Rippon said:
I've made my postion ultra-clear regarding this topic on numerous past posts . But it never hurts to repeat Bible truths .
Except what you are espousing are not truths but non-biblical doctrines.
Christ Jesus died for ( on behalf of , in the stead of , in the room of ) certain sinners .
See? I told you it was non-biblical. Here's what the Bible itself says:
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
Hebrews 2:9
What part of 'everyone' is unclear?
The ones for which He died have had their names enrolled in the Lamb's Book of Life before the foundation of the world . They are the only ones to be saved . Even non-Cals have to admit that much .
Wrong. If this were true no one's name could be erased from the Book of Life. See Exodus 32:32-33 and Revelation 3:5.
I don't embrace hypothetical salvation . There was nothing potential about Christ's death . He came to secure salvation for His own . His death for His own satisfied the Father's wrath .
There is nothing hypothetical about salvation. Atonement was achieved on the cross, not salvation. Salvation is a personal matter between the individual and the Lord, but it would be impossible without the atonement for ALL people which was made on the cross. Everyone could be saved, but the Lord has left it up to each of us regarding how to respond to Him and to the truth, which in its totality, is Him. This is the primary message of the entire Bible.
Christ did not die for those whose condemnation has long been marked out .There are those for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever . He did not die for Cain , Esau , Judas , Pharaoh and a host of others down through the centuries .
According to the writer to the Hebrews, He died for all, one time for all. Evidently you disagree. This is one of the reasons I consider the Reformed theology to be non-biblical.
Christ died for His sheep -- not goats . He died for the ones He has loved . He died for the ones He knows -- not for the ones who He will declare : "I have never known you."
He died for all. He loved all. We are ALL His creation and He never created anything for the purpose of hating it. That is absolutely against His character, for John tells us simply that God IS love. If you look at the parable of the sheep and the goats you will find that the difference noted in the parable itself by Christ HIMSELF is what they did, not what they were. In fact, biologically, goats and sheep are the same animal, just as all dogs are the same animal. They have been bred through the ages to produce differently and thus were artificially speciated by man, just as dogs and horses have been, but they are the same animal. Therefore the claim that they were chosen because of what they were holds no water in this theological argument.
In addition, when He declared to the false teachers "I have never known you," Christ was NOT declaring He was not aware of who they were, first of all, but rather that He had not had a close, intimate relationship with them, regardless of the fact that they had, quite literally, used His Name in vain. You are pulling these references WILDLY out of context in order to support your non-biblical position in theology. That does not fly.
The Lord did not die for any who will go to the Lake of Fire . He did not die for their sins only for them to face an eternity to pay for those same sins .
That is not what the Bible says. The Bible clearly states that God so loved the world, that He is not willing that one should perish, but that all should come to repentance. He tasted death for everyone, one time for all. These things are extraordinarily clearly stated. Christ died to atone for sins -- all sins. The debt was paid in full, as He Himself declared when He used the financial term for debt paid on the cross, "It is finished!"
He told the people clearly what was required for salvation on their parts:
You are from below ['kato' -- meaning 'the ground', 'the earth' -- it does not mean 'hell' and never did];
I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins.
John 8:23-24
The phrase "I am the one I claim to be" is, in the Greek "ego eimi" which, when literally translated, means "I am I am" -- He was using the name by which God identified Himself to Moses.
Thus, these listeners clearly had a choice presented to them by Jesus Himself. Would they believe He is God, yes or no? That choice is presented to each of us and on our answer hangs our eternal destiny. The way to salvation was provided for every person alive by Christ, but He left it up to us to accept or reject (neither of which is a 'work').
He died for the Church , His Body , His Bride , His elect , His children , His own , His purchased possession . With His blood He purchased for God members of every tribe and language and poeople and nation . He died for the church of God which He purchased with His own blood . Christ loved US and gave himself up for US = the church which He loved . He did not love and die for the non-church . He died for His sheep . He laid down His life for them .
Yes, He did. He also died for the whole world, which is clearly stated in the Bible several times.
All that the Father gives to Jesus will come to Him , and no one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws them . The drawing always results in a saving union with the Lord -- there is nothing partial about it .
That's true. But the Father draws those who want the truth. This is the lesson of Romans 1. This is also the call of Christ:
"Come to me all ye that labor and are heavy-laden..." It amazes me to think that this verse might be twisted to either change the meaning of 'all' or to somehow put forward the absurd idea that only the souls predestined to be saved are somehow those who labor and are heavy-laden!
So He set His love upon some -( foreknowledge ) - the ones of His choosing . He predestined them , called them , justified them , and glorified ( spoken in the past tense because it is certain ) them .
If you take a look at the predestination passages IN CONTEXT, you will find that believers are predestined to become changed to be the image of Christ, and that the method of that change was predestined. The Bible NEVER states that it is predestined about who would believe.
Reformed theology is a horrifying model which brings despair to many and quite a bit of very evident pride and snottiness to others. The attitude of many of the Calvinists here (those who believe in Reformed theology) is something I have cringed to watch over all the years I have been on Baptist Board. I simply do not find the character of Christ in much of what is written here by Calvinists, and it is THAT which should be seen in anyone who is His true follower.
