Since you are so educated and intelligent, how did you not see that is what I have explained?
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Who really was Jesus Christ?
- Thread starter evangelist-7
- Start date
Since you are so educated and intelligent, how did you not see that is what I have explained?
evangelist-7
New Member
The Word (Logos) was originally clothed in Heaven with an incorruptible body.
After He came to earth, He became flesh (clothed in a corruptible body).
After this body died, He returned to Heaven in His incorruptible body.
The Word (Logos) now lives again in Heaven in His incorruptible body.
I posted this because it reminded me of Paul's language re: the 2 different types of bodies.
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savedbymercy
New Member
Christ did not have a corruptible Body, ever ! That is Blasphemy ! I suppose you believe the God Man was a sinner also or that He could have sinned in His Body of Flesh ?
Though I believe the teaching of evangelist-7 is in great error, Jesus had to have a corruptible body. His flesh was subject to the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. It suffered decay like yours and mine. When he was scourged great chunks of flesh fell to the ground. That is decay and corruption. He lost blood. More decay. His visage was so marred he was unrecognizable. There was much decay and corruption. But in his resurrection it was all restored to a perfect and incorruptible body.
savedbymercy
New Member
dhk
Then you are saying He was made liken unto Adam, a Corruptible man ! That is Blasphemy as well !
When ? You need to show scripture for such an outrages claim. Look Christ's Physical Body grew and developed and matured as Adam's Natural Children would have if they had not ever sinned, man would have remained in a Natural state of innocence ! There would not have been any decay or death !
.
Sure why not ? Thats an external infliction, Flesh in innocence was still a flesh substance, it was not cast iron !
Sure, through infliction, that is not decay !
Still no decay from within ! All of these causes are External, nothing denoting self deterioration, I do not Believe He was ever sick, not even a common cold !
Now if you can prove He ever became ill or suffered any of the common bodily ailments that we as men do suffer, then you would have a point, but until then, you speak as one very unlearned !
Then you are saying He was made liken unto Adam, a Corruptible man ! That is Blasphemy as well !
When ? You need to show scripture for such an outrages claim. Look Christ's Physical Body grew and developed and matured as Adam's Natural Children would have if they had not ever sinned, man would have remained in a Natural state of innocence ! There would not have been any decay or death !
.
Sure why not ? Thats an external infliction, Flesh in innocence was still a flesh substance, it was not cast iron !
Sure, through infliction, that is not decay !
Still no decay from within ! All of these causes are External, nothing denoting self deterioration, I do not Believe He was ever sick, not even a common cold !
Now if you can prove He ever became ill or suffered any of the common bodily ailments that we as men do suffer, then you would have a point, but until then, you speak as one very unlearned !
evangelist-7
New Member
So, here we have another Christian who is so deluded it's unbelievable.
If he actually believes that Mary did have a baby called Jesus:
-- he doesn't believe this baby could feel hunger, pain, etc.
-- he doesn't believe this baby grew up into a man
-- he doesn't believe this man ate fish with his disciples
and many etc.
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evangelist-7
New Member
Please be specific as to my great error.
I just found one myself ...
The Word (Logos) was originally clothed in Heaven with an incorruptible body.
After He came to earth, He became flesh (clothed in a corruptible body).
He returned to Heaven in bodily form (Luke 24:51) ... but with a corruptible or incorruptible body?
The Word (Logos) now lives again in Heaven ... but with a corruptible or incorruptible body?
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savedbymercy
New Member
Christ became a mortal man, which means He was subject to death, specifically the death of the Cross.
Yes, He could hunger, feel pain, grow in wisdom, but I do not believe He could become sick, nor could He sin, unlike the man Adam in his innocence.
Yes, He was born of Mary, but I have discussed that here already, if you want to know what I believe see :
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=77206
Show scripture that says Jesus could not become sick and could not sin. Show the scripture or stop arguing against people things that you are making up.
Jesus came as a human man. Jesus did NOT sin, but for you to suggest he could NOT sin is making Jesus not human, and making the temptation of Satan in the wilderness a joke.
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Christ was/is a sub title given to him as being the 'Annoited One" sent from God, Messiah...
jesus was the Second person of the Godhead who came to earth and became a man, Being with BOTh fully God and human natures!
As a man, could suffer, be tried and tempted as I am, but as God, could/would not sin!
You said he could suffer pain. I am sure he did; many times. Some pain is from illness. Can you prove he didn't have any illness at any time. No. Your argument is entirely from silence. In fact if you study the crucifixion carefully you will find that the long process of his death was from the shutting down of one organ after another. The shutting down even of one organ is an illness in and of itself. The shutting down of the kidneys is simple kidney failure, and so on.
What did he endure during the temptation?
What about other times in his life that are not recorded?
You have no definitive evidence to support your theory.
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evangelist-7
New Member
I feel that I should clarify what I've been presenting in this thread ...
(1) The Word (the Logos) and Jesus Christ are NOT exactly the same because Jesus was also "fully man".
(2) IMO, the Word (the Logos) was/is the Second Person of the Triune Godhead.
(3) IMO, the names/titles "Jesus" and "the Son of God" (when used in connection with Jesus Christ)
were first introduced by Gabriel in Matthew 1:21 and Luke 1:31,35.
..... I.E. these 2 names/titles did NOT exist in Heaven prior to this event.
And no one, thus far, here or elsewhere, has proven me to be wrong about any of the above.
But I'm open to the possibility.
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Fred's Wife
Member
RE: Point #3
The titles/names "Jesus" "Christ"/"Messiah" were introduced BEFORE Matthew 1:21
and Luke 1:31,35. They ALWAYS existed in heaven because they were known to the OT prophets.
The name "Jesus" is Greek equivalent of the Hebrew name Joshua"/Jehoshua (Numbers 13:19; 1 Chronicles 7:27) which means "Savior" (Isaiah 43:3,15,21; 45:21; 49:26; 60:16; 63:8, etc.) "Christ" is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew word Messiah, meaning anointed, and refers to Jesus as the Messiah promised in O.T. Scripture in Daniel 9:25-26.
In Isaiah 9:6 "a son is given" is speaking of the Son of God. In Daniel 7:13, Jesus is called "Son of man" Daniel 3:25 speaks of the "fourth man in the fire" as the "Son of God".
Jesus Christ existed eternally as the Son of God.
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evangelist-7
New Member
Joshua, Moses' pupil, was not Jesus Christ ... he was a guy called Joshua, Moses' pupil.
The promised Messiah (the Christ) was just that ... promised.
All prophecies about Him are hereby null and void by the official decree of a lesser trinity (me, myself, and I).
Isaiah 9:6 ... can easily mean that God will "give" the Son of God to the world to be evangelized by Him.
But, of course, this would only be after He has been born of the virgin Mary.
Daniel 7:13 ... this is good ... but, he was only "like" the Son of Man (not the Son of God).
Daniel 3:25 ... this is good ... but, he was only "like" the Son of God.
Kudos for you ... for these last two! ... Hey, that rhymes.
If Fred's wife is this good, I can't imagine what Fred is like!
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Here are some scriptures to consider carefully, that Jesus was the Son of God even before he came to earth.
The Bible teaches that the Son has eternally existed in the bosom of the Father. John 1:18 translated literally from the Greek says this: “No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, THE ONE EVER BEING (existing) IN THE BOSOM OF THE FATHER, He hath declared Him.”
There are passages that speak of the Father SENDING the Son all imply that Christ existed as the Son prior to coming to earth, 1 John 4:10, 14; John 3:16; John 20:21; Galatians 4:4.
Does not Proverbs 30:4 tell us that God had a “son”?
However, Jesus being called “the Son of God,” might only be what Jesus was called after coming to earth, but it does not mean that Jesus did not exist as Jesus before coming to earth.
Melchisedec was “without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life” (Hebrews 7:3). As to His humanity, Christ did have a mother, a genealogy, beginning of days, an end of His life when He died on the cross. So, with that in mind, maybe Jesus was not actually called God’s Son prior to coming to earth. The way of Melchisedec may or may not imply that Jesus was not considered a Son before coming to earth...something definitely to consider deeply.
God, who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see, only Jesus has seen Him, the invisible God, Jesus was created in His image, before the creation of the world, and who is the reincarnate Jesus. God calls Jesus His Son when Jesus was on earth, and Jesus was created in God's image before coming to earth, so why not be called the Son of God then too?
These next two scriptures are about God the Father...
1 Timothy 6:16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.
1 Timothy 1:17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
And these next scriptures are about Jesus...
John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
This next scripture says God has spoken to us in these last days by His Son...and through whom also He made the universe...so, would not it be reasonable to believe that this scripture is saying the universe was made through the Son.
Hebrews 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
The Bible teaches that the Son has eternally existed in the bosom of the Father. John 1:18 translated literally from the Greek says this: “No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, THE ONE EVER BEING (existing) IN THE BOSOM OF THE FATHER, He hath declared Him.”
There are passages that speak of the Father SENDING the Son all imply that Christ existed as the Son prior to coming to earth, 1 John 4:10, 14; John 3:16; John 20:21; Galatians 4:4.
Does not Proverbs 30:4 tell us that God had a “son”?
However, Jesus being called “the Son of God,” might only be what Jesus was called after coming to earth, but it does not mean that Jesus did not exist as Jesus before coming to earth.
Melchisedec was “without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life” (Hebrews 7:3). As to His humanity, Christ did have a mother, a genealogy, beginning of days, an end of His life when He died on the cross. So, with that in mind, maybe Jesus was not actually called God’s Son prior to coming to earth. The way of Melchisedec may or may not imply that Jesus was not considered a Son before coming to earth...something definitely to consider deeply.
God, who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see, only Jesus has seen Him, the invisible God, Jesus was created in His image, before the creation of the world, and who is the reincarnate Jesus. God calls Jesus His Son when Jesus was on earth, and Jesus was created in God's image before coming to earth, so why not be called the Son of God then too?
These next two scriptures are about God the Father...
1 Timothy 6:16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.
1 Timothy 1:17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
And these next scriptures are about Jesus...
John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
This next scripture says God has spoken to us in these last days by His Son...and through whom also He made the universe...so, would not it be reasonable to believe that this scripture is saying the universe was made through the Son.
Hebrews 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
Names are given by God to describe the character of a person or a promise about that person. Abram is called Abraham because God promise that he would be a Father of many nations.
The baby in Matthew 1:21 is called Jesus because the term "Jesus" characterizes who he really is. The term Jesus means "Jehovah is salvation" or "Jehovah will save." Matthew 1:21 describes the second half of this name while Matthew 1:23 describes the first half of this name "Immanuel" being interpreted "the God with us."
Hence, according to the meaning of the name "Jesus" He is identified as the Old Testament Jehovah who saves His people. He is called "the Christ" which is the Old Testament name "annointed One" identified over and over again in the book of Isaiah as the "Holy One" of Israel or the God of Israel.
Hence, in regard to the usuage and meaning of names you are simply wrong as both "Jesus" and "Christ" are Old Testament PREINCARNATE names for the Second Person of the Trinity.
However, you are correct that the preincarnate Jesus (Jehovah who saves) or "Christ" the "holy one of Israel" did not have a physical body until the incarnation. However, this new humanity was TAKEN UPON the Same preincarnate Jesus Christ or Jehovah who Saves the Holy One of Israel thus "Immanuel" or "The God with us."