Who has more education?

[gb93433]

Originally posted by TexasSky:
The Pastors of the first century didn't get anywhere? You mean other than changing the world, other than being the bricks that were laid upon the foundation of Christ which has spread the church all over the world?

In many ways they were extremely well trained. They were with the master 24/7 for about three years. Think of the testing of their faith and strenthening of their whole being.

When was the last time anyone went out from a church two by two without anything?

 

[Craigbythesea]

DHK posted,

What are you suggesting. Pardon me, but it sounds absurd. Are you suggesting that each man, called of God, must meet a minimal government standard or else he cannot be ordained as a pastor. That sounds like Communism. It sounds very familiar to what goes on under the repressive regime of China today. Only those that are govrnment approved ministers have the freedom to be a "minister." Of course their freedom to preach the true gospel is thwarted by the governemt. The real Christians are underground, many of which have already been in prison and many still are in prison for their faith. "A government-regulated ministry? Are you really serious?

I am VERY serious. Our Baptist churches need to set higher standards for their pastors BEFORE our government finds it necessary to do it to protect our children from the dangers inherent in ignorance.

 

[Craigbythesea]

Artimaeus asked,

What "required" education?

I have already answered that question, but I will answer it again. Well educated pastors, whether they got their education from Princeton Theological Seminary, the University of Chicago, or, as was the case with Spurgeon, from countless hours of personal study under the guidance of pastors who did have the privilege of the Ivory Tower education, avail themselves of thousands of academic tools the very use of which require a very substantial knowledge of Hebrew, Greek, Latin, German, and French on top of a very substantial knowledge of the English language.

Charles Spurgeon, one of our very own Baptist brothers, expressed the matter as follows:

In order to be able to expound the Scriptures, and as an aid to your pulpit studies, you will need to be familiar with the commentators: a glorious army, let me tell you, whose acquaintance will be your delight and profit. Of course, you are not such wiseacres as to think or say that you can expound Scripture without assistance from the works of divines and learned men who have laboured before you in the field of exposition. If you are of that opinion, pray remain so, for you are not worth the trouble of conversion, and like a little coterie who think with you, would resent the attempt as an insult to your infallibility. It seems odd, that certain men who talk so much of what the Holy Spirit reveals to themselves, should think so little of what he has revealed to others. My chat this afternoon is not for these great originals, but for you who are content to learn of holy men, taught of God, and mighty in the Scriptures. It has been the fashion of late years to speak against the use of commentaries. If there were any fear that the expositions of Matthew Henry, Gill, Scott, and others, would be exalted into Christian Targums, we would join the chorus of objectors, but the existence or approach of such a danger we do not suspect. The temptations of our times lie rather in empty pretensions to novelty of sentiment, than in a slavish following of accepted guides. A respectable acquaintance with the opinions of the giants of the past, might have saved many an erratic thinker from wild interpretations and outrageous inferences. Usually, we have found the despisers of commentaries to be men who have no sort of acquaintance with them; in their case, it is the opposite of familiarity which has bred contempt. It is true there are a number of expositions of the whole Bible which are hardly worth shelf room; they aim at too much and fail altogether; the authors have spread a little learning over a vast surface, and have badly attempted for the entire Scriptures what they might have accomplished for one book with tolerable success; but who will deny the preeminent value of such expositions as those of Calvin, Ness, Henry, Trapp, Poole, and Bengel, which are as deep as they are broad? and yet further, who can pretend to biblical learning who has not made himself familiar with the great writers who spent a life in explaining some one sacred book? Caryl on Job will not exhaust the patience of a student who loves every letter of the Word; even Collinges, with his nine hundred and nine pages upon one chapter of the Song, will not be too full for the preacher's use; nor will Manton's long metre edition of the hundred and nineteenth Psalm (Psalm 119:1-176) be too profuse. No stranger could imagine the vast amount of real learning to be found in old commentaries like the following:—Durham on Solomon's Song, Wilcocks on Psalms and Proverbs, Jermin on Ecclesiastes and Proverbs, Greenhill on Ezekiel, Burroughs on Hosea, Ainsworth on the Pentateuch, King on Jonah, Hutcheson on John, Peter Martyr on Romans, &c., and in Willett, Sibbes, Bayne, Elton, Byfield, Daille, Adams, Taylor, Barlow, Goodwin, and others on the various epistles. Without attempting to give in detail the names of all, I intend in a familiar talk to mention the more notable, who wrote upon the whole Bible, or on either Testament, and I especially direct your attention to the titles, which in Puritan writers generally give in brief the run of the work.

 

[blackbird]

Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
DHK posted,

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> What are you suggesting. Pardon me, but it sounds absurd. Are you suggesting that each man, called of God, must meet a minimal government standard or else he cannot be ordained as a pastor. That sounds like Communism. It sounds very familiar to what goes on under the repressive regime of China today. Only those that are govrnment approved ministers have the freedom to be a "minister." Of course their freedom to preach the true gospel is thwarted by the governemt. The real Christians are underground, many of which have already been in prison and many still are in prison for their faith. "A government-regulated ministry? Are you really serious?

I am VERY serious. Our Baptist churches need to set higher standards for their pastors BEFORE our government finds it necessary to do it to protect our children from the dangers inherent in ignorance.

</font>[/QUOTE]Just a question here---how's the government of th United States of America gonna find out how educated and how ignorant which pastor is??? According to the US Constitution----the Feds will not intrude upon religion---so I am lead to believe

 

[TexasSky]

Blackbird,

If you think a little detail like "we don't have the information" will bother the government you've been blessed with very little dealing with the government.

I love my country, but I don't think "logic" applies to them. Case in point - we are told that it is against the law for us to ask an employment applicant what their race, religion or gender is. However - we are also required by law to report statistics regarding how many people of various races, religions, and genders applied for the job, and to justify why we hired whoever we hire.

I brought this up at a meeting once and said, "How can we report the data if we are forbidden to gather the data?" The personnel director shrugged and said, "Ask your Congressman."

 

[Craigbythesea]

blackbird wrote,

Just a question here---how's the government of th United States of America gonna find out how educated and how ignorant which pastor is???

They might begin by reading the posts on this message board!

 

[Bro Tony]

They might begin by reading the posts on this message board!

Nice!

 

[Craigbythesea]

You forgot the six 's!

 

[Bro Tony]

No I tried to copy them and it would not

See the big space under the writing?

 

[blackbird]

Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
blackbird wrote,

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Just a question here---how's the government of th United States of America gonna find out how educated and how ignorant which pastor is???

They might begin by reading the posts on this message board!

</font>[/QUOTE]Well, in that case---I can hardly wait to see "dufus" decipher "dufus" and then jail him for not knowin' any more than it is that he knows right now!!

PS----Craig---I hope you don't mind---but I had to edit two of your 's to put in the one I wanted!! Sorry, dude!! The Fed's made me do it!!!

 

[Craigbythesea]

Originally posted by Bro Tony:
No I tried to copy them and it would not

See the big space under the writing?

At least you tried to copy them. A reasonable, honest effort is all that I am asking of anyone—including those who called by God to serve His people as pastors of His Flock.

 

[Bro Tony]

A reasonable, honest effort is all that I am asking of anyone—including those who called by God to serve His people as pastors of His Flock.

On that we are both in full agreement. No one should give the Lord or His church second best.

Bro Tony