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Featured Why Are Sinners Told to “Seek the Lord”?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Feb 18, 2022.

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  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    lets start with this, "There are also verses that explain he has chosen not to do that". Now show from the Bible where it says that God does not want to save everyone?
     
  2. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    My friend, if you'll notice in Isaiah 1 the Lord telling His chosen nation of Israel this:

    " Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the Lord hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.
    3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master’s crib: [but] Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.
    4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger,
    they are gone away backward." ( Isaiah 1:2-4 )

    Isaiah was ( primarily ) a prophet to the nation of Israel.
    What the Lord had to say through him was addressed to a people who were not following the covenant that they, as a nation, had agreed to with Moses generations before...

    Yet, they were still bound by the terms of that covenant.

    That many of them ( or even most of them ) were not born again is obvious to me, since those who are born again do not actively, and for long periods of time, rebel against the Lord.
    Rather, their hearts have been changed and what a born-again person wrestles with is their sinful flesh...see Romans 7:14-25 and Galatians 5:17.
    Since someone who is saved and is born again has a new heart that is towards God and His ways ( instead of being bent away from Him and His ways ),
    I agree with your observation that God is not addressing a group of born again individuals...

    He's addressing a group of largely unregenerate people who are still responsible to obey Him because they agreed to.

    The evidence of them not being born again is rather plain to me...
    They kept "backsliding" in their hearts and in their actions.
     
  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Thanks brother.

    are you saying that when it says to seek the Lord, and call on His Name for salvation, as in the verses in the OP, this is only for the "elect", or for the entire race of humans?
     
  4. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    God's elect are not physical Israel...they are spiritual Israel, the Israel of God.
    They are born again, and even though they need correction from time to time, does not mean they are the same, in their hearts and in their actions, as wayward Israel was under the first covenant.

    They are all born again and even though they are reminded to seek the Lord, in their hearts and in their minds they will...
    Because they know and believe His words and His promises to them.

    They are not, deep down, like Israel was under the Old Testament;
    They may stumble into sin, but they will not live in it like Israel did.
     
    #84 Dave G, Feb 19, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2022
  5. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Read the whole chapter.
     
  6. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I have given up wasting time with your rather foolish responses!
     
  7. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    There are two kinds of "salvation", SBG...
    Earthly salvation from one's troubles, and salvation from the Lake of Fire and to a relationship with God and His Son.

    God often saves even unbelievers from their troubles here on earth in order to show His mercy in the here and now...
    A mercy and goodness that is designed to lead them to repentance ( Romans 2:1-11 ).
    But eternal life ( which includes salvation from the Lake of Fire and God's everlasting punishment ) is only granted to God's elect.

    To answer your question from my understanding of God's word...

    In the passage you referenced, I see God talking to Israel under the terms of the Old Testament.
    Him commanding them to seek the Lord is precisely what they were supposed to do, and in the case of Acts of the Apostles 17:22-31, all men should seek the Lord...

    Even though we won't ( Romans 1:31-32, Romans 3:10-18, John 3:19-20, John 5:40 ).
     
    #87 Dave G, Feb 19, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2022
  8. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    I never said it is not mentioned. I said that is not what saves which is what you claimed.
     
  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    there can be no doubt that salvation from sin is meant

    Seek the LORD while he may be found; call upon him while he is near; let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon” (Isaiah 55:6-7)
     
  10. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    My response was serious, if you can't see how Romans 9 is talking about salvation I don't know what to tell you.
     
  11. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    I have not rejected anything from Scripture.
     
  12. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the elect heard, because they had ears to hear, were convicted, because God was working on his chosen ones, and they believed. There is nothing there that I have EVER contradicted.
     
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  13. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I refer you to my comments in the OP, WHY would God even bother to require the NON ELECT to SEEK Him and Call on Him for salvation, when,according to reformed theology, they can never be saved?
     
  14. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Under the terms of the Law of Moses, which they were constrained to obey, salvation from God's earthly wrath is what I see being spoken of here.
    God is pleading with Israel and fulfilling His end, even though Israel is not living up to the terms they agreed to.

    See Exodus, Levitcus and Deuteronomy, my friend.
     
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  15. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    I know you have me on ignore, so you didn't read my response to your concept of "offer." You also won't read my response here. It's too bad.

    If you were to read Exodus 1-12, you would see that the redemption of Israel out of slavery is a foreshadowing of what Jesus did. You would see that God hardened Pharaoh's heart, yet fully declares him culpable for Pharaoh hardening his own heart. The difference between Pharoah/Egypt and God's chosen people is purely because God keeps his Covenant...even if the chosen ones fail on their end.
    In Exodus 1-12 you can very clearly see the redemption plan and process of God. It is there where you can see salvation regarding Pharaoh.

    As to Esau, go to Hebrews 12.
    Hebrews 12:16-17
    Make sure that no one is immoral or godless like Esau, who traded his birthright as the firstborn son for a single meal. You know that afterward, when he wanted his father’s blessing, he was rejected. It was too late for repentance, even though he begged with bitter tears.

    It boggles my mind how much you question and distrust God's word and then exchange it for your own unbiblical viewpoint.

    Honestly where is your blindness coming from. You should know better.
     
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  16. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    So they are without excuse. I've told you this many times. IF they wanted to, they don't, if they did so, they will not, they would be saved. God knows none of them want to and never will. But, he demands righteousness and holiness. They are without excuse. The book of Romans opens up with this very fact. If they wanted to follow the truth, they could. They do not want to. They are content in their sin. They want to remain in their sin. They do not desire God, and without God's intervention they will never desire God. They are vessels of wrath prepared for destruction. So why would God require it? Because he demands obedience and holiness. If you still question that, you need to ask God, not your fellow man.
     
  17. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    He is blinded by hatred.
     
  18. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure that is it. sbg is genuinely wanting to know God. But, he cannot accept what God says without asking why. It reminds me of the 2 year stage of a child. Why is the favorite statement when explanation is given. With such a small and narrow amount of knowledge, the child can get stuck in its understanding and thus remain in a loop of "why." I think sbg is stuck in that loop because he just can't fit God into his self construct. Until he grows and understands that God is primarily a covenant making God, he will not see the fullness of the Bible and the gospel.
    It may also be that our enemy doesn't want him to see. To that end I pray the eyes of his heart will be enlightened.
    Ephesians 1:18
    I pray that your hearts will be flooded with light so that you can understand the confident hope he has given to those he called—his holy people who are his rich and glorious inheritance.
     
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  19. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    Acts 13:48. "As many as were ordained to eternal life believed." John 6:37. John 6:39. "All those the Father gives to me". There are a lot of verses. But the best argument would be that obviously, not everyone gets saved and God is powerful enough to do so. Unless man is actually the supreme final authority in all this.

    By the way, you have a habit of taking a quote and then changing it to suit your preconceived opinion. I said there are verses that say God did not choose to save everyone. You turned it around and said God doesn't WANT to save everyone. There is a difference which you could understand if you would read some Calvinist theology that is not of the "hyper" variety. But you won't because it's easier to just spew something over and over again.
     
  20. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Didn't know we had a contract ;)
     
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