Why Are Sinners Told to “Seek the Lord”?

[SavedByGrace]

All men are responsible to worship God.
All men are responsible to seek the True God.

Yet they do not seek Him because they are bound and love sin.

The command to repent and believe, to seek Him, is preached to all.
Once again, God uses means, preaching, teaching, prayer, to urge sinners to seek Him. Why do you not understand this?

are you guys REALLY "reformed/calvinistic" in your theology, or is this all a smokescreen?

Your theology says that God has to QUICKEN the sinner before they can be saved, and that this QUICKENING is ONLY for the ELECT, who God has called to salvation, before the foundation of the world, and WILL be saved.

So, WHY would God even waste any time with those who are "vessels for destruction"? WHY would God require that these are to SEEK after Him, and CALL on His Name, when they CANNOT, as they are never going to be QUICKENED?

WHY would a non elect person, who is HELL BOUND, want to worship God, Who has made sure that they CANNOT be saved, as He has not QUICKENED them to call on Him???

Your theology is NOT even Biblical!

 

[SavedByGrace]

God did not turn the unbeliever away, they did that themself.

This is the opening statements of John who was the "disciple who Jesus loved."

9The true Light who gives light to every man was coming into the world. ​

So EVERY person is given the light, but what is the reaction to the light?

10He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him. 11He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.​

Your answer for your question then is found in the above passage.
People turn away, it is not in their nature not to turn away. Even His own - the elect, turn away.

So, what happens? If one is to receive Him, believe on His name, and they CANNOT come by birth right, by the desire, or by the will, how then do some respond to the general call to be saved?

The answer can only be, "all the Father gives me, will come to me..."

Because, "Then Jesus said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him.”

Humankind always has desired to conform God to what they think is the way it is, but God's ways and thoughts are not anywhere close to the extremely limited sight humans have been given.

Again, if you are "reformed", you really don't know what you believe and are on about!

you say, "God did not turn the unbeliever away, they did that themself". However, according to reformed theology, sinners CANNOT either CHOOSE or REJECT, as they don't even have a FREE WILL?

Then you say, "People turn away, it is not in their nature not to turn away. Even His own - the elect, turn away."

This is more double-talk! HOW can an elect person TURN AWAY from the CALL of God, when God, according to your theology, first QUICKENS the elect, which He has done, BEFORE THEIR BIRTH! Can they now RESIST God's will???

If, ONLY the elect are those who the Father has given to Jesus for their salvation, then, again I ask, WHY would God require that these are to SEEK after Him, and CALL on His Name, when they CANNOT, as they are never going to be QUICKENED?

Can you see the futility of your theology, and the double-standards?

 

[agedman]

you should read your Bible more, and less Reformed books!

For everyone, "whoever shall call on the name of the Lord will be saved." How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without PREACHING? And how shall they PREACH unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who PREACH the gospel of peace and bring glad tidings of good things!" Romans 10:13-15

you still just don't get it?

Does not the word "preach" mean to proclaim?

Some do not consider preaching as any witness done outside of church or from a pulpit. I wanted to clarify were you considered the meaning of preach was on the spectrum of thinking.

WHY, you the Bible require that the NON ELECT LOST, SEEK after God, and CALL on Him for salvation, when as your theology says, they cannot?

Does not God know all things?

The general call for all humankind to repent and seek and call is not stating either a human innate ability nor the thinking of some that God has given the ability or is in some manner lessened by commanding yet not allowing.

Too often, (imo) the general believer is making an attempt to reconcile what they perceive as being fair with the actions and statements concerning God. That just doesn't work out very well.

For example: Why would God tell Moses that He would harden pharaoh's heart when the command, "Let My people go..." had to yet be delivered? Was it fair of God to not give the pharaoh an equal opportunity?

This is the same problem when dealing with all humanity, is God an equal opportunity presenter?

The answer is: Never, and Never will be.

He is the creator, the creation conforms to Him, not the other way around.

Because He knows all from the "Let there be light" then He can command what to human thinking is unfair. For He, alone, is the judge and executioner.

 

[SavedByGrace]

The general call for all humankind to repent and seek and call is not stating either a human innate ability nor the thinking of some that God has given the ability or is in some manner lessened by commanding yet not allowing.

Too often, (imo) the general believer is making an attempt to reconcile what they perceive as being fair with the actions and statements concerning God. That just doesn't work out very well.

For example: Why would God tell Moses that He would harden pharaoh's heart when the command, "Let My people go..." had to yet be delivered? Was it fair of God to not give the pharaoh an equal opportunity?

This is the same problem when dealing with all humanity, is God an equal opportunity presenter?

The answer is: Never, and Never will be.

He is the creator, the creation conforms to Him, not the other way around.

Because He knows all from the "Let there be light" then He can command what to human thinking is unfair. For He, alone, is the judge and executioner.

you have missed the point. WHY would there be any CALL to those who are never even going to be saved, as they are NOT ELECT? God know all things, and certainly will not play games with anyone to require that these CALL on Him for slavation, which is what this is, when He already knows that they CANNOT, as He will never "make them alive" to do so, according to reformed theology? What you and the others are saying on here, makes God to be insincere, and unjust!

 

[AustinC]

are you guys REALLY "reformed/calvinistic" in your theology, or is this all a smokescreen?

Your theology says that God has to QUICKEN the sinner before they can be saved, and that this QUICKENING is ONLY for the ELECT, who God has called to salvation, before the foundation of the world, and WILL be saved.

So, WHY would God even waste any time with those who are "vessels for destruction"? WHY would God require that these are to SEEK after Him, and CALL on His Name, when they CANNOT, as they are never going to be QUICKENED?

WHY would a non elect person, who is HELL BOUND, want to worship God, Who has made sure that they CANNOT be saved, as He has not QUICKENED them to call on Him???

Your theology is NOT even Biblical!

Why? Why? Why?
Your questioning is not an argument that makes your opinion valid.
God is God and he can do as He wants.
Exodus 4:11
Then the Lord said to him, “Who has made man’s mouth? Who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?
Habakkuk 1:5-7
“Look among the nations, and see; wonder and be astounded. For I am doing a work in your days that you would not believe if told. For behold, I am raising up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, who march through the breadth of the earth, to seize dwellings not their own. They are dreaded and fearsome; their justice and dignity go forth from themselves.

God does not waste anything. In fact, God answers you very clearly, but you will not receive what God tells you.

Romans 9:14-24
What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

Finally, to your last question, the non-elect person will never want to worship God. Even in hell they will wail and gnash their teeth at God.

How is it that these things confound you? Why can you not tolerate the truth that God is Sovereign over all things?

 

[Iconoclast]

Seeking and Saving the Lost - Geerhardus Vos - Kerux 7:1 (May 1992)

SavedByGrace,

are you guys REALLY "reformed/calvinistic" in your theology, or is this all a smokescreen?

We believe what we post...you cannot or will not accept it.

Your theology says that God has to QUICKEN the sinner before they can be saved,

Eph2 says this...we believe exactly what it says....
2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Do you believe this as we do?
.

and that this QUICKENING is ONLY for the ELECT,

That is what we find in scripture ,which once again we believe. Do you?

who God has called to salvation, before the foundation of the world, and WILL be saved.

Yes we find that in scripture, so we believe it, Do You?

So, WHY would God even waste any time with those who are "vessels for destruction"?

We find this in scripture...we believe it, Do You?

read carefully SBG;
14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

Do you believe this SBG?

WHY would God require that these are to SEEK after Him, and CALL on His Name, when they CANNOT, as they are never going to be QUICKENED?

Do not blame God that men love darkness rather than light. The offer is pure.

WHY would a non elect person, who is HELL BOUND,

You and I do not know who is hellbound???

want to worship God, Who has made sure that they CANNOT be saved, [/QUOTE]

Another blame God for mans sin post...Adam sinned, not God.

as He has not QUICKENED them to call on Him???

Who says God has to quicken anybody?
That He in perfect wisdom has elected a multitude of dead sinners to save is a GREAT MERCY......He is not obligated to save anyone.

Your theology is NOT even Biblical!

it is totally biblical, you can see each statement is directly based on exact biblical quotes...you are just frustrated.

 

[agedman]

Again, if you are "reformed", you really don't know what you believe and are on about!

you say, "God did not turn the unbeliever away, they did that themself". However, according to reformed theology, sinners CANNOT either CHOOSE or REJECT, as they don't even have a FREE WILL?

I hold to some "reformed" thinking, but not all. I hold to the Scriptures in all matters as my final authority.

I didn't know you did not know this.

I do agree that the reformed thinking is closer to the truth in many areas, but exceeds or neglects (depending on the presentation) the Scriptures in other areas.

As far as "free will" I really don't see you having a problem with that, for you yourself know that no man has complete freedom of choice on any matter. There is always the constraints of human law, ability, natural law, ... in which limit the freedom of the will. Why then would it be thought inaccurate to state plainly that only perfect gifts can come from above, and the best humans can do on their own is good.

Then you say, "People turn away, it is not in their nature not to turn away. Even His own - the elect, turn away."

This is more double-talk! HOW can an elect person TURN AWAY from the CALL of God, when God, according to your theology, first QUICKENS the elect, which He has done, BEFORE THEIR BIRTH! Can they now RESIST God's will???

The elect are born sinners as is everyone. They are not born sinless, and must also come to a "knowledge" of redemption. Salvation is not a generic happening, but each one redeemed has a personal experience (testimony) of that moment.

Now, just as the new born baby does not know it is born, but is merely responding to the change in environment, so too is the one crying out in belief. They are already born, for does not that statement appear in Romans? "The word is nigh you, even in your mouth and in your heart...." See, it is already there, the core change has been made, and the results of that change is the cry of the new born.

If, ONLY the elect are those who the Father has given to Jesus for their salvation, then, again I ask, WHY would God require that these are to SEEK after Him, and CALL on His Name, when they CANNOT, as they are never going to be QUICKENED?

Can you see the futility of your theology, and the double-standards?

I think I responded to this common question in a previous post.

The better question is along the lines of can the unclean ever achieve clean? Of course not. Therefore, the unclean must first be touched by the clean before they then can be called clean.

Because God has selected according to His own purpose those to redeem some as His own in which He then puts to work doing His bidding does not oblige Him to redeem all, for all are condemned by their own efforts.

See, I think some miss this very point.

God did not predestine some to be His and some to eternal flames. Predestination teaching is not Scriptural.

What God did was select from ALL who are destined to the eternal flames those of His choice in which He then obliges to do His will to be redeemed.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Seeking and Saving the Lost - Geerhardus Vos - Kerux 7:1 (May 1992)

SavedByGrace,


We believe what we post...you cannot or will not accept it.



Eph2 says this...we believe exactly what it says....
2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Do you believe this as we do?
.



That is what we find in scripture ,which once again we believe. Do you?



Yes we find that in scripture, so we believe it, Do You?



We find this in scripture...we believe it, Do You?

read carefully SBG;
14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

Do you believe this SBG?



Do not blame God that men love darkness rather than light. The offer is pure.



You and I do not know who is hellbound???

you have still not answered from Scripture, WHY would God require that those who can never be saved, as they are not part of His elect, SEEK Him while He is near, can CALL on His Name for SALVATION, when He already KNOWS that they CANNOT do this? It is very simple when you read this without reformed theology in mind.

I know that sinners love darkness and not the Lord. I know that they would rather live lives that are sinful. BUT, if these are NON ELECT sinner, who can NEVER get saved, WHY would God even BOTHER with these, to make these requirements of them?

Do you get this?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Because God has selected according to His own purpose those to redeem some as His own in which He then puts to work doing His bidding does not oblige Him to redeem all, for all are condemned by their own efforts.

again, IF this is true, then WHY would God tell the NON ELECT, to SEEK Him and to CALL on His Name, when He knows that they CANNOT, because He has made sure of that, and that they can never be saved?

 

[SavedByGrace]

How many are there, who know that the person that they are interested in as a wife or husband, and you already know that they don't feel the same way about you, and they they would never marry them. Still expect that they call on them for the purpose of marriage? This would be a very sad waste of time!

 

[Iconoclast]

you have still not answered from Scripture, WHY would God require that those who can never be saved, as they are not part of His elect, SEEK Him while He is near, can CALL on His Name for SALVATION, when He already KNOWS that they CANNOT do this? It is very simple when you read this without reformed theology in mind.

I know that sinners love darkness and not the Lord. I know that they would rather live lives that are sinful. BUT, if these are NON ELECT sinner, who can NEVER get saved, WHY would God even BOTHER with these, to make these requirements of them?

Do you get this?

rom2
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

SBG....
it did not stop Jesus;
36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

41 I receive not honour from men.

Jesus Himself preached it, why do you trouble yourself over these facts?

 

[AustinC]

How many are there, who know that the person that they are interested in as a wife or husband, and you already know that they don't feel the same way about you, and they they would never marry them. Still expect that they call on them for the purpose of marriage? This would be a very sad waste of time!

First, your story is a strawman.
Second, God never expresses salvation in this pattern...ever. You are now wandering into non-biblical speculation. This means YOU are being UNBIBLICAL!
(just channeling my sbg posting style... )

 

[AustinC]

again, IF this is true, then WHY would God tell the NON ELECT, to SEEK Him and to CALL on His Name, when He knows that they CANNOT, because He has made sure of that, and that they can never be saved?

Do the Non-Elect Have a Chance to Repent?

 

[Reformed1689]

you should read your Bible more, and less Reformed books!

For everyone, "whoever shall call on the name of the Lord will be saved." How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without PREACHING? And how shall they PREACH unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who PREACH the gospel of peace and bring glad tidings of good things!" Romans 10:13-15

Yeah that does not say preaching saves people.

 

[agedman]

@SavedByGrace

I do not want you to feel surrounded, so if you like, I will bow out of the thread for a while.

However, I hope that you and I may continue to respond graciously as we discuss and debate the truth.

again, IF this is true, then WHY would God tell the NON ELECT, to SEEK Him and to CALL on His Name, when He knows that they CANNOT, because He has made sure of that, and that they can never be saved?

Because He has. Why question His motivation? Why didn't He make humans with the ability to breath both air and use gills to extract oxygen also? Or why did He limit the people of Babylon by confusing their languages?

There are a lot of "why" questions that are only answered by stating that it is God's to answer and not humans to ask.

I suppose it also comes down to taking the authority of Scripture without question. The saying, "God said it and I believe it" is not an exercise in intellectual gymnastics, but a foundation of rock in which many stumble.

One last point to your post.

God did not "make sure" that humans cannot be redeemed. Rather, He confirmed their choice of rebellion just as he confirmed the hardness of the pharaoh's heart with further hardness.

Humankind are already dead in trespasses and sin. God didn't make them dead, nor did He make them sin. The results (wages) of sin is physical death.

However, believers are (as was in Egypt as the death angle went skulking about at night) as those who placed the blood on their doors, those that pass from this life to eternal life.

 

[Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin]

Why Are Sinners Told to “Seek the Lord”?

Perhaps because God will give someone Prevenient Grace to choose whether or not to follow Him? Grace is required because we are all Totally Depraved and cannot choose any good thing without God's Grace.

Any "good" decision we make without God's Grace is tainted by our own self-righteousness. No man can choose, by himself, anything truly Good.

I think I would likely be lumped in with the "Reformed/Calvinists" even though I am not haha.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Yeah that does not say preaching saves people.

you need to get some English lessions!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Perhaps because God will give someone Prevenient Grace to choose whether or not to follow Him? Grace is required because we are all Totally Depraved and cannot choose any good thing without God's Grace.

Any "good" decision we make without God's Grace is tainted by our own self-righteousness. No man can choose, by himself, anything truly Good.

I think I would likely be lumped in with the "Reformed/Calvinists" even though I am not haha.

I do agree that the Grace, Goodness, and Conviction by the Lord is required before any sinner can call on Him for salvation. However, this means that the Death of Jesus Christ has to include every single human being, as they are ALL expected to SEEK the Lord and Call on His Name, not just some of them

 

[SavedByGrace]

@SavedByGrace

I do not want you to feel surrounded, so if you like, I will bow out of the thread for a while.

However, I hope that you and I may continue to respond graciously as we discuss and debate the truth.



Because He has. Why question His motivation? Why didn't He make humans with the ability to breath both air and use gills to extract oxygen also? Or why did He limit the people of Babylon by confusing their languages?

There are a lot of "why" questions that are only answered by stating that it is God's to answer and not humans to ask.

I suppose it also comes down to taking the authority of Scripture without question. The saying, "God said it and I believe it" is not an exercise in intellectual gymnastics, but a foundation of rock in which many stumble.

One last point to your post.

God did not "make sure" that humans cannot be redeemed. Rather, He confirmed their choice of rebellion just as he confirmed the hardness of the pharaoh's heart with further hardness.

Humankind are already dead in trespasses and sin. God didn't make them dead, nor did He make them sin. The results (wages) of sin is physical death.

However, believers are (as was in Egypt as the death angle went skulking about at night) as those who placed the blood on their doors, those that pass from this life to eternal life.

we are really not getting anywhere here.

The hardening of pharaoh's heart, is not in the context of salvation, so I never uderstand why the reformed quote this as if it were about this?

I firmly believe in the universal Death of Jesus Christ, but not universal salvation. As the sinner need first to "repent and believe", before they can get saved.

 

[Duckie]

Why Are Sinners Told to “Seek the Lord”?

“Seek the LORD while he may be found; call upon him while he is near; let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon” (Isaiah 55:6-7)

From this passage, it is clear that those called on to “seek the Lord”, are not “saved, born-again”, even though it uses, “return”, as though they had wandered from the Lord. As these are called “wicked” and “unrighteous”, which would never be used to describe a saved person.

WHY would the “elect”, need to SEEK the Lord, and CALL upon Him? They are supposed to have been “elected to salvation” before the foundation of the world. They are supposed to have the “inward call” from the Holy Spirit, and need not DO anything, so we are told!

In Acts chapter 17, we read of Paul’s visit to Athens, a city full of idols. To these unsaved people, Paul says, “to seek the Lord, if perhaps they might feel after Him and find Him, though indeed He is not far from each one of us” (verse 27) And, “Truly, then, God overlooking the times of ignorance, now He strictly commands all men everywhere to repent” (verse 30). This is not to the “elect”, so can only be for the entire human race, which these people in Athens are part of! There is no indication from this passage in Acts, that these people who Paul addressed, were the “elect”. He spoke the same Message to ALL those who were present. Clearly the sinner must DO something!

These passages make no sense at all, and quite pointless, if, as the “Reformed/Calvinists” say, that the sinner need not DO anything, as the “elect of God”, will be DRAGGED by the Holy Spirit, and WILL accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour! The Bible is clearly AGAINST this false teaching, as it is very clear, that ALL sinners are told to SEEK the Lord, and CALL on His Name for their salvation.

We read in Peter’s sermon on the Day of Pentecost:

“And it shall be that everyone whoever shall call upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved." (Acts 2:21)

We can see the contradiction that this man-made “theology” has with the Inspired, Infallible, Word of God.

I don't understand what most of the discussion evolved into but Jesus himself was clear-

"Jesus answered, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

Luke 5:32

Most of the miracles in the Bible are not strictly to show merely the cool things God can do, but his awesome love and compassion for his creation. He cares about our pain, even our physical pain.

Obviously, he cares about our salvation.

"And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all the nations."

Mark 13:10 (this has to happen before his return)

Why?

So they could know about it.

Why?

So they could be saved.