...and few read your essays. Short, brief, and to the point, folks will read.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Why did Christ say he would draw all men to himself.
- Status
...and few read your essays. Short, brief, and to the point, folks will read.
Ooooppps, where are you getting the non-elect? Your theology requires you to make up some new doctrines.It is reasonable to believe the words and to follow the logic of the scriptures.
Jesus said, "If I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me." Then after he was lifted up and resurrected he said "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature." Is every creature the same as all?
Previously and before he was lifted up he said the following to the same men;
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Logic would have us to reasonably conclude that before he was lifted up he was not drawing all men unto himself. No?
Last edited:
Logic requires you prove a universal claim. You claim that Jesus has drawn and does draw 100% of all humanity to himself. Your task is to prove that 100% of all humanity is drawn. Tell me about that tribe on an island off the India coast where no Christian has survived. Did Jesus draw all these folks to himself?
You want to go with logic? Prove your universal assertion or admit you misspoke.
Are you preaching the non doctrine of the non elect as well?
See, you did not answer a single question I asked but went into a hysterical rant asking me to prove what I did not say. Ask me a question based on what I said and not what you misinterpreted my words to say and I will give you an answer.
You have demonstrated the prevailing MO of the Reformed in your post.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Um, if some are elect, that necessitates the rest be non-elect.
37818
Well-Known Member
What comes to mind is this cross reference.
John 11:48, ". . . If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation. . . ." John 11:53, ". . .Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death."
With:
John 12:32-33, ". . . And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die. . . .,"
John 11:48, ". . . If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation. . . ." John 11:53, ". . .Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death."
With:
John 12:32-33, ". . . And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die. . . .,"
So...logic isn't your strong suit.
universal statement – Essential Thinking for Philosophy
It's funny that you think my expectation that you prove your universal statement somehow becomes me being hysterical.
I understand, you cannot prove a universal "all" statement, therefore, logically, you are wrong.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
That's Gods business, none of mine, the question is what if?... He could have saved everyone?... Why didn't he?... What is amazing is that he saved anyone?... All deserved his WRATH, NONE deserved his love... ... We LOVE him because he first LOVED us!... Quit putting the cart before the horse... Brother Glen
Romans 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God
Read verse 22 again
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction
these are already on their way to destruction, which cannot mean heaven. WHY would God ENDURE WITH MUCH LONGSUFFERING with this damned? The answer is found in 2 Peter 3:9
he Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is LONGSUFFERING toward you, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance
It is evident that God even desires the salvation of these who are on their way to destruction!
God was long-suffering for the sake of the wheat, not the tares.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness; but is longsuffering to you-ward, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Pet 3:9
Peter was the apostle to the Jews and the 'longsuffering to you-ward' is the forty years God gave the Jews to repent and avoid 'the wrath to come' upon that generation and bringing the curses/plagues of Lev 26/Dt 28 down upon their progeny. 'I gave her time that she should repent; and she willeth not to repent' Re 2:21.
'Not wishing that any should perish' is in the same vein as Acts 2:40:
And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation.
Or Acts 3:23:
And it shall be, that every soul that shall not hearken to that prophet, shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.
Or Rev 18:4:
Come forth, my people, out of her, that ye have no fellowship with her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues:
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
WHY would God even bother with those who are "vessels of destruction", as they are already hell-bound, which must mean according to Reformed theology, that they are non-elect? Why would God be LONGSUFFERING towards these? The only reason is that He desires their salvation, which is what 2 Peter 3:9 says.
Right. God 'endured' the evil for the sake of the good:
22 What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering vessels of wrath fitted unto destruction:
23 and that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he afore prepared unto glory, Ro 9
Are you intentionally twisting the scriptures? Does the Calvinist Derangement Syndrome that you suffer from drive you to do this? In no way does the passage indicate His longsuffering was 'towards' the vessels of wrath. God 'endured' the vessels of wrath while He 'patiently' waited for the vessels of mercy which He had afore prepared unto glory (Matthew 13:30).
Last edited:
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
I see your normal twisted Calvinist theology which is not what the Bible actually says
I see your Calvinist Derangement Syndrome is still hindering you.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Say what you will, neither you nor anyone else who believes the Calvinistic nonsense on Romans 9, can answer these passages!
A perfect example of accusing God through a question and then coming to a false conclusion.
The answer to Romans 9 actually goes back to Romans 1. Read the whole letter. Follow the argument Paul is making and go back to earlier points to see how Paul makes connections.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
All men means all His Sheep from amongst jew and gentile. And to draw means to regenerate, give them new life and faith.
I agree with the first sentence.
The second sentence, to draw, means to drag. The greek word does not mean to regenerate. So in this case, Jesus will drag (or pull up from the pit) all men whom he chooses to pull up. The use of the word "all" signifies that it is not just ethnic Jews that are chosen. Instead, people are chosen from every nation, tribe and tongue.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
More RUBBISH
I asked you simple questions that should have provoked thought. Why didn't they?
- Status