Why Confession?

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Both? Who do you mean?

You and Oseas

 

[Cathode]

You and Oseas

I’m not showing the animosity. Do you see me call him a follower of the satanic whore of Babylon and will be condemned to never ending hell.

His attacks are vile lies and way over the top and personal.

Are you seriously comparing what I have said, to his venomous bile.

Seriously?

I ignored him in the previous post and was talking about the spirituality you raised earlier, then for some inexplicable reason you call my post out as showing animosity.

Where was the animus in my post?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I’m not showing the animosity. Do you see me call him a follower of the satanic whore of Babylon and will be condemned to never ending hell.

His attacks are vile lies and way over the top and personal.

Are you seriously comparing what I have said, to his venomous bile.

Seriously?

I ignored him in the previous post and was talking about the spirituality you raised earlier, then for some inexplicable reason you call my post out as showing animosity.

Where was the animus in my post?

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 - New International Version

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Cathode, you are a Catholic in a Baptist forum. You need to tread lightly. They will only resent your efforts to prosyltise, especially with a Catholic doctrinal spin.

It’s my contention that you are convinced that catholism is the one true Christian faith, that is both myopic & arrogant. My kind are not boastful, not arrogant, not narrow minded in our prospective in Gods ways. We read, study and believe the Word… because where sin abounds, grace abounds much more.

Listen to me brother, there is only a moment in this temporal life….it is not me, it’s not any organized church, it’s Christ Himself who looks apon you and shatters your defenses and in that moment you will know that you are completely known by God any you are completely loved. Then you are born again, regenerated as a true child of God….a point of your life of renewal of regeneration… it’s a time to walk totally in Him alone in Faith & love.

Grace be with you

 

[Cathode]

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 - New International Version

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always...

www.biblegateway.com

I have been patient and kind considering the gross accusing and provocation Oseas3 has been perpetrating for years on me, not just months or weeks now.
How many years of this should I endure and remain mute before you grant me being a little patient or kind.
I doubt anyone on this site has endured even one percent of the vitriol Oseas3 has directed at me.

I’ve only tried to dispute the arguments not attack anyone personally.

 

[Cathode]

Cathode, you are a Catholic in a Baptist forum. You need to tread lightly. They will only resent your efforts to prosyltise, especially with a Catholic doctrinal spin.

I’m not proselytising. I find myself defending against accusations of satanism, paganry, idol worship and a whole host other false charges. For that I have to point out the very Christian origins of my beliefs, to set things straight as best I can.

I rather like to talk about practical spirituality, there are many things I have experienced that I have not even touched on, or feel would be appropriately received without attacks on it.

This is the Other Denominations sub forum, where you will hear the perspectives of other denominations you will certainly disagree with on something at some stage.

I hope that other denominations aren’t just invited here to be punching bags that aren’t allowed to defend their perspectives.

It’s my contention that you are convinced that catholism is the one true Christian faith, that is both myopic & arrogant.

Are you convinced that your beliefs are true, is that myopic and arrogant? Why would you believe it if you didn’t think it was true?
This doesn’t make sense to me mate, honestly.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I’m not proselytising. I find myself defending against accusations of satanism, paganry, idol worship and a whole host other false charges. For that I have to point out the very Christian origins of my beliefs, to set things straight as best I can.

I rather like to talk about practical spirituality, there are many things I have experienced that I have not even touched on, or feel would be appropriately received without attacks on it.

This is the Other Denominations sub forum, where you will hear the perspectives of other denominations you will certainly disagree with on something at some stage.

I hope that other denominations aren’t just invited here to be punching bags that aren’t allowed to defend their perspectives.



Are you convinced that your beliefs are true, is that myopic and arrogant? Why would you believe it if you didn’t think it was true?
This doesn’t make sense to me mate, honestly.

I’m a Primitive Baptist and we believe that God has children in every religious group and possibly untold numbers not belonging to any religious group. "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" (Revelation 5:9). "

 

[Cathode]

I’m a Primitive Baptist and we believe that God has children in every religious group and possibly untold numbers not belonging to any religious group. "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" (Revelation 5:9). "

Ok, but where does the truth come into it?

 

[Cathode]

And your church uses the name ROMAN, pagans who ruled by war, persecution and domination. If I was to consider a Catholic doctrine, I’d gravitate to the Eastern rite church before diving in to religious tradition.

Interestingly Catholics defeated the pagan Romans a number of ways.

One of the flaws in pagan Roman culture was the killing of newborn infants usually by drowning. Seneca describes the practice as common and acceptable presumably for financial reasons.

Secondly Roman men did not take to marriage and family as a preferred way of life and when they did marry they increasingly had smaller families. Prostitutes and pederasty was large part of Roman culture.
Contraception was also practiced.
Successive Roman governments had decrees and orders for men to have families for the good of the empire, alarmed at demographic declines. Mercenaries became the backbone of the Roman legions because Romans were not breeding enough to sustain a citizen soldier military of the past.

It was in these conditions that Christians encountered Roman civilisation.

Two things that Christians had was exclusivity from its Jewish roots and evangelism which was an entirely new idea. Christianity was the only evangelical religion in the ancient world, and it was a core tenet.

What was really destructive of pagan Rome was the exclusivity of Christianity, you could not be Christian and worship pagan gods.
Romans would have worshipped Christ and the pagan gods together otherwise, but exclusivity prevented that.

As Paul stated, you can not share the table of the Lord and the table of demons.

Tacitus wrote of the Jews

“Those who come over to their religion adopt the practice, and have this lesson first instilled into them, to despise all gods, to disown their country, and set at nought parents, children, and brethren. Still they provide for the increase of their numbers. It is a crime among them to kill any newly-born infant. They hold that the souls of all who perish in battle or by the hands of the executioner are immortal. Hence a passion for propagating their race and a contempt for death.”

This he would have said of the Christians as well, exclusivist and totally against infanticide.

The Jews while being exclusivist and natalist were not evangelistic and remained small in number.

Christians however were exclusivist, natalist and evangelistic, the combination of which caused the explosive compounding growth in numbers.

Good safe and well made network of Roman roads and common language across the empire facilitated nicely the new evangelical religion.

So from a few thousand believers in Judea to tens of millions in 300 years, Christians were a major demographic even before Constantine, even under persecution and especially under persecution. The Romans discovered the perverse outcome, that the more Christianity was persecuted the faster it grew.

So pagan Rome was was outbred, out preached, all while paganry was being religiously excluded.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Ok, but where does the truth come into it?

Interestingly Catholics defeated the pagan Romans a number of ways.

One of the flaws in pagan Roman culture was the killing of newborn infants usually by drowning. Seneca describes the practice as common and acceptable presumably for financial reasons.

Secondly Roman men did not take to marriage and family as a preferred way of life and when they did marry they increasingly had smaller families. Prostitutes and pederasty was large part of Roman culture.
Contraception was also practiced.
Successive Roman governments had decrees and orders for men to have families for the good of the empire, alarmed at demographic declines. Mercenaries became the backbone of the Roman legions because Romans were not breeding enough to sustain a citizen soldier military of the past.

It was in these conditions that Christians encountered Roman civilisation.

Two things that Christians had was exclusivity from its Jewish roots and evangelism which was an entirely new idea. Christianity was the only evangelical religion in the ancient world, and it was a core tenet.

What was really destructive of pagan Rome was the exclusivity of Christianity, you could not be Christian and worship pagan gods.
Romans would have worshipped Christ and the pagan gods together otherwise, but exclusivity prevented that.

As Paul stated, you can not share the table of the Lord and the table of demons.

Tacitus wrote of the Jews

“Those who come over to their religion adopt the practice, and have this lesson first instilled into them, to despise all gods, to disown their country, and set at nought parents, children, and brethren. Still they provide for the increase of their numbers. It is a crime among them to kill any newly-born infant. They hold that the souls of all who perish in battle or by the hands of the executioner are immortal. Hence a passion for propagating their race and a contempt for death.”

This he would have said of the Christians as well, exclusivist and totally against infanticide.

The Jews while being exclusivist and natalist were not evangelistic and remained small in number.

Christians however were exclusivist, natalist and evangelistic, the combination of which caused the explosive compounding growth in numbers.

Good safe and well made network of Roman roads and common language across the empire facilitated nicely the new evangelical religion.

So from a few thousand believers in Judea to tens of millions in 300 years, Christians were a major demographic even before Constantine, even under persecution and especially under persecution. The Romans discovered the perverse outcome, that the more Christianity was persecuted the faster it grew.

So pagan Rome was was outbred, out preached, all while paganry was being religiously excluded.

The True church can only be identified by its adherence to the doctrine and practice taught in the Scriptures.

 

[Cathode]

The True church can only be identified by its adherence to the doctrine and practice taught in the Scriptures.

Which church is that?

 

[Godisgracious1031]

Confess faults to each other, not sins (only to God)

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Which church is that?

Why mine of course

 

[Cathode]

Why mine of course

And you don’t feel myopic or arrogant in saying so?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

And you don’t feel myopic or arrogant in saying so?

And you don’t feel myopic or arrogant in saying so?

Nope

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Nope

…and if I did, if I believed they didn’t represent the word of God on this earth, then I’d be out of there and searching for a church that represents God the best…as it is, I found it in and among the Primitive Baptists.

 

[GentleGospeller]

Interestingly Catholics defeated the pagan Romans a number of ways.

From the Roman Catholic's own Twentieth Century Encyclopedia of Catholicism, written by the Jesuit, Andre Retif, SJ:

"The missionary history of the Church clearly shows her adaptability to all races, all continents, all nations. In her liturgy and her art, in her traditions and the forming of her doctrine, naturally enough she includes Jewish elements, but also elements that are of pagan origin. In a certain respect, she has copied her organization from that of the Roman Empire, has preserved and made fruitful the philosophical intuitions of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle, borrowed from both Barbarians and the Byzantine Roman Empire, but always remains herself, thoroughly digesting all elements drawn from external sources. In her laws, her ceremonies, her festivals and her devotions, she makes use of local customs after purifying them and 'baptizing' them. 'This adaptation of pagan customs,' says Fr. Sertillanges in Le Miracle de I'Eglise, p. 183, 'prudently regulated, allows for the utilization of instincts and sentiments that preserve local traditions, and so lends powerful aid to the furthering of the Gospel. . . . The Church's cultus of saints and martyrs is a helpful substitute and replaces popular divinities in the minds of the populace.'" — Vol. 88, p. 85. and quoted also in Andre Retif's, "The Catholic Spirit", page 85

THE CATHOLIC WORLD. A MONTHLY MAGAZINE OF GENERAL LITERATURE AND SCIENCE. VOL. LVIII. (58); OCTOBER, 1893. TO MARCH, 1894; NEW YORK: THE OFFICE OF THE CATHOLIC WORLD, 120 WEST 60th STREET. 1894. Copyright, 1894, by VERY REV. A. F. HEWIT.; page 809

“... [page 809] The church took the pagan philosophy and made it the buckler of faith against the heathen. She took the pagan, Ro-man Pantheon, temple of all the gods, and made it sacred to all the martyrs; so it stands to this day. She took the pagan Sunday and made it the Christian Sunday. She took the pagan Easter and made it the feast we celebrate during this season.

Sunday and Easter day are, if we consider their derivation, much the same. In truth, all Sundays are Sundays only be-cause they are a weekly, partial recurrence of Easter day. The pagan Sunday was, in a manner, an unconscious preparation for Easter day. The sun was a foremost god with heathen-dom. Balder the beautiful, the White God, the old Scandina-vians called him. The sun has worshippers at this hour in Persia and other lands. “Some of you,” says Carlyle, “may remember that fancy of Plato’s. A man is kept in some dark, underground cave from childhood till maturity; then suddenly is carried to the upper airs. For the first time he sees the sun shining in its splendor overhead. He must fall down, says Plato, and adore it.” There is, in truth, something royal, king-ly about the sun, making it a fit emblem of Jesus, the Sun of Justice. Hence the church in these countries would seem to have said, “Keep that old, pagan name. It shall remain conse-crated, sanctified.” And thus the pagan Sunday, dedicated to Balder, became the Christian Sunday, sacred to Jesus. The sun is a fitting emblem of Jesus. The Fathers often compared Jesus to the sun; as they compared Mary to the moon, the beau-tiful moon, the beautiful Mary, shedding her mild, beneficent light on the darkness and night of this world–not light of her own; no Catholic says this; but–light reflected from the sun, Jesus. ...” – Catholic World

THE EXTERNALS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, HER GOVERNMENT, CEREMONIES, FESTIVALS, SACRAMENTALS, AND DEVOTIONS BY REV. JOHN F. SULLIVAN OF THE DIOCESE OF PROVIDENCE, REVISED TO CONFORM TO THE NEW CODE OF CANON LAW, THIRD EDITION, NEW YORK: P. J. KENEDY & SONS PUBLISHERS TO THE HOLY APOSTOLIC SEE, COPYRIGHT, 1917 & 1918 BY P. J. KENEDY & SONS; page 156

“Nihil Obstat:
Arthur J. Scanlan, S.T.D.
Censor Librorum

Imprimatur:
[Maltese Cross] John Cardinal Farley, D.D.
Archbishop of New York”

“... [page 156] CHAPTER XXVII
HOLY WATER​

IT is interesting to note how often our Church has availed herself of practices which were in common use among pagans, and which owed their origin to their appropriateness for express-ing something by material means. The Church and her clergy are “all things to all men, that they may gain all for Christ,” and she has often found that it was well to take what was praiseworthy in other forms of worship and adapt it to her own purposes, for the sanctification of her children. Thus it is true, in a certain sense, that some Catholic rites and ceremonies are a reproduction of those pagan creeds; but they are the taking of what was best from paganism, the keeping of sym-bolical practices which express the religious instinct that is com-mon to all races and times. ...” – https://books.google.com/books?id=4A3AQAAMAAJ&pg=pa156#v=onepage&q&f=false


AN ESSAY ON THE DEVELOPMENT OF CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE BY JOHN HENRY CARDINAL NEWMAN, THIRTEENTH IMPRESSION, LONGMANS, GREEN, AND CO., 39 PATERNOSTER ROW, LONDON, NEW YORK AND BOMBAY, 1906, page 373

“... [page 373] The example set by St. Gregory in an age of persecution was impetuously followed when a time of peace succeeded. In the course of the fourth century two movements or developments spread over the face of Christendom, with a rapidity characteristic of the Church; the one ascetic, the other ritual or ceremonial. We are told in various ways by Eusebius,7 that Constantine, in order to recommend the new religion to the heathen, transferred into it the outward ornaments to which they had been accustomed in their own. It is not necessary to go into a subject which the diligence of Protestant writers has made familiar to most of us. The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holydays and seasons; use of calendars; processions, blessings on the fields; sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images at a later date, perhaps the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison,8 are all of page origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church.

7 V. Const. iii. 1, iv. 23, &c.

8 According to Dr. E. D. Clarke, Travels, vol. i, p. 352. ...” - An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine

The Roman Catholic Encyclopedia (Online), “M”, “St. Michael the Archangel”, subsection “Veneration”:

“... In Germany, after its evangelization, St. Michael replaced for the Christians the pagan god Wotan, to whom many mountains were sacred, hence the numerous mountain chapels of St. Michael all over Germany. ...” - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: St. Michael the Archangel

 

[Cathode]

From the Roman Catholic's own Twentieth Century Encyclopedia of Catholicism, written by the Jesuit, Andre Retif, SJ:

"The missionary history of the Church clearly shows her adaptability to all races, all continents, all nations. In her liturgy and her art, in her traditions and the forming of her doctrine, naturally enough she includes Jewish elements, but also elements that are of pagan origin. In a certain respect, she has copied her organization from that of the Roman Empire, has preserved and made fruitful the philosophical intuitions of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle, borrowed from both Barbarians and the Byzantine Roman Empire, but always remains herself, thoroughly digesting all elements drawn from external sources. In her laws, her ceremonies, her festivals and her devotions, she makes use of local customs after purifying them and 'baptizing' them. 'This adaptation of pagan customs,' says Fr. Sertillanges in Le Miracle de I'Eglise, p. 183, 'prudently regulated, allows for the utilization of instincts and sentiments that preserve local traditions, and so lends powerful aid to the furthering of the Gospel. . . . The Church's cultus of saints and martyrs is a helpful substitute and replaces popular divinities in the minds of the populace.'" — Vol. 88, p. 85. and quoted also in Andre Retif's, "The Catholic Spirit", page 85

THE CATHOLIC WORLD. A MONTHLY MAGAZINE OF GENERAL LITERATURE AND SCIENCE. VOL. LVIII. (58); OCTOBER, 1893. TO MARCH, 1894; NEW YORK: THE OFFICE OF THE CATHOLIC WORLD, 120 WEST 60th STREET. 1894. Copyright, 1894, by VERY REV. A. F. HEWIT.; page 809

“... [page 809] The church took the pagan philosophy and made it the buckler of faith against the heathen. She took the pagan, Ro-man Pantheon, temple of all the gods, and made it sacred to all the martyrs; so it stands to this day. She took the pagan Sunday and made it the Christian Sunday. She took the pagan Easter and made it the feast we celebrate during this season.

Sunday and Easter day are, if we consider their derivation, much the same. In truth, all Sundays are Sundays only be-cause they are a weekly, partial recurrence of Easter day. The pagan Sunday was, in a manner, an unconscious preparation for Easter day. The sun was a foremost god with heathen-dom. Balder the beautiful, the White God, the old Scandina-vians called him. The sun has worshippers at this hour in Persia and other lands. “Some of you,” says Carlyle, “may remember that fancy of Plato’s. A man is kept in some dark, underground cave from childhood till maturity; then suddenly is carried to the upper airs. For the first time he sees the sun shining in its splendor overhead. He must fall down, says Plato, and adore it.” There is, in truth, something royal, king-ly about the sun, making it a fit emblem of Jesus, the Sun of Justice. Hence the church in these countries would seem to have said, “Keep that old, pagan name. It shall remain conse-crated, sanctified.” And thus the pagan Sunday, dedicated to Balder, became the Christian Sunday, sacred to Jesus. The sun is a fitting emblem of Jesus. The Fathers often compared Jesus to the sun; as they compared Mary to the moon, the beau-tiful moon, the beautiful Mary, shedding her mild, beneficent light on the darkness and night of this world–not light of her own; no Catholic says this; but–light reflected from the sun, Jesus. ...” – Catholic World

THE EXTERNALS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, HER GOVERNMENT, CEREMONIES, FESTIVALS, SACRAMENTALS, AND DEVOTIONS BY REV. JOHN F. SULLIVAN OF THE DIOCESE OF PROVIDENCE, REVISED TO CONFORM TO THE NEW CODE OF CANON LAW, THIRD EDITION, NEW YORK: P. J. KENEDY & SONS PUBLISHERS TO THE HOLY APOSTOLIC SEE, COPYRIGHT, 1917 & 1918 BY P. J. KENEDY & SONS; page 156

“Nihil Obstat:
Arthur J. Scanlan, S.T.D.
Censor Librorum

Imprimatur:
[Maltese Cross] John Cardinal Farley, D.D.
Archbishop of New York”

“... [page 156] CHAPTER XXVII
HOLY WATER​

IT is interesting to note how often our Church has availed herself of practices which were in common use among pagans, and which owed their origin to their appropriateness for express-ing something by material means. The Church and her clergy are “all things to all men, that they may gain all for Christ,” and she has often found that it was well to take what was praiseworthy in other forms of worship and adapt it to her own purposes, for the sanctification of her children. Thus it is true, in a certain sense, that some Catholic rites and ceremonies are a reproduction of those pagan creeds; but they are the taking of what was best from paganism, the keeping of sym-bolical practices which express the religious instinct that is com-mon to all races and times. ...” – https://books.google.com/books?id=4A3AQAAMAAJ&pg=pa156#v=onepage&q&f=false


AN ESSAY ON THE DEVELOPMENT OF CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE BY JOHN HENRY CARDINAL NEWMAN, THIRTEENTH IMPRESSION, LONGMANS, GREEN, AND CO., 39 PATERNOSTER ROW, LONDON, NEW YORK AND BOMBAY, 1906, page 373

“... [page 373] The example set by St. Gregory in an age of persecution was impetuously followed when a time of peace succeeded. In the course of the fourth century two movements or developments spread over the face of Christendom, with a rapidity characteristic of the Church; the one ascetic, the other ritual or ceremonial. We are told in various ways by Eusebius,7 that Constantine, in order to recommend the new religion to the heathen, transferred into it the outward ornaments to which they had been accustomed in their own. It is not necessary to go into a subject which the diligence of Protestant writers has made familiar to most of us. The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holydays and seasons; use of calendars; processions, blessings on the fields; sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images at a later date, perhaps the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison,8 are all of page origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church.

7 V. Const. iii. 1, iv. 23, &c.

8 According to Dr. E. D. Clarke, Travels, vol. i, p. 352. ...” - An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine

The Roman Catholic Encyclopedia (Online), “M”, “St. Michael the Archangel”, subsection “Veneration”:

“... In Germany, after its evangelization, St. Michael replaced for the Christians the pagan god Wotan, to whom many mountains were sacred, hence the numerous mountain chapels of St. Michael all over Germany. ...” - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: St. Michael the Archangel

Your point?

 

[Cathode]

Nope

Could you kindly rescind your charges of me being myopic and arrogant, in that case.

 

[Oseas3]

REVELATION 13
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against GOD, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven(Ephesians 1:3-8).

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a Beast rise up out of the sea (Gentile MAN Beast), having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the Beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lionDaniel 7:2-10) and the dragon(Revelation 13:11-18 combined with Revelation 12:3-4-(red dragon) gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

3 And I saw one of his heads(South America) as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the Beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon( that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: which gave power unto the Beastof sea) and they worshipped the (MAN) Beast, saying, Who is like unto the Beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Get ready