But that’s not the same as hell enlarging itself daily. I’ve heard that saying my whole life and it’s not same as those two verses you posted.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Who Is Drawn by the Father?
- Thread starter Reformed1689
- Start date
- Status
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Was Montezuma I (1398-1469), the second Aztec emperor and fifth king of Tenochtitlan, as well as the father of Montezuma II (famous for being the first meso-American king to meet the Spanish explorers) drawn to a Christ he had never heard of? He died before the first Christian reached the Americas, but he was part of "all men without exception".
Rockson
Active Member
On the other hand though even such ones have a desire after God albeit perhaps not according to perfect knowledge. It seems Calvinists always hold to the sinner doesn't even have a desire for God or anything in them to seek him. But they do but yes not all have their motives right.
Jesus Saves!
Active Member
Hell enlarges for every time someone dies without Christ. I would say many times daily.
A men That is what I believe.
MB
The interesting thing is Hell is just large enough for all that belong there. No larger or, smaller.
MB
How is it that would know such a thing. Are you mind reader ? Why not read it for your self? It has a much more meaningful effect when you do.
MB
So you do not believe God is omniscient?No one - NNE - is born with no chance for salvation, automatically predestined to hell!
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for **ANY** to perish but for all to come to repentance.
If you do, how can you reject that things are predestined to occur exactly as God knows they will occur?
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
nope , all sinners are destined for hell, unless other arrangements are madeNo one - N
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for **ANY** to perish but for all to come to repentance.
We do to hell over His dead body
That is not what the text is saying my friend. Not at all.
Therefore Sheol has enlarged its throat and opened its mouth without measure; And Jerusalem’s splendor, her multitude, her din of revelry and the jubilant within her, descend into it.
“Sheol from beneath is excited over you to meet you when you come; It arouses for you the spirits of the dead, all the leaders of the earth; It raises all the kings of the nations from their thrones.
This is talking about the grave, sheol, not hell.
Rockson
Active Member
And as I'm sure you're aware there are various thoughts on just what predestination means. One that it's according to God's foreknowledge not that he directs by determination Person A saved and not B.
But anyone can BECOME elect. Otherwise, there's no use for Bibles or worship.
Peter didn't write that statement of his own volition.
It'd indeed be a contradiction for God to say He doesn't wish anyone to perish, but then create souls He intended to perish.
That's why God provides salvation from hell thru His Son Jesus.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
No, not anyone can become elect. They were chosen before the foundation of the world.
Yet that is exactly what Scripture tells us that God did. God created men God knew would perish and they serve God's purpose.
I do not see those passages (you offer Peter and I've offered Paul) as denying the other.
God can desire none perish while at the same time creating people He knows will perish and this be in accordance with His will.
We also need to consider the idea of God choosing may be anthropomorphic (as it indicates a less than omniscient God...i.e. deciding on the best of two choices). This does not change the idea of people themselves being chosen.
Rockson
Active Member
But then again don't we see that Ephesians 1 states we were chosen "In Christ". It does not say we were chosen to be In Christ. I'd suggest big difference.
- Status