returned yet then you have to believe that when you die you are heading off to Sheol until Christ returns for you. Hence, an advantage of being a full preterist.
“Your understanding of the inspiration of Scripture is utterly astounding!” Mel
Why thank you Mel!
Well that certainly is a paraphrase. I couldn't find even one version that has that sentence punctuated the way you have. I guess you are smarter than all the translators of the past 700 years or so.To paraphrase Jesus he is saying “I’m promising you today, that you will be with me in heaven.”
Keep the verse in context with the rest of the bible. If he could go to heaven that day then Jesus wouldn’t have to go prepare a place for him and then return for him.
When “today” is used in this context it’s to emphasize what is being said at that moment. What is being said applies to the future.
But then we have that pesky little verse in John 20:Jesus was with the Father during those three days.
'Absent from the body, present with the Lord.' I read that somewhere.
I recognize that Jesus' encounter with Mary Magdalene is not completely dispositive but he did say "I have not yet ascended," meaning this was something He still had to do.Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father . . . .
But then we have that pesky little verse in John 20: I recognize that Jesus' encounter with Mary Magdalene is not completely dispositive but he did say "I have not yet ascended," meaning this was something He still had to do.
I'll take the literal interpretation of it minus the preteristic spin insteadWell not so fast. If you make the all too often mistake of isolating Luke 23:43 unto itself and reading it like its English literature then you can come to the conclusion that Jesus is telling the thief on the cross that in a 24 hour period of time they will be in heaven together (or whatever other definition you assign to paradise). But this is not what the bible is saying.
There is a specific name for this type of rhetorical scheme, but I can’t remember what it is.
The key is to read this in the Jewish context it was written in.
This is similar to the many passages in Deuteronomy where Moses uses the expression “today” to put emphasis on what he is telling the Hebrew people. Deut 4:40, 7:11, 8:1, 8:11 among others.
To paraphrase Jesus he is saying “I’m promising you today, that you will be with me in heaven.”
Keep the verse in context with the rest of the bible. If he could go to heaven that day then Jesus wouldn’t have to go prepare a place for him and then return for him.
When “today” is used in this context it’s to emphasize what is being said at that moment. What is being said applies to the future.
Jesus prepared the place for us and came back in 70 AD when the New Covenant was consummated and now when we die we do go straight to heaven into God’s presence. Jesus’ coming back was future to the thief and is history to us.
If you are a futurist and think Christ hasn’t returned yet then you have to believe that when you die you are heading off to Sheol until Christ returns for you. Hence, an advantage of being a full preterist.
“Your understanding of the inspiration of Scripture is utterly astounding!” Mel
Why thank you Mel!
Between the death on the cross and the resurrection where was Jesus ? He was not seen before the resurrection and he had not yet ascended.
We know by what He told the thief on the cross that on that day He was in paradise (Luke 23:43). I don't think it gets any clearer than that.![]()
We know that he ascended somewhere and then descended back to earth.
How do we know this?