Why Are Sinners Told to “Seek the Lord”?

[SavedByGrace]

I don't understand what most of the discussion evolved into but Jesus himself was clear-

"Jesus answered, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

Luke 5:32

Most of the miracles in the Bible are not strictly to show merely the cool things God can do, but his awesome love and compassion for his creation. He cares about our pain, even our physical pain.

Obviously, he cares about our salvation.

"And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all the nations."

Mark 13:10 (this has to happen before his return)

Why?

So they could know about it.

Why?

So they could be saved.

do you believe that Jesus Christ came into this world to offer salvation to every single human being without exception (not universal salvation); or only for the "elect"?

 

[Iconoclast]

do you believe that Jesus Christ came into this world to offer salvation to every single human being without exception (not universal salvation); or only for the "elect"?

There are many who have.lived and died and never heard the gospel preached.

 

[SavedByGrace]

There are many who have.lived and died and never heard the gospel preached.

well, we agree on this!

However, the Lord is the Just Judge of all the earth, and He will do what is right.

This does not mean in any way, that Jesus Christ did not die even for these, as He has for the entire lost world

 

[Iconoclast]

well, we agree on this!

However, the Lord is the Just Judge of all the earth, and He will do what is right.

This does not mean in any way, that Jesus Christ did not die even for these, as He has for the entire lost world

An argument from silence is no argument at all.

 

[Reformed1689]

you need to get some English lessions!

Pretty sure it is Jesus that saves, not preaching.

 

[Reformed1689]

I do agree that the Grace, Goodness, and Conviction by the Lord is required before any sinner can call on Him for salvation. However, this means that the Death of Jesus Christ has to include every single human being, as they are ALL expected to SEEK the Lord and Call on His Name, not just some of them

You have contradictory statements here.

 

[Reformed1689]

we are really not getting anywhere here.

The hardening of pharaoh's heart, is not in the context of salvation, so I never uderstand why the reformed quote this as if it were about this?

I firmly believe in the universal Death of Jesus Christ, but not universal salvation. As the sinner need first to "repent and believe", before they can get saved.

If you do not think that passage is in the context of salvation then there is really nothing to discuss here. You are wrong.

 

[AustinC]

do you believe that Jesus Christ came into this world to offer salvation to every single human being without exception (not universal salvation); or only for the "elect"?

Notice the keyword you use is... "offer."
Jesus does not act like a door to door salesman who has a great, free, "offer" that the homeowner should mull over and then decide to either take or reject.
Jesus comes and tells you that you are chosen to receive this gracious gift that you did not even think you needed. It is your inherited Inheritance.

Hebrews 9:15-17
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.

It is really important to understand that Jesus and the Apostles all understood that Jesus is the Passover Lamb and as the sacrificial lamb he established the New Covenant for his brothers and sisters who are adopted children.

Jesus is no door to door salesman with an "offer."

 

[SavedByGrace]

Pretty sure it is Jesus that saves, not preaching.

so Romans chapter 10 is wrong, and you are right???

 

[DaveXR650]

The genuine "offer" of the gospel is real. Although it is opposed by two Calvinist groups at least that I have heard of, the Gospel Standard Strict Baptists, and the Protestant Reformed Churches of America. They are wrong and it is not a universal Calvinist teaching that the offer is not real.

 

[SavedByGrace]

If you do not think that passage is in the context of salvation then there is really nothing to discuss here. You are wrong.

I know that you guys also see "salvation" in what Paul says about Jacob and Easu, but this is NOT what the passage says

"it was said to her, "The elder shall SERVE the younger." As it is written, "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."(Romans 9:12-13).

No salvation here, except in the minds of some for their theology! As we also read about Pharoah

For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "Even for this same purpose I have raised you up, that I might show My power in you, and that My name might be declared throughout all the earth.Therefore He has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will, He hardens." (verses, 17-18)

NOTHING about salvation, but the Display of God's Almighty Power, and the spread of His Great Name!

Don't force the Bible to say things that it does NOT!

 

[Reformed1689]

so Romans chapter 10 is wrong, and you are right???

Romans 10 doesn't say preaching SAVES people.

 

[Reformed1689]

I know that you guys also see "salvation" in what Paul says about Jacob and Easu, but this is NOT what the passage says

"it was said to her, "The elder shall SERVE the younger." As it is written, "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."(Romans 9:12-13).

No salvation here, except in the minds of some for their theology! As we also read about Pharoah

For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "Even for this same purpose I have raised you up, that I might show My power in you, and that My name might be declared throughout all the earth.Therefore He has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will, He hardens." (verses, 17-18)

NOTHING about salvation, but the Display of God's Almighty Power, and the spread of His Great Name!

Don't force the Bible to say things that it does NOT!

You don't see it because, as usual, you hyperfocus on portions of the text taking them out of context. You don't look at the whole.

 

[SavedByGrace]

The genuine "offer" of the gospel is real. Although it is opposed by two Calvinist groups at least that I have heard of, the Gospel Standard Strict Baptists, and the Protestant Reformed Churches of America. They are wrong and it is not a universal Calvinist teaching that the offer is not real.

HOW can the offer of the Gospel be "genuine and real" in reformed/calvinistic theology, when Jesus Christ is said to have Died only for the elect? The ONLY way that the offer can be "genuine and real", is if Jesus also Died for the so called non elect.

 

[SavedByGrace]

You don't see it because, as usual, you hyperfocus on portions of the text taking them out of context. You don't look at the whole.

PLEASE show from Jacob and Easu, and Pharaoh, ANYTHING about salvation?

Lets see it here, IF you can!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Romans 10 doesn't say preaching SAVES people.

READ the context

Because if you CONFESS the Lord Jesus, and BELIEVE in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be SAVED the Scripture says, "Everyone BELIEVING on Him shall not be put to shame." 12 For there is no difference both of Jew and of Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call on Him. 13 For everyone, "whoever shall call on the name of the Lord will be SAVED." 14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without PREACHING? 15 And how shall they PRESCH unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who PREACH the gospel of PREACH and bring glad tidings of good things!"

You are WILFULLY ignoring the passage that clearly speaks of SALVATION, because you cannot accept it!

Now show from the above passage, that SALVATION and PREACHING of the GOSPEL is not mentioned?

 

[Reformed1689]

HOW can the offer of the Gospel be "genuine and real" in reformed/calvinistic theology, when Jesus Christ is said to have Died only for the elect? The ONLY way that the offer can be "genuine and real", is if Jesus also Died for the so called non elect.

First, where do you see salvation as an offer, vs something that was accomplished? Second, if Jesus died for all, why was that not enough? I'm more interested in your view on the second quesion.

 

[SavedByGrace]

First, where do you see salvation as an offer, vs something that was accomplished? Second, if Jesus died for all, why was that not enough? I'm more interested in your view on the second quesion.

Dude, I have said this MANY times in response to you here on BB, but, like the Jews in John 5:40, you "are not willing" to accept what is said!

The Bible has TWO CONDITIONS for any sinner to be saved. 1. REPENTANCE and 2. FAITH, which is what Jesus said at the start of His earthly Ministry in Mark 1:15.

After Peter preached his Gospel Message on the Day of Pentecost, some who heard him, were "cut to the heart" (v37), that is CONVICTED by the Holy Spirit, as Jesus says in John 16:8-10. These who were CONVICTED, said to Peter, "what shall we DO?". To which Peter did not say, DO NOTHING, but REPENT...for the FORGIVENESS OF YOUR SINS" (v38). Jesus says in Luke 13:1-5, UNLESS YOU REPENT YOU WILL LIKEWISE PERISH"

It has NOTHING to do with Jesus' Blood on the cross being "wasted", BUT sinners who will not REPENT and BELIEVE!

Can you get and accept this?

 

[DaveXR650]

HOW can the offer of the Gospel be "genuine and real" in reformed/calvinistic theology, when Jesus Christ is said to have Died only for the elect? The ONLY way that the offer can be "genuine and real", is if Jesus also Died for the so called non elect.

You have to remember a couple of things:
1. Not everyone even hears the gospel. This has been pointed out to you on this thread. Those that don't hear the gospel don't respond and are lost. So the "fairness" issue is something universal atonement people have to deal with anyway.

2. There is NO case where someone in scripture responds to the gospel and is turned away because Christ didn't die for them. So if I say that all the non elect reject the gospel and the elect don't you cannot refute that - because it looks the same whether you are a limited or universal atonement believer.

3. There are timing issues that men cannot explain involving God's eternal decrees, the atonement and men's response.

4. There are verses in scripture that indicate God wants everyone to be saved. There are also verses that explain he has chosen not to do that. If we try to over emphasize one doctrine over the other we have to twist words and meaning of scripture.

5. All these doctrinal positions from yours to the hyper-Calvinists can be logically arrived at using scriptures we have available. Clearly, we are in over our heads trying to figure out God.

Basically, Calvinists want to honor God and give him all the glory for anyone being saved. Sometimes I think some of them go to far with their logical conclusions.

Most non Calvinists honestly want to protect God's honor too. They see reformed doctrine as making God unloving or even cruel. I understand that.

But if you are viewing this as an issue that God owes man some kind of fair chance or equal opportunity because man is not all that bad and God owes us something you are on very dangerous ground. Every Calvinist of any kind will be upset over that view and so should every good General Baptist or classic Arminian.

SBG, it would be helpful if you would explain your reasoning - which of the two above describe you?

 

[SavedByGrace]

@Reformed1689 I have answered ALL of your questions and objections from the Bible. It seems that all you really want to do is dispute and argue for the sake of it! You have said that you want serious discussions, but you will not accept anything that is from the Bible, that does not agree with your THEOLOGY!

It is time wasting