Who has more education?

[gb93433]

If I needed heart surgery I would not go to an undertaker who has seen many more hearts. Instead I would want the very best heart surgeon. Money would not be an option. But so often we entrust ourselves and our children to an uneducated person because we simply do not value both education and wisdom. Education is not a substitute for wisdom nut neither can wisdom be gained especially in some areas without correct study and knowing the truth.

My second pastorate was followed on the heels of an uneducated man and was it ever trying. They liked him but didn't realize how ignorant they really were. That kind of thing created a situation where they didn't know who to believe unless they knew the truth already.

 

[TexasSky]

My Pastor.

But even the secular world acknowledges the wisdom of Solomn, and he didn't have a high school diploma.

I have worked in higher education for decades, and I have a tremendous love of education, and am a strong supporter of learning, but education is something worldly. It changes with the times, and it is often not "correct" due to the fact that man is fallable, and that man has limited knowledge.

The more we learn, the more we realize we know nothing.

 

[TexasSky]

One thing you need to remember about education - it is the sharing of knowledge gained by others.

The foundations of edcuation are the experience and wisdom of those who came before and who recorded and shared what they learned via experience.

Stop a moment, and consider everything you have accepted on faith because a teacher, textbook, or professor told you that it was so, but which you have never had the time or ability to "test" yourself.

There are educated men of God who are good ministers of God, and there are educated ministers who are not men of God. There are uneducated men of God who are GOOD men of God and good teachers of God's word, and there are educated men who try to teach about God and never met Him.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by TexasSky:
My Pastor.

But even the secular world acknowledges the wisdom of Solomn, and he didn't have a high school diploma.

You must understand that for a person to know how to read in that day meant he was highly educated.

 

[TexasSky]

I stand by my assertion that he had no high school diploma.

YOU must understand - that in his age - the most educated men were the high priests of the age. NOT the king.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by TexasSky:
The more we learn, the more we realize we know nothing.

That's what happens when you gain wisdom and humility. That kind of thing promotes learning and zeal.

A dangerous person is one who does not know what he doesn't know.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by TexasSky:


Stop a moment, and consider everything you have accepted on faith because a teacher, textbook, or professor told you that it was so, but which you have never had the time or ability to "test" yourself.

There are educated men of God who are good ministers of God, and there are educated ministers who are not men of God. There are uneducated men of God who are GOOD men of God and good teachers of God's word, and there are educated men who try to teach about God and never met Him.

That is the reason why the primary requirement of any pastor is to be tested first. This is done in the fire of making disciples. No man should be assigned to lead a church if he first has not won people and led by discipling them. How can one who has never led anyone expect to lead a church and they be his experiment? This has happened and is happening all over the US today.

A man who has does not have proof of anyone living for Christ because of his life whom he has not discipled is not a leader. Yet we have theological school with teachers who have never discipled anyone and pastors who do not know how to disciple someone.

The parachurch organization I was in required that before a person was given a Bible study of people that he must have led someone else first in a Bible study he started on his own. Yet we give churches to men want to pastor yet never asking about the primary requirement of discipling people first. Not one churhc ever asked me if I had discipled anyone. Most often they wanted to hear me preach and know what programs I liked. Every time I had to explain what discipleship was. Some got scared and it never went any further. But every church I pastored grew by discipleship and evangelism.

If Henry Ford were alive today would he rather have a few good running Fords on the road or thousands in the junk yard?

 

[bapmom]

Convicted by the Spirit,

I have no problem with education either.....

BUT I DO have a problem with those who CONTINUALLY bring up questions like this, implying that the pastors of our country are ignorant and backwards and that we ought only have those men in the pulpit who have massive degrees behind their names.

I do not object to the basic theme which YOU brought out, Convicted, but I do not believe that was the intent of the OPer, based on many things Ive seen written and discussed around this board.

 

[Artimaeus]

As a former teacher, I highly value education and think anyone oppossed to it has rocks in their head. That being said, it is ridiculous to assert that education equals qualification for particular jobs. Who has more education Travis Ford (Coach of UMass) or Shaquille O'Neal? Does that mean that Travis Ford would make a better center for the Los Angelos Lakers? There is an old saying in basketball, "You can't teach height." In the spiritual realm the saying would be, "You can't teach heart." The Holy Spirit chooses those who are overseeing the church, not academia.

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

The overseers should highly value learning and if that learning takes place in an ascademic setting then fine, but it is not a litmus test.

1 Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
1 Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1 Co 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

Education is not a criterion for God and shouldn't be for us either. Vets OTOH... I'm taking "Sparky" to the best technician I can find.

 

[fatbacker]

What if the pastor was a veterinarian does that change things?...lol bark bark

 

[TexasSky]

One of the things that strikes me most about this thread is the fact that most of the first schools in the world, especially institutes of higher education, were founded by men of God.

Baylor University dates back to 1845.

Yale's first Presidents from 1641 to 1795 were Rectors or ministers.

Princeton was established by Presbyterians, and was originally meant to train ministers.

Havard, the oldest university in the United States is named after its first benefactor, John Harvard, a minister.

The first of what are now public schools were founded by missionaries.

(No, I'm not ignoring the Greek schools of Philosophy, but then again, even today the world jokes that if you majored in Philosophy you work at McDonalds.)

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Rachel:
There are many great men of God out there that don't have a ton of "education" from schools.

True, but there are a ton folks out there who belittle great men of God just because the have an education.

Why? Sin nature, imo. A person having more education than us brings out a form of envy. Unfortunately, that form of envy seems to be acceptible amongst Christians, especially in the pastorate.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by just-want-peace:
Reading this board convinces me that far too many are educated beyond their intelligence... </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Pro 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Education is a poor substitute, but often used for "wisdom"! </font>[/QUOTE]You might want to reread that verse: Fear of the Lord is the BEGINNING of wisdom. I would question a man who claims to be called to the pastorate, but refused to educate himself thereafter.

 

[Pete]

The oldest one.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Johnv:
True, but there are a ton folks out there who belittle great men of God just because they have an education.

I experienced that in one church I pastored but it seems that most appreciate a pastor who works hard and is educated. A man who has the tools to do the job, can do it faster and better leaving more time for ministry and not just trying to figure something out with other helps.

It like the old thought among those in the trades. If you see a man's tools it tells you a lot about his skills.

There are many generations who have gone before us who respected those with an education. Today there are those who only respect the buck and how much of it someone has. Too often the excuses are given by those who try to escape the hard work of others who have achieved.

 

[TexasSky]

My Pastor sometimes tells this half-joking, half-seriously.

"When I was a young Christian, I thought people would respect me if I became a Minister. I was wrong. Then I thought they would respect me if I got a college education. I was wrong. Then I thought, surely, graduating with a doctorate in divinity, and with top honors in my class I had finally earned respect. Then I met a deacon ...."

 

[Craigbythesea]

blackbird wrote,

What do's it matter, no how????

Let’s suppose just for a moment that you are the pastor of a Baptist church and a young Bible college student attending your church is studying the "Bema seat judgment of Christ" at the Bible college. Let’s further suppose that he asks you, his pastor, “Just exactly what does the word “bema” mean?” Do you know the answer? Does your pastor know the answer? Would you know the answer if you actually were that pastor?

A very common approach to Bible study among pastors who are seriously lacking in their education is to “let the Bible interpret the Bible.” Let’s see how that works in this case and open up your Strong’s concordance—whoops! It’s not there! Let’s try the word “seat” and see what happens.

 

[Craigbythesea]

We find that the word “seat” appears 59 times in 54 verses throughout the Bible. Let’s limit our search to the New Testament and see what we find,

We find that the word “seat” appears 15 times in 15 verses in the King James New Testament, and that it is used to translate four different Greek words. A quick reading of the 15 verses shows us that we are interested in the word “seat” when it is a translation of the Greek word βημα (bēma) to which James Strong assigned the number “968.” If we turn to Strong’s Greek dictionary in the back of his concordance, we find that word #968 is translated in the KJV three different ways,

1. Judgment seat
2. Set [foot] on
3. throne

 

[Craigbythesea]

Returning to the concordance itself, we find that Greek word #968 appears 12 times in the Greek New Testament. When we look up the English words “judgment seat,” we find that the KJV translates Greek word #968 ten times as “judgment seat,”

Matt. 27:19. When he was set down on the judgment seat, his wife sent unto him, saying, Have thou nothing to do with that just man: for I have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him.

John 19:13. When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.

Act 18:12. And when Gallio was the deputy of Achaia, the Jews made insurrection with one accord against Paul, and brought him to the judgment seat,

Acts 18:16. And he drave them from the judgment seat.
17. Then all the Greeks took Sosthenes, the chief ruler of the synagogue, and beat him before the judgment seat. And Gallio cared for none of those things.

Acts 25:6. Then all the Greeks took Sosthenes, the chief ruler of the synagogue, and beat him before the judgment seat. And Gallio cared for none of those things.

Acts 25:10. Then said Paul, I stand at Caesar's judgment seat, where I ought to be judged: to the Jews have I done no wrong, as thou very well knowest.

Acts 25:17. Therefore, when they were come hither, without any delay on the morrow I sat on the judgment seat, and commanded the man to be brought forth.

Rom 14:10. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

2 Cor. 5:10. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

 

[Craigbythesea]

When we look up the English word “foot,” we find that the KJV translates Greek word #968 once as “foot” (Acts 7:5). When we look up the English word “throne,” we find that the KJV translates Greek word #968 once as “throne” (Acts 12:21).

If we carefully study and compare all twelve verses in the New Testament in which the Greek word βημα (bēma) occurs—without the help of any lexicons, dictionaries, or commentaries—we are going to arrive at a VERY wrong conclusion as to just exactly what the word “bema” means.

So, what does the word “bema” mean? If we look up the word in lexicons and dictionaries, we will find a wide variety of “meanings” Which one of these meanings gives us the answer to our original question, “Just exactly what does the word “bema” mean?”