WHO told you that you were naked?

So Ken, like I said, I'm gonna have to disagree with ya. You want to take Genesis as nothing more than fables and/or predictions; I view it as an historical record, foretelling the Plan.

As for you and Moses, well, remember what God told Moses: Exodus 4:14 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Moses, and he said, Is not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart.
15 And thou shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do.
16 And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth.

Maybe you need to go find your Aaron?....

 

Don.

I think that God had Arron find Moses. Maybe God has already gotten me a Arron.

The Ancient of Days: Jesus was alive with God for 1,000 years before Bethlehem. How more Ancient can one be?

Power is given to the Saints of the Most High. OK, Peter, put the Sword away. You might have won this battle, but the 144 with Judas gets the Victory. And Jesus is the Spoil.

The 144 with Judas seen in Revelation chapter 14 as 144,000 (Multiplied by 1,000 in Deuteronomy 1:11) are WITHOUT FAULT before the Throne of God, they are the Saints of the Most High, they are doing the will of the Father.

the 144 with Judas seen as a wall in Revelation 21:17. Added the Cubit and reached Angel status (according to the measure of a man, that is of the Angel). God gives His angels charge over THEE. As they come to get Jesus.

They Gather all things that offend, and Jesus has the sin of the world.

The Battle in Daniel is the same as the Battle with Michael and His angels (Judas and the 144) and the Devil and His angels, or Jesus and the Disciples.

And their place is not found in Heaven anymore, as Old Heaven ended at Midnight, New Heaven is noon to sunset, so they gatehr from one end of Heaven to the other end of Heaven.

(DANIEL 7:20) And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. (KJV)

Jesus is the HEAD of the first six hours. From sunset to Midnight, He is the Tail of the Second six hours, or He is BENEATH. The ten horns is the ten disciples that fled, Peter is the horn that replaced three, it was Peter, James and John, now just Peter.

The Very great things was Peter telling Jesus those things would not happen to Him, and that He would not deny Jesus.

(DEUTERONOMY 28:13) And the Lord shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the Lord thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them: (KJV)

(DANIEL 7:21) I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; (KJV)

The Disciples won the battle as Peter cut off the ear, that is why Jesus had to tell them to put away the swords.

(DANIEL 7:22) Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. (KJV)

This is at Midnight as the 144 with Judas are now in charge over Jesus.

(JOHN 18:11) Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it? (KJV)
(JOHN 18:12) Then the band and the captain and officers of the Jews took Jesus, and bound him, (KJV)

Jesus at this point has the sin of the World, He does not have a WEDDING GARMENT, Bound hand and foot and cast into outer darkness and He is SPEECHLESS. Outer darkness is Midnight to sunrise.

(MATTHEW 22:12) And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. (KJV)
(MATTHEW 22:13) Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (KJV)

(ISAIAH 53:7) He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. (KJV)

This goes on and on. Linking many similitudes and concepts seen in Daniel. EVERY similitude is for the day of the cross, EVERY Dream is for the Day of the Cross. EVERY prophecy is for the day of the cross, where all is fulfilled and established as TRUTH.

Daniel is written out on my web page if any wish to see more of the concepts.

ken1burton

 

Hello Don,
Learning How To Be An Individual Child Of God Is The Hardest Thing On This Planet to Do.
Learning How To Agree To Disagree with Respect Of All Parties Involved Is The Second Hardest Thing To Do...

I Have Never Seen a Study Of Prophetic Similtudes In The Bible Or Any Similar Studies..

The Studies of Revelation Has Brought You To What Conclusion..That You Understand It ?

That The Coincidences of The Number References That Ken "Accidently" Comes Across is Just That?...A Coincidence....Not To Speak Of The Various Story Boards of "The Day Of The Cross".. That He Continually Describes.....

Have You Actually Perceived The Grace That God Has Poured On Ken...You Hear It In His Personal Viewpoints.....The Ones I Ask Him So Often To Say...

I Read Your Posts Also And I Perceive In Them Also A Deep Understanding Of How God Has Increased Your Knowledge...Keep Asking For More !

So If Ive Razzed You In The Past...I Was Only Playing With You "In Christ" (hehe)

Ive Learned Now That Im Older And All Growd Up Is That God Hides "Keys" of how to Understand Him In Many, Many, Ways..This One Will Just Take A Little Longer To Figure Out.
I Myself Respect The Courage Of Ken To Continually Defend What He Has Come To Understand and His Strength To Share It With Others...

Star, Time Is Relevant. If Ken Could Convey From A Gods Viewpoint of Time. It Would Be Intreated and accepted more. (imo)...
We Are All In A State Of Death...When Adam Ate The Fruit..It Plunged The Entire Universe Into Death..This Universe is A RESULT of DEATH. Its Not That God Made Everthing With The Possibility of incorporating Entropy into Its Physical Make-up. This Is Not The Universe That Adam Stood On When He Ate The Apple..This Universe Exists Because Of Entropy..
Stars That Continually Explode internally. Fusion and Fission of Hydrogen and Helium. Destroying Molecules into Heat and Light. The Total Breakdown of our universe...

Jesus Died To Restore The Universe From This State Of Death. He Entered Death..Where We All Are!... How Do We Understand This ? ..Past Present and Future....

Its OUR DESIRE as Children of God To Know How Dad Does What He Does..
isnt That God Showing His Love To Us By Showing Us The Details..The Reasons..The Methods...Did Eve Sin In Wanting to Know...NO!.. She Just Had A Lack Of Patience....

Anyways...I See That Some Gems Can Be Uncovered Here..So I Got To Get My Shovel....

Me2..

 

So ask yourself, "Why haven't you?"

The point has been brought up before: There are most definitely pictures throughout the Bible. No arguing that.

The problem with what's going on here, is when we relegate all the Bible to nothing more than pictures (which is where this is going).

The ultimate end conclusion of such an exercise is that if the Bible is nothing more than pictures and not actual events/historical records, then the historicity of Christ is questionable. The ultimate end conclusion is that Ken is preaching a Christ that didn't actually exist, but can be found in each and every one of us, if we concentrate on the similitudes only.

I've shown several times before where Ken has used verses out of context, causing them to mean something that they weren't supposed to mean. Star's reference to the Ancient of Days, which actually has nothing to do with the conversation on Genesis as it's a reference to Christ, shows the danger of his teaching: Picking verses based on a certain word or phrase or even concept instead of ensuring that they're used within the context in which they're presented.

For instance, look at Ken's latest twist:

In order to agree with Ken on this, one has to set the stage and agree that 1) There were ten disciples, not twelve (ten horns); 2) The Horn prevailed against the saints = Peter cutting off the ear = Peter (the Horn) prevailing against Judas and the great multitude of swords and staves from the chief priests and the scribes and the elders (the saints).

Ken would have us believe that those who came to take Jesus to be crucified were the saints, if we agree to or accept his use of the verse from Daniel here. He would also have us believe that the cutting off of one ear against a great multitude of swords and staves prevailed and won the battle.

Ken muddies the concept: Who were the saints? Those that rise up against Christ? Or those that are the children of God, who have accepted and believed and secured a place in heaven?

If I run with Ken's use of this verse from Daniel, I should be out on the streets encouraging people to reject Christ!

Do I have a deep understanding? Nah, don't think so. I see something new every time I read the Bible. Numbers? The thing about numbers has been going around for a looooooong time, even before ol' Ken was born. You can find books about biblical numerology if you look hard enough.

Ken, however, has claimed angel-hood and pretty much all knowledge of the Bible. Who can argue with that?....

[ July 03, 2002, 07:51 AM: Message edited by: Don ]

 

So ask yourself, "Why haven't you?"</font>[/QUOTE]I agree. I think we always ought question our ideas very much if no-one else in 2,000 years of the church had them.

AITB

 

Hello All,
I Agree On The Darkness and Lack Of Validity in Kens Statements That I Can Comprehend At This Time. I Also Agree That I see A Lot of Things In Kens Statements That need To Be further investegated. My Beliefs Are That Like Ken..Everything Revolves Around The Cross.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ Is Not A Book Of Pictures...Is It Don ? The only Book Thats Not Supposed to Be Looked At Literally and you have A WORLD of Religion Following Its "Teachings" Literally....From The Prospective of What These Millinial Teachings offer....Ken offers just One More Confusing Message..
These Promoters and writers and Yes..False Teachers Have Made Billions Off Of The Mainstream Religions..all Ken is doing is wanting you to consider what he is saying...for free.
That Is What I Am Promoting..Not That I Believe or Dont Believe His Message..But The Opportunity To Express Himself Freely.

To Consider Alternatives to what is Currently Being Propogated As What Many Believe To Be Prophetic "Reality" of Our Day.
If It Were Anyone else..Whom I Have Never Met, hopefully I Would Give The Same Consideration.
Also I Am An Individual and Take My Beliefs Seriously. My Studies Have Not Come Across A Similar Study of The Things That Ken Promotes. Which Puts Him In A Unique Catagory By Himself.

One In Which I Think Compells Me To Investigate His Studies Further..If Anyone Can Guide Me To Alternative sources, I Would Appreciate The Assistance. I Have Been Studying The Bible For 25 Years and Consider Kens work Quite unique and heavy in his usage of bible passages..However confusing and thought provoking it is to comprehend.

Kind of Like Parables..Right..The Bible Is Not To Be Read..It Is To Be Interpreted By God. To Whomever He Determines.

And Yes,..even the simple thoughts of God Has Multiple Messages Contained Within Their Words.

Dont We Live By Faith..Things Not "Seen". Given insight from God, these invisible things "Become" visible..

If We Were Not To Have A Different View Of What God Is Showing Us The World Would Quickly Become Depressing wouldnt It?

Well Thats My "Freedom Of Speech" Speech.
Next Time I Might Be Defending Your Rights ? Maybe...


Me2

 

Originally posted by Me2:

Hello All,
I Agree On The Darkness and Lack Of Validity in Kens Statements That I Can Comprehend At This Time. I Also Agree That I see A Lot of Things In Kens Statements That need To Be further investegated. My Beliefs Are That Like Ken..Everything Revolves Around The Cross.

Hi Me2

Ok, I think all Christians put 'the cross of Jesus Christ' at the center of all things, in a sense.

Where we differ with Ken is that we read the Bible to mean what it says and we don't reinterpret every passage to be some allegory of the day Jesus died.

Of course the themes of salvation, forgiveness, God, man are throughout the Bible. However if it says a man shot an arrow, well, that's what it means. It's not a veiled comment about the day Jesus died...it just isn't...

One In Which I Think Compells Me To Investigate His Studies Further..If Anyone Can Guide Me To Alternative sources, I Would Appreciate The Assistance. I Have Been Studying The Bible For 25 Years and Consider Kens work Quite unique and heavy in his usage of bible passages..However confusing and thought provoking it is to comprehend.

See, I would suggest doing more 'reasonability checks' on what Ken says than that he uses a lot of verses. It's uniqueness, to me, is more of a red flag than anything else.

I just can't believe that God let the church be 'lost' for almost 2,000 years until He revealed the true meaning of the Bible to Ken.

And last time I said that I think I offended Ken...but I don't mean it to be an offensive comment; only a reasonability check.

Anyway, I have a mental illness and when I was ill I tried to do things a lot like Ken is doing i.e. come up with my own allegorical interpretation of the Bible. It's really hard to look at something and know "when I did that they put me on anti-psychotic drugs" and not be a bit skeptical about it.

Yeah, maybe I'm just jealous that he can do it and I can't without being put on drugs. OTOH I kinda like being restored to seeing things much more like the way the rest of the Body of Christ does...

Kind of Like Parables..Right..The Bible Is Not To Be Read..It Is To Be Interpreted By God. To Whomever He Determines.

Yes, but He is a revealing God; not a God who hides important teachings except from one man - be he Ken or someone else. (Or one woman, fwiw )

And Yes,..even the simple thoughts of God Has Multiple Messages Contained Within Their Words.


Yes, but the MAIN meaning will not be an obscure hidden one that only one man - be he Ken or someone else - is able to decode.

Did you see A Beautiful Mind? What did John Nash do when he was ill? Look for hidden messages

If the most important messages that there are are hidden in the Bible, to be found only by one man - be he Ken or someone else, then what does that tell us about God? That He enjoys our confusion...that He doesn't really want us to know; that He plays games with us...surely that's what we'd have to conclude if He has only ordained to reveal important truth to one man.

Dont We Live By Faith..Things Not "Seen".

To some extent. But what did Jesus say when John's disciples came and asked "Are you the one?" He replied that they should LOOK AND LISTEN to what is around them and they would KNOW the answer.

Therefore we would be wrong to set aside the evidence of our five senses! Or our reason!

If We Were Not To Have A Different View Of What God Is Showing Us The World Would Quickly Become Depressing wouldnt It?

Yes, but we have it already and we had it long before Ken came along, with all due respect.

Ken is a universalist and that probably appeals to you; I can empathize; I find the doctrine of hell really hard. But I will not embrace things which I find lead me to untenable conclusions about the God who wants to know us and has revealed Himself to us all throughout time, just to evade the doctrine of hell.

And I do find it totally untenable that every passage of Scripture is an allegory of Jesus' death.

Ken does what other allegorizers do - he allegorizes until he gets to teaching he likes. No offense but...I don't see justification for anyone doing that...they may be sincere but I think it's a very dangerous way to approach Scripture (or anything else!)

 

Me2, you're missing the obvious.

The fact that I have referenced specific statements and verses that Ken has used proves we are doing exactly what you imply we're not doing: Considering his alternatives.

The opportunity to express his views freely? Of course. Have I told him not to post? Or to go away? I've simply made it a rule to refute those things that I find to be incorrect teachings. Your implication is that I must restrict my freedom to express my views in order to allow Ken the freedom to express his. I'm sorry, but I reserve the right to correct those teachings that I find to be wrong, and I ask you to respect that right.

If you find problems with my refutations, then please address those. But please, don't imply that I need to hush up and just let wrong teachings be taught.

If you find fault with my statement about Ken elevating himself to "angel status," then feel free to address Ken directly about this. Given enough time, I could probably find the post where he admitted this himself.

If you can't find fault with my refutations, then please, by all means, ask Ken why he continues to hold to certain beliefs when they've been refuted publicly.

God interprets the Bible to who He chooses? Why, then, would He make it available to all? Unless your point is from the book of John: No man comes to the Father except through the Son, and no one comes to the Son except he be led by the Father.

 

Hi Don

I think we cross-posted...

Anyway, I remember Ken saying that. To be fair, I think he ascribes that status to a lot of humans; it's part of his way of using words differently from the rest of us. Which only makes it harder to understand what he's even trying to say...

Ken, are you truly being as clear as you can be?

 

Yep, we did.

Ken already tried to answer that one, when I asked him where his Aaron was. He implied that God sent Aaron to Moses, when in reality, scripture tells us that God got angry that Moses kept saying "I can't do it" and decided to use an already-present individual as the mouthpiece.

Of course, Ken's hidden meaning is that he himself is the Aaron that God sent....

 

Hello Aitb,

Your Quick Wit Supercedes Your Reputation....(And Funnier Than Usual...)

I Was Pointing Out that many times we seem to overlook the obvious in the details of the scriptures...
That I Enjoy Being Reminded Of The Details In Kens Unique way of re-addressing them
via his studies..any other opinions are pending..

I Was Gone For A While...Now Im Back.. (and I Didnt Come Back As An Angel.....)

Hello Don,
Sir, I Respect Your Rights To Speak Your Mind...I Expect It..and I In No Way Will Be Offended By Them.. I Took This Too Personal In Addressing The Freedom and Not Necessarily The Content of Speech. Please Accept My Apology. I Will No Longer bring This Up Here For It Is No longer Applicable without further study From My Viewpoint.
I Find The Various Disconnection of The Literal statements confusing compared to the usage in the Assembling Of Kens Similtudes. Time However Is In Control Of God. and Can be Manipulated beyond our understanding. Those Thoughts Intrigue Me.
Keep This Thought In Mind...God Invented "The Twilight Zone".

I Appreciate The Concern That You Have Shown Me and See That Both Of You Have Deep Convictions Regarding The Truths That You Hold...As I Do Also.

I Hope That We Continue To Grow In Christ Together


Me2



[ July 03, 2002, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: Me2 ]

 

Hi again Don

Ok, let's look at the passage:

Ex 3:13 But Moses said, "O Lord, please send someone else to do it." 14 Then the LORD's anger burned against Moses and he said, "What about your brother, Aaron the Levite? I know he can speak well. He is already on his way to meet you, and his heart will be glad when he sees you. 15 You shall speak to him and put words in his mouth; I will help both of you speak and will teach you what to do. 16 He will speak to the people for you, and it will be as if he were your mouth and as if you were God to him

To be fair, I think this gets into the mystery of God's sovereignty and our freedom to make choices and how they interact.

Note that God says "Aaron is already on his way..."

Therefore, before God appeared to Moses, Aaron was already on the way to meet Moses. Already on the way but not 'already-present' - please note.

Did Aaron already know, when he was on his way, that he was going to be Moses' mouthpiece? Did Aaron know anything beyond, he'd heard that Moses was in Midian? (I suppose he must have, for him to be on his way) Did he know yet that the two of them were going to lead the Israelites out? We really don't know. Oh, but I see it says later Ex 3:27 The LORD said to Aaron, "Go into the desert to meet Moses." So he met Moses at the mountain of God and kissed him. So it was God who sent Aaron to Moses, evidently.

When did God know that Moses would say 'no'? Before God and Moses had the conversation, according to conservative Christian theology - right? So God already knew Aaron would speak for Moses.

All that is a separate issue, really, from whether Ken is right in seeing anything in the passage that is analogous to his role

But - I try to assess each argument on its own merits and if Ken said God prepared Aaron to speak for Moses I wouldn't necessarily find a basis to disagree based on what the Bible actually says!

AITB

 

Hi Kim

I don't understand why - if Ken has this supreme revelation from God (with all due respect) God didn't also tell him to communicate it as clearly as possible Or, if he IS communicating it 'as clearly as possible' I'm disappointed

Using humor when people don't realize that you are, only obfuscates things further, imo and again, with all due respect...

 

Originally posted by Me2:

Hello Aitb,

hi

Your Quick Wit Supercedes Your Reputation....(And Funnier Than Usual...)

thanks

It certainly supercedes my reputation here but, oh well

I Was Pointing Out that many times we seem to overlook the obvious in the details of the scriptures...
That I Enjoy Being Reminded Of The Details In Kens Unique way of re-addressing them
via his studies..any other opinions are pending..

If you are finding what he writes helpful in your own studies of the Word of God then I'm glad. I guess I'm simply saying, be discerning when you come across what is new and unique...please...

I Was Gone For A While...Now Im Back.. (and I Didnt Come Back As An Angel.....)

lol

Better luck next time (re: coming back as an Angel) then

 

Me2, I realized a long time ago that you are questioning Ken, not necessarily agreeing with him. No offense was taken on my part, and no apology necessary.

As for "God's Time": About ten years ago, string theory came up with the idea that there were actually 12 dimensions, and possibly 20, instead of our normally accepted 4 dimensions (I don't know what the current theory is; I haven't been keeping up).

3 of those dimensions, and possibly more, are theorized as dealing with time.

As a Christian, my immediate thought is that God exists in and controls all of them.

So I completely agree with you: God's time, not ours!

----------
AITB, I will humbly acquiesce on the Moses/Aaron point. I realized after writing it that if one truly believes God is in control of all things, then the events were set in motion well before Moses decided to say he couldn't do what God was telling him to do.

AMEN!

 

Originally posted by Don:

AITB, I will humbly acquiesce on the Moses/Aaron point.

I WON! I WON!!!

Ooops, sorry Don...what was that you were saying about 'humble'?

I realized after writing it that if one truly believes God is in control of all things, then the events were set in motion well before Moses decided to say he couldn't do what God was telling him to do.

Exactly.

I think practically speaking the best way we can apply this mystery of God's foreknowledge and our real choices is - believe we have choices when we think we have and make them the best we can (prayerfully and with wise counsel etc). But when we fail (as we sometimes will) be assured that God has gone before us and knew ahead of time and that's how He can keep His promise in Romans 8:28 that He will work all things together for good to those who love Him. He made a way in view of our failure, before we ever came to the choice where we were going to fail. It was a real choice but He, knowing all things, was ready to make provision when we didn't choose rightly. (And hopefully sometimes we do choose rightly!)

AITB

 

Originally posted by Star:

lol, I wish God told Paul that too

I might have told him too had I known him