Why Are Sinners Told to “Seek the Lord”?

[SavedByGrace]

There are verses in scripture that indicate God wants everyone to be saved. There are also verses that explain he has chosen not to do that

lets start with this, "There are also verses that explain he has chosen not to do that". Now show from the Bible where it says that God does not want to save everyone?

 

[Dave G]

“Seek the LORD while he may be found; call upon him while he is near; let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon” (Isaiah 55:6-7)

From this passage, it is clear that those called on to “seek the Lord”, are not “saved, born-again”, even though it uses, “return”, as though they had wandered from the Lord. As these are called “wicked” and “unrighteous”, which would never be used to describe a saved person.

My friend, if you'll notice in Isaiah 1 the Lord telling His chosen nation of Israel this:

" Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the Lord hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.
3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master’s crib: [but] Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.
4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward." ( Isaiah 1:2-4 )

Isaiah was ( primarily ) a prophet to the nation of Israel.
What the Lord had to say through him was addressed to a people who were not following the covenant that they, as a nation, had agreed to with Moses generations before...

Yet, they were still bound by the terms of that covenant.

That many of them ( or even most of them ) were not born again is obvious to me, since those who are born again do not actively, and for long periods of time, rebel against the Lord.
Rather, their hearts have been changed and what a born-again person wrestles with is their sinful flesh...see Romans 7:14-25 and Galatians 5:17.
Since someone who is saved and is born again has a new heart that is towards God and His ways ( instead of being bent away from Him and His ways ),
I agree with your observation that God is not addressing a group of born again individuals...

He's addressing a group of largely unregenerate people who are still responsible to obey Him because they agreed to.

The evidence of them not being born again is rather plain to me...
They kept "backsliding" in their hearts and in their actions.

 

[SavedByGrace]

My friend, if you'll notice in Isaiah 1 the Lord telling His chosen nation of Israel this:

" Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the Lord hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.
3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master’s crib: [but] Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.
4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward." ( Isaiah 1:2-4 )

Isaiah was ( primarily ) a prophet to the nation of Israel.
What the Lord had to say through him was addressed to a people who were not following the covenant that they, as a nation, had agreed to with Moses generations before...

Yet, they were still bound by the terms of that covenant.

That many of them ( or even most of them ) were not born again is obvious to me, since those who are born again do not actively, and for long periods of time, rebel against the Lord.
Rather, their hearts have been changed and what a born-again person wrestles with is their sinful flesh...see Romans 7:14-25 and Galatians 5:17.
Since someone who is saved and is born again has a new heart that is towards God and His ways ( instead of being bent away from Him and His ways ),
I agree with your observation that God is not addressing a group of born again individuals...

He's addressing a group of largely unregenerate people who are still responsible to obey Him because they agreed to.

The evidence of them not being born again is rather plain to me...
They kept "backsliding" in their hearts and in their actions.

Thanks brother.

are you saying that when it says to seek the Lord, and call on His Name for salvation, as in the verses in the OP, this is only for the "elect", or for the entire race of humans?

 

[Dave G]

WHY would the “elect”, need to SEEK the Lord, and CALL upon Him? They are supposed to have been “elected to salvation” before the foundation of the world. They are supposed to have the “inward call” from the Holy Spirit, and need not DO anything, so we are told!

God's elect are not physical Israel...they are spiritual Israel, the Israel of God.
They are born again, and even though they need correction from time to time, does not mean they are the same, in their hearts and in their actions, as wayward Israel was under the first covenant.

They are all born again and even though they are reminded to seek the Lord, in their hearts and in their minds they will...
Because they know and believe His words and His promises to them.

They are not, deep down, like Israel was under the Old Testament;
They may stumble into sin, but they will not live in it like Israel did.

 

[Reformed1689]

PLEASE show from Jacob and Easu, and Pharaoh, ANYTHING about salvation?

Lets see it here, IF you can!

Read the whole chapter.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Read the whole chapter.

I have given up wasting time with your rather foolish responses!

 

[Dave G]

are you saying that when it says to seek the Lord, and call on His Name for salvation, as in the verses in the OP, this is only for the "elect", or for the entire race of humans?

There are two kinds of "salvation", SBG...
Earthly salvation from one's troubles, and salvation from the Lake of Fire and to a relationship with God and His Son.

God often saves even unbelievers from their troubles here on earth in order to show His mercy in the here and now...
A mercy and goodness that is designed to lead them to repentance ( Romans 2:1-11 ).
But eternal life ( which includes salvation from the Lake of Fire and God's everlasting punishment ) is only granted to God's elect.

To answer your question from my understanding of God's word...

In the passage you referenced, I see God talking to Israel under the terms of the Old Testament.
Him commanding them to seek the Lord is precisely what they were supposed to do, and in the case of Acts of the Apostles 17:22-31, all men should seek the Lord...

Even though we won't ( Romans 1:31-32, Romans 3:10-18, John 3:19-20, John 5:40 ).

 

[Reformed1689]

READ the context

Because if you CONFESS the Lord Jesus, and BELIEVE in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be SAVED the Scripture says, "Everyone BELIEVING on Him shall not be put to shame." 12 For there is no difference both of Jew and of Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call on Him. 13 For everyone, "whoever shall call on the name of the Lord will be SAVED." 14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without PREACHING? 15 And how shall they PRESCH unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who PREACH the gospel of PREACH and bring glad tidings of good things!"

You are WILFULLY ignoring the passage that clearly speaks of SALVATION, because you cannot accept it!

Now show from the above passage, that SALVATION and PREACHING of the GOSPEL is not mentioned?

I never said it is not mentioned. I said that is not what saves which is what you claimed.

 

[SavedByGrace]

There are two kinds of "salvation", SBG...
Earthly salvation from one's troubles, and salvation from the Lake of Fire and to a relationship with God and His Son.

God often saves even unbelievers from their troubles here on earth,
but eternal life ( which includes salvation from the Lake of Fire and God's eternal wrath ) is only granted to God's elect.

To answer your question from my understanding of God's word...

In the passage you referenced, I see God talking to Israel under the terms of the Old Testament.
Him commanding them to seek the Lord is precisely what they were supposed to do, and in the case of Acts of the Apostles 17:22-31, all men should seek the Lord...

Even though we won't.

there can be no doubt that salvation from sin is meant

“Seek the LORD while he may be found; call upon him while he is near; let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon” (Isaiah 55:6-7)

 

[Reformed1689]

I have given up wasting time with your rather foolish responses!

My response was serious, if you can't see how Romans 9 is talking about salvation I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Reformed1689]

@Reformed1689 I have answered ALL of your questions and objections from the Bible. It seems that all you really want to do is dispute and argue for the sake of it! You have said that you want serious discussions, but you will not accept anything that is from the Bible, that does not agree with your THEOLOGY!

It is time wasting

I have not rejected anything from Scripture.

 

[Reformed1689]

Dude, I have said this MANY times in response to you here on BB, but, like the Jews in John 5:40, you "are not willing" to accept what is said!

The Bible has TWO CONDITIONS for any sinner to be saved. 1. REPENTANCE and 2. FAITH, which is what Jesus said at the start of His earthly Ministry in Mark 1:15.

After Peter preached his Gospel Message on the Day of Pentecost, some who heard him, were "cut to the heart" (v37), that is CONVICTED by the Holy Spirit, as Jesus says in John 16:8-10. These who were CONVICTED, said to Peter, "what shall we DO?". To which Peter did not say, DO NOTHING, but REPENT...for the FORGIVENESS OF YOUR SINS" (v38). Jesus says in Luke 13:1-5, UNLESS YOU REPENT YOU WILL LIKEWISE PERISH"

It has NOTHING to do with Jesus' Blood on the cross being "wasted", BUT sinners who will not REPENT and BELIEVE!

Can you get and accept this?

Yes, the elect heard, because they had ears to hear, were convicted, because God was working on his chosen ones, and they believed. There is nothing there that I have EVER contradicted.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Yes, the elect heard, because they had ears to hear, were convicted, because God was working on his chosen ones, and they believed. There is nothing there that I have EVER contradicted.

I refer you to my comments in the OP, WHY would God even bother to require the NON ELECT to SEEK Him and Call on Him for salvation, when,according to reformed theology, they can never be saved?

 

[Dave G]

there can be no doubt that salvation from sin is meant

“Seek the LORD while he may be found; call upon him while he is near; let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon” (Isaiah 55:6-7)

Under the terms of the Law of Moses, which they were constrained to obey, salvation from God's earthly wrath is what I see being spoken of here.
God is pleading with Israel and fulfilling His end, even though Israel is not living up to the terms they agreed to.

See Exodus, Levitcus and Deuteronomy, my friend.

 

[AustinC]

PLEASE show from Jacob and Easu, and Pharaoh, ANYTHING about salvation?

Lets see it here, IF you can!

I know you have me on ignore, so you didn't read my response to your concept of "offer." You also won't read my response here. It's too bad.

If you were to read Exodus 1-12, you would see that the redemption of Israel out of slavery is a foreshadowing of what Jesus did. You would see that God hardened Pharaoh's heart, yet fully declares him culpable for Pharaoh hardening his own heart. The difference between Pharoah/Egypt and God's chosen people is purely because God keeps his Covenant...even if the chosen ones fail on their end.
In Exodus 1-12 you can very clearly see the redemption plan and process of God. It is there where you can see salvation regarding Pharaoh.

As to Esau, go to Hebrews 12.
Hebrews 12:16-17
Make sure that no one is immoral or godless like Esau, who traded his birthright as the firstborn son for a single meal. You know that afterward, when he wanted his father’s blessing, he was rejected. It was too late for repentance, even though he begged with bitter tears.

It boggles my mind how much you question and distrust God's word and then exchange it for your own unbiblical viewpoint.

Honestly where is your blindness coming from. You should know better.

 

[Reformed1689]

I refer you to my comments in the OP, WHY would God even bother to require the NON ELECT to SEEK Him and Call on Him for salvation, when,according to reformed theology, they can never be saved?

So they are without excuse. I've told you this many times. IF they wanted to, they don't, if they did so, they will not, they would be saved. God knows none of them want to and never will. But, he demands righteousness and holiness. They are without excuse. The book of Romans opens up with this very fact. If they wanted to follow the truth, they could. They do not want to. They are content in their sin. They want to remain in their sin. They do not desire God, and without God's intervention they will never desire God. They are vessels of wrath prepared for destruction. So why would God require it? Because he demands obedience and holiness. If you still question that, you need to ask God, not your fellow man.

 

[Reformed1689]

I know you have me on ignore, so you didn't read my response to your concept of "offer." You also won't read my response here. It's too bad.

If you were to read Exodus 1-12, you would see that the redemption of Israel out of slavery is a foreshadowing of what Jesus did. You would see that God hardened Pharaoh's heart, yet fully declares him culpable for Pharaoh hardening his own heart. The difference between Pharoah/Egypt and God's chosen people is purely because God keeps his Covenant...even if the chosen ones fail on their end.
In Exodus 1-12 you can very clearly see the redemption plan and process of God. It is there where you can see salvation regarding Pharaoh.

As to Esau, go to Hebrews 12.
Hebrews 12:16-17
Make sure that no one is immoral or godless like Esau, who traded his birthright as the firstborn son for a single meal. You know that afterward, when he wanted his father’s blessing, he was rejected. It was too late for repentance, even though he begged with bitter tears.

It boggles my mind how much you question and distrust God's word and then exchange it for your own unbiblical viewpoint.

Honestly where is your blindness coming from. You should know better.

He is blinded by hatred.

 

[AustinC]

He is blinded by hatred.

I am not sure that is it. sbg is genuinely wanting to know God. But, he cannot accept what God says without asking why. It reminds me of the 2 year stage of a child. Why is the favorite statement when explanation is given. With such a small and narrow amount of knowledge, the child can get stuck in its understanding and thus remain in a loop of "why." I think sbg is stuck in that loop because he just can't fit God into his self construct. Until he grows and understands that God is primarily a covenant making God, he will not see the fullness of the Bible and the gospel.
It may also be that our enemy doesn't want him to see. To that end I pray the eyes of his heart will be enlightened.
Ephesians 1:18
I pray that your hearts will be flooded with light so that you can understand the confident hope he has given to those he called—his holy people who are his rich and glorious inheritance.

 

[DaveXR650]

lets start with this, "There are also verses that explain he has chosen not to do that". Now show from the Bible where it says that God does not want to save everyone?

Acts 13:48. "As many as were ordained to eternal life believed." John 6:37. John 6:39. "All those the Father gives to me". There are a lot of verses. But the best argument would be that obviously, not everyone gets saved and God is powerful enough to do so. Unless man is actually the supreme final authority in all this.

By the way, you have a habit of taking a quote and then changing it to suit your preconceived opinion. I said there are verses that say God did not choose to save everyone. You turned it around and said God doesn't WANT to save everyone. There is a difference which you could understand if you would read some Calvinist theology that is not of the "hyper" variety. But you won't because it's easier to just spew something over and over again.

 

[Reformed1689]

This is the end of any contract with you on BB

Didn't know we had a contract