Whitewash: New Texas history books will downplay slavery, omit KKK and Jim Crow

[Zaac]

Nope, he didn't seen anything inherently racist in the flag, and he was perfectly sane. (Sorry, if that doesn't fit your race-baiting narrative :smilewinkgrin: )

What he was was perfectly unaware of the history of that particular flag and why it become popular in the South.

Sorry if that doesn't fit your race-baiting, rewrite of history.

 

[Zaac]

The problem is that for most people who have those flags in the south, the flag does not represent the Confederacy. For most people who have those flags in the south, the flag does not represent racism. The animosity comes in when they are expected to remove symbols based on another's interpretation.


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Very true. But that's what happens when folks build their lives around a lie.

This is just the willful and unwillful ignorance of people who want to believe that the Battleflag of the Army of Northern Virginia is or ever was the flag of the Confederacy.

That flag was resurrected in the South for the purpose of the KKK and white supremacist to express their opposition to integration.

It has NOTHING to do with their heritage. If their heritage meant that much, they'd have sense enough to know that the flag they are waving IS NOT the flag of the Confederacy.

The folks who had it on the Georgia flag knew this as did the other states flying that symbol on their flags.

The 1956 Georgia General Assembly changed the state flag and added that symbol in as a direct response to preserving segregation and in resentment to the U.S. government's rulings on integration.

The crazy thing is that the CURRENT Georgia flag looks like on of the old flags of the Confederate states.

 

[Doubting Thomas]

What he was was perfectly unaware of the history of that particular flag and why it become popular in the South.

Sorry if that doesn't fit your race-baiting, rewrite of history.

Or it could be that this Southern black man was well aware of his history, and yet he knew enough good natured Southern white folks not to paint everyone who waves the CBF with a broad brush like you PC buffoons like to do. :thumbs:

 

[Zaac]

Or it could be that this Southern black man was well aware of his history,

Obviously NOT if he didn't see anything wrong with that flag as it relates to why Southerners started to fly it.

and yet he knew enough good natured Southern white folks not to paint everyone who waves the CBF with a broad brush like you PC buffoons like to do. :thumbs:

Umm, nobody painted all Southern white folks the same way. Some of them just don't know what they are talking about and are repeating the same sort of foolishness you have just because you heard someone else say it. THAT would be true buffoonery.

They, like the good natured Southern black man to whom you spoke, don't know the real reason why that flag started being flown by Southerners. And it has nothing to do with heritage.

So the folks who know better are taking it down from public property as they do recognize why it started being flown, and that the why had NOTHING to do with heritage.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Remembering is quite different from displaying symbols and the modern message those symbols. The original meaning of the Confederate flag had nothing to do with what it signifies now. We must always remember so we do not make the mistakes of the past. We do not need to display symbols that carry a negative message.

Nazi's rewrote history, as well.

Why don't you fly the British flag so you can remember the decades people of this country were citizens of England? That is part of your heritage also.

I have the Flag of Scotland on my wall.

 

[JonC]

Very true. But that's what happens when folks build their lives around a lie.

This is just the willful and unwillful ignorance of people who want to believe that the Battleflag of the Army of Northern Virginia is or ever was the flag of the Confederacy.

That flag was resurrected in the South for the purpose of the KKK and white supremacist to express their opposition to integration.

It has NOTHING to do with their heritage.

I understand what you are saying, Zaac. I have an issue with saying it is not having anything to do with their/our heritage. The rebel flag has come to symbolize something other than the Confederacy and something other than racism and the KKK. It has come to symbolize the South and a way of life. Now whether or not it was the best symbol is not important as it has become what it is. Your argument would have been valid a century ago, perhaps even latter. But it is not relevant now that the flag has meant something other than racism for a few generations.

This is the same argument that people apply to Christmas and Easter. Just because someone believes it to represent paganism (and it may to them) and just because some aspects may have originated with paganism does not make those Christians who celebrate Christmas and Easter pagans.

 

[carpro]

Yet Carpro has the audacity to say that most of them don't care one way or the other. SMH.

I live in Texas. Texas blacks, by and large, don't care one way or the other about the confederate flag. To undertstand that, you'd have to understand and acknowledge that the KKK was never that big in Texas and had almost been prosecuted out of existence by 1869.

I know that doesn't fit your trollish agend, but you just have to deal with it.

You're going to act like a troll no matter which band wagon you jump on.

Get over yourself, Jr.

 

[Zaac]

I understand what you are saying, Zaac. I have an issue with saying it is not having anything to do with their/our heritage. The rebel flag has come to symbolize something other than the Confederacy and something other than racism and the KKK.

And I get that too Jon. That's why I say willful and unwillful. Some folks just don't know any better and believe this to be the flag of their Confederate heritage simply because it's popular and folks say it's the "Confederate Flag".

I think if you explained to most people who feel that way that it is NOT the Flag of the Confederacy and then explain to them WHY the flag they think is the Confederate Flag started being flown in the South, I believe a large part of them would change their minds.

It has come to symbolize the South and a way of life. Now whether or not it was the best symbol is not important as it has become what it is.

It has symbolized to one demographic just what it did when it was popularized during the 50s and 60s.

Your argument would have been valid a century ago, perhaps even latter. But it is not relevant now that the flag has meant something other than racism for a few generations.

Incorrect as it has meant the same thing that it did before to Blacks so it's very relevant unless one thinks their realities are irrelevant.

This is the same argument that people apply to Christmas and Easter. Just because someone believes it to represent paganism (and it may to them) and just because some aspects may have originated with paganism does not make those Christians who celebrate Christmas and Easter pagans.

The country isn't separated over Christmas and Easter. Christmas and Easter weren't adopted in opposition to racial equality. So this again is one of those false equivalents.

 

[JonC]

I think if you explained to most people who feel that way that it is NOT the Flag of the Confederacy and then explain to them WHY the flag they think is the Confederate Flag started being flown in the South, I believe a large part of them would change their minds.

I don't think most would care whether or not it was at one time the Confederate Flag. If they don't know that the "rebel flag" is not the Confederate Flag then they probably don't care enough about Civil War history for it to matter. Most around where I live consider it a "rebel" flag. I know people (both black and white) who sport rebel flag stickers on their vehicles, and one black man who has a rebel flag tattoo. When I see the flag, I don't think Confederacy....I might think "redneck," but not "Confederacy."

Again, what the flag may or may not have symbolized centuries ago...or even fifty years ago...may not necessarily be the same thing it symbolizes today (indeed, for most that use the symbol it is not). It is an error to ascribe such antiquated meanings to contemporary issues.

 

[Zaac]

I live in Texas. Texas blacks, by and large, don't care one way or the other about the confederate flag.

They probably don't care about the Confederate Flag. I bet ya they darn sure do care about the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia.

To undertstand that, you'd have to understand and acknowledge that the KKK was never that big in Texas and had almost been prosecuted out of existence by 1869.

Man please. The KKK and other white supremacist groups are all over Texas. All it takes is a keyboard to see that.

I know that doesn't fit your trollish agend, but you just have to deal with it.

And I know the truth about good ole Texas doesn't fit your dishonest beliefs, but the rest of the country knows about Texas even if you want to deny it.

You're going to act like a troll no matter which band wagon you jump on.

Get over yourself, Jr.

[/QUOTE]

And you're gonna act like the dishonorable, dishonest person you've always shown yourself to be no matter what.

 

[targus]

Zaac, I am still waiting to hear what you have done and are doing to divest yourself of your unearned white privilege.

 

[Zaac]

I don't think most would care whether or not it was at one time the Confederate Flag. If they don't know that the "rebel flag" is not the Confederate Flag then they probably don't care enough about Civil War history for it to matter. Most around where I live consider it a "rebel" flag. I know people (both black and white) who sport rebel flag stickers on their vehicles, and one black man who has a rebel flag tattoo. When I see the flag, I don't think Confederacy....I might think "redneck," but not "Confederacy."

That's why I said unwillful ignorance. They don't know and don't care and thus will be in the category with the folks who fully understand what that flag means and fly it in support of those values.

Again, what the flag may or may not have symbolized centuries ago...or even fifty years ago...may not necessarily be the same thing it symbolizes today (indeed, for most that use the symbol it is not). It is an error to ascribe such antiquated meanings to contemporary issues.

It symbolizes today the same thing it did when Southerners started flying it in opposition to integration.

What it symbolized doesn't change just because some folks don't know or accept the history.

 

[JonC]

.







It symbolizes today the same thing it did when Southerners started flying it in opposition to integration.



What it symbolized doesn't change just because some folks don't know or accept the history.

So you advocate flying a rainbow flag symbolizing Gods faithfulness and provision? Symbols do change. It is unfortunate some are blind to history but it is just as (probably more so) unfortunate others only know antiquated definitions. The former is ignore of the past but the latter makes decisions ignorant of the present.

What you mean is that it symbolizes to you the same thing that it did when people used it to symbolize opposition to integration, and I do understand (and, believe it or not, respect) that. I think it foolish, however, that people are offended by so many of people's symbols (whether it is a rebel flag, a Malcolm X hat, a rainbow, or a cross) to the extent they feel justified insisting they are removed from public view. I do understand removing the flag from government buildings if the people represented by that government find the flag offensive and non-representative of themselves.

 

[Doubting Thomas]

Umm, nobody painted all Southern white folks the same way.

Sure they did--they (like you) are doing just that when you imply that just because SOME folks who started flying CBF in the 1950s were segragationists that ALL Southerners who are flying the CBF are doing so for that same reason. A lot of black folks know that is NOT the case.


By that logic, you might as well call the Stars/Stripes a symbol of "segragation/racism and slavery" (and accuse all those of flying it today of the same) and seek to have it removed as: (1) slavery existed under it's banner for longer period of time; and (2) the KKK marched in Washington DC in the 1920s waving 'Old Glory'.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Zaac, I am still waiting to hear what you have done and are doing to divest yourself of your unearned white privilege.

He yells at people behind the safety of anonymity the internet provides.

 

[Zaac]

So you advocate flying a rainbow flag symbolizing Gods faithfulness and provision?

Nope. If God didn't advocate for flying s rainbow flag in His word to symbolize that, why would I?

Symbols do change. It is unfortunate some are blind to history but it is just as (probably more so) unfortunate others only know antiquated definitions. The former is ignore of the past but the latter makes decisions ignorant of the present.

Is there any wonder when the same sort of racism and racial prejudice of the past is viewed by Blacks today?

What you mean is that it symbolizes to you the same thing that it did when people used it to symbolize opposition to integration,

Nope. What I mean is that the flag symbolizes to the majority of b lack people today the same thing it did when Southerners started flying it in opposition to integration during Jim Crow.

and I do understand (and, believe it or not, respect) that. I think it foolish, however, that people are offended by so many of people's symbols (whether it is a rebel flag, a Malcolm X hat, a rainbow, or a cross) to the extent they feel justified insisting they are removed from public view. I do understand removing the flag from government buildings if the people represented by that government find the flag offensive and non-representative of themselves.

We agree. I just don't think a government of the people should be tacitly or directly endorsing something that is symbolic of racism and hatred towards any one of its citizens.



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[targus]

He yells at people behind the safety of anonymity the internet provides.

I just thought that if he told us what he has done to liberate himself from his unearned white privilege then I would be able to do the same.

Not holding my breath though.

 

[JonC]

Nope. What I mean is that the flag symbolizes to the majority of b lack people today

Then perhaps they should take the time to see what it does mean to those who actually display the flag instead of relying on a prejudiced notion on what it means to them or meant to people in the past.


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[Revmitchell]

Then perhaps they should take the time to see what it does mean to those who actually display the flag instead of relying on a prejudiced notion on what it means to them or meant to people in the past.


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Exactly, we live in a world where how I take offense is more important than how people actually mean it.

 

[Zaac]

Then perhaps they should take the time to see what it does mean to those who actually display the flag instead of relying on a prejudiced notion on what it means to them or meant to people in the past.


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Why? They aren't at odds with what people think it means. They're at odds wIth what people said it meant when Southerners first started flying it. A lot of the people who were beaten and attacked with fire hoses and spit on and hospitalized, etc because they were for integration and Civil Rights for Blacks are still alive.

They know well what the flag means. And they have made sure that other Blacks today know what it means.

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