Featured Why Are Sinners Told to “Seek the Lord”?

The general call for all humankind to repent and seek and call is not stating either a human innate ability nor the thinking of some that God has given the ability or is in some manner lessened by commanding yet not allowing.

Too often, (imo) the general believer is making an attempt to reconcile what they perceive as being fair with the actions and statements concerning God. That just doesn't work out very well.

For example: Why would God tell Moses that He would harden pharaoh's heart when the command, "Let My people go..." had to yet be delivered? Was it fair of God to not give the pharaoh an equal opportunity?

This is the same problem when dealing with all humanity, is God an equal opportunity presenter?

The answer is: Never, and Never will be.

He is the creator, the creation conforms to Him, not the other way around.

Because He knows all from the "Let there be light" then He can command what to human thinking is unfair. For He, alone, is the judge and executioner.

 

Why? Why? Why?
Your questioning is not an argument that makes your opinion valid.
God is God and he can do as He wants.
Exodus 4:11
Then the Lord said to him, “Who has made man’s mouth? Who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?
Habakkuk 1:5-7
“Look among the nations, and see; wonder and be astounded. For I am doing a work in your days that you would not believe if told. For behold, I am raising up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, who march through the breadth of the earth, to seize dwellings not their own. They are dreaded and fearsome; their justice and dignity go forth from themselves.

God does not waste anything. In fact, God answers you very clearly, but you will not receive what God tells you.

Romans 9:14-24
What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

Finally, to your last question, the non-elect person will never want to worship God. Even in hell they will wail and gnash their teeth at God.

How is it that these things confound you? Why can you not tolerate the truth that God is Sovereign over all things?

 

Seeking and Saving the Lost - Geerhardus Vos - Kerux 7:1 (May 1992)

SavedByGrace,

We believe what we post...you cannot or will not accept it.

Eph2 says this...we believe exactly what it says....
2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Do you believe this as we do?
.

That is what we find in scripture ,which once again we believe. Do you?

Yes we find that in scripture, so we believe it, Do You?

We find this in scripture...we believe it, Do You?

read carefully SBG;
14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

Do you believe this SBG?

Do not blame God that men love darkness rather than light. The offer is pure.

You and I do not know who is hellbound???

 

I hold to some "reformed" thinking, but not all. I hold to the Scriptures in all matters as my final authority.

I didn't know you did not know this.

I do agree that the reformed thinking is closer to the truth in many areas, but exceeds or neglects (depending on the presentation) the Scriptures in other areas.

As far as "free will" I really don't see you having a problem with that, for you yourself know that no man has complete freedom of choice on any matter. There is always the constraints of human law, ability, natural law, ... in which limit the freedom of the will. Why then would it be thought inaccurate to state plainly that only perfect gifts can come from above, and the best humans can do on their own is good.

The elect are born sinners as is everyone. They are not born sinless, and must also come to a "knowledge" of redemption. Salvation is not a generic happening, but each one redeemed has a personal experience (testimony) of that moment.

Now, just as the new born baby does not know it is born, but is merely responding to the change in environment, so too is the one crying out in belief. They are already born, for does not that statement appear in Romans? "The word is nigh you, even in your mouth and in your heart...." See, it is already there, the core change has been made, and the results of that change is the cry of the new born.

I think I responded to this common question in a previous post.

The better question is along the lines of can the unclean ever achieve clean? Of course not. Therefore, the unclean must first be touched by the clean before they then can be called clean.

Because God has selected according to His own purpose those to redeem some as His own in which He then puts to work doing His bidding does not oblige Him to redeem all, for all are condemned by their own efforts.

See, I think some miss this very point.

God did not predestine some to be His and some to eternal flames. Predestination teaching is not Scriptural.

What God did was select from ALL who are destined to the eternal flames those of His choice in which He then obliges to do His will to be redeemed.

 

rom2
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

SBG....
it did not stop Jesus;
36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

41 I receive not honour from men.

Jesus Himself preached it, why do you trouble yourself over these facts?

 

First, your story is a strawman.
Second, God never expresses salvation in this pattern...ever. You are now wandering into non-biblical speculation. This means YOU are being UNBIBLICAL!
(just channeling my sbg posting style... )

 

Do the Non-Elect Have a Chance to Repent?

 

Yeah that does not say preaching saves people.

 

@SavedByGrace

I do not want you to feel surrounded, so if you like, I will bow out of the thread for a while.

However, I hope that you and I may continue to respond graciously as we discuss and debate the truth.

Because He has. Why question His motivation? Why didn't He make humans with the ability to breath both air and use gills to extract oxygen also? Or why did He limit the people of Babylon by confusing their languages?

There are a lot of "why" questions that are only answered by stating that it is God's to answer and not humans to ask.

I suppose it also comes down to taking the authority of Scripture without question. The saying, "God said it and I believe it" is not an exercise in intellectual gymnastics, but a foundation of rock in which many stumble.

One last point to your post.

God did not "make sure" that humans cannot be redeemed. Rather, He confirmed their choice of rebellion just as he confirmed the hardness of the pharaoh's heart with further hardness.

Humankind are already dead in trespasses and sin. God didn't make them dead, nor did He make them sin. The results (wages) of sin is physical death.

However, believers are (as was in Egypt as the death angle went skulking about at night) as those who placed the blood on their doors, those that pass from this life to eternal life.

 

Perhaps because God will give someone Prevenient Grace to choose whether or not to follow Him? Grace is required because we are all Totally Depraved and cannot choose any good thing without God's Grace.

Any "good" decision we make without God's Grace is tainted by our own self-righteousness. No man can choose, by himself, anything truly Good.

I think I would likely be lumped in with the "Reformed/Calvinists" even though I am not haha.

 

I don't understand what most of the discussion evolved into but Jesus himself was clear-

"Jesus answered, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

Luke 5:32

Most of the miracles in the Bible are not strictly to show merely the cool things God can do, but his awesome love and compassion for his creation. He cares about our pain, even our physical pain.

Obviously, he cares about our salvation.

"And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all the nations."

Mark 13:10 (this has to happen before his return)

Why?

So they could know about it.

Why?

So they could be saved.