Why did Peter begin to sink?

[jbh28]

Ok, follow up question. Is Peter's lack of trust a result of God's failure to provide Peter with that ability, or did God provide what was needed and Peter freely chose to "not trust" as he should?

I'll say it this way, it's not a result of God's failure.

Matthew 14: 29-31
He said, “Come.” So Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water and came to Jesus. But when he saw the wind, he was afraid, and beginning to sink he cried out, “Lord, save me.” Jesus immediately reached out his hand and took hold of him, saying to him, “O you of little faith, why did you doubt?”

It's when Peter sees the wind, he became afraid. I find it interesting that He did cry out to Jesus to save him. What I do see though is that before that, he doubted. He looked at the cares of the world(to put it in everyday use) instead of looking to Jesus. We as Christians can do that, and do do that. We have a huge bill to come. Instead of looking to Jesus Initially, we look around. We doubt. Then when we are in real trouble(Peter sinking) we cry out to God for help. I told the men at my church a couple weeks back during our prayer breakfast about how we tend to worry about things until someone else can help us out. How come we trust men who fail us so easily instead of trusting God who never fails us.

 

[Skandelon]

I'll say it this way, it's not a result of God's failure.

I agree. But, allow me to continue, if you don't mind:

If God hasn't failed to grant Peter what he needed, then what caused Peter to 'not trust' Jesus as he should?

 

[Havensdad]

Ok, follow up question. Is Peter's lack of trust a result of God's failure to provide Peter with that ability, or did God provide what was needed and Peter freely chose to "not trust" as he should?

No, it was a result of Peter's wickedness in not trusting God. God could have provided the faith for Peter to trust Him, and veto Peter's own choice (as He did with Paul on the road to Damascus), but chose not to do so at this time, in order to fulfill the scriptures, and provide an example for others to learn from.

 

[Skandelon]

No, it was a result of Peter's wickedness in not trusting God. God could have provided the faith for Peter to trust Him, and veto Peter's own choice (as He did with Paul on the road to Damascus), but chose not to do so at this time, in order to fulfill the scriptures, and provide an example for others to learn from.

To learn what....that if God doesn't effectually cause you to trust him, you can't?

 

[percho]

Because he of his own free will could not muster up enough faith to stay
afloat.

 

[DHK]

Because he of his own free will could not muster up enough faith to stay
afloat.

Faith is not something you "muster up." Faith is confidence. It is confidence in the word of another. Did Peter have confidence in the word of Christ? Yes or no? As long as he focused on Christ he had the confidence that Christ would keep him afloat. But he took his eyes off Christ, much like some drivers take their eyes off the road (inattention) and get themselves in an accident. In taking his eyes off Christ he became worried and more concerned with the circumstances of his own life (selfishness)--the waves around him. His focus was no longer on Christ. His confidence had waned because he had taken his eyes off of the object of his faith (Christ), and now he was looking elsewhere. Pride cometh before the fall. A good illustration of that is here.

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith."
We must keep our focus on him.

 

[JesusFan]

Mat 14:25 And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea.
26 And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.
27 But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid.
28 And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.
29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.
30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord save me.
31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

This question is simple, why did Peter begin to sink? Did Jesus's power fail, or did Peter's faith fail?

jesus used this as an object lesson to all of us...

IF jesus is the object/focus of your faith, indeed all things that God wants to do through you is possible, but place your focus back on yourself, and you will fail and fall!

 

[preacher4truth]

Because he of his own free will could not muster up enough faith to stay afloat.

:thumbsup:

Look, I mean no harm here, but the freewillers, for a certain percentage, see "faith" as some magical thing within them. The extreme of this is seen via television "evangelists." Then we have what is now know as "toxic-faith" where a parent will "believe" that his or her child will be healed, because they believed and had "no doubt in their heart" therefore God MUST heal them. All sorts of error come from the wrong concept of what faith is. It is not something within man. It is the gift of God, and it doesn't practice these foolish things I've mentioned above. As you say, it is seen as something some "muster up."

- Peace

 

[JesusFan]

:thumbsup:

Look, I mean no harm here, but the freewillers, for a certain percentage, see "faith" as some magical thing within them. The extreme of this is seen via television "evangelists." Then we have what is now know as "toxic-faith" where a parent will "believe" that his or her child will be healed, because they believed and had "no doubt in their heart" therefore God MUST heal them. All sorts of error come from the wrong concept of what faith is. It is not something within man. It is the gift of God, and it doesn't practice these foolish things I've mentioned above. As you say, it is seen as something some "muster up."

- Peace

Interesting thing here is that Jesus Himself told us that what counts is us having faith in God, as faith "small as a Mustard seed" can move the mountain, as God is one doing the work, he did not say "have faith in your faith!"

 

[DHK]

Interesting thing here is that Jesus Himself told us that what counts is us having faith in God, as faith "small as a Mustard seed" can move the mountain, as God is one doing the work, he did not say "have faith in your faith!"

That is precisely the idea that I get from the expression "mustering up some faith." It seems to be used by Word of Faith adherents. Faith is not a tangible; not something you can lay hold of, store up, grab, accumulate, etc.
It is the quiet confidence that one must have in the Almighty Creator, whose promises are sure, and we have the assurance that He will keep them.

If you have faith as a little child--100% confidence in his parents that they will provide for him all of his necessities for his life. That simple child-like faith or confidence in his father and mother; that is the faith we must have in our heavenly Father.

 

[preacher4truth]

That is precisely the idea that I get from the expression "mustering up some faith." It seems to be used by Word of Faith adherents. Faith is not a tangible; not something you can lay hold of, store up, grab, accumulate, etc.
It is the quiet confidence that one must have in the Almighty Creator, whose promises are sure, and we have the assurance that He will keep them.

If you have faith as a little child--100% confidence in his parents that they will provide for him all of his necessities for his life. That simple child-like faith or confidence in his father and mother; that is the faith we must have in our heavenly Father.

Do you have proof-texts proving faith is the same exact thing as confidence in a chair, parents, car, bridge? Or is this faith supernatural and a gift from God?

God led Abraham, and later Abraham believed, because of the Word of God, not because of something he had within himself, but something from God Himself.

For failure of a better illustration, this description reminds me of Polar Express, where one had to "believe" and voila.

I for one don't believe any person at all is capable inthemselves to believe 100% that God raised Jesus from the dead. It takes a supernatural gift of God to do so. The natural man cannot do this. It all comes from Him, not "something" within us.

 

[Winman]

Interesting thing here is that Jesus Himself told us that what counts is us having faith in God, as faith "small as a Mustard seed" can move the mountain, as God is one doing the work, he did not say "have faith in your faith!"

You are missing the point, if Peter got his faith from Jesus as a gift, why did he doubt and begin to sink?

 

[jbh28]

You are missing the point, if Peter got his faith from Jesus as a gift, why did he doubt and begin to sink?

Is faith ever a gift from God?

 

[DHK]

Do you have proof-texts proving faith is the same exact thing as confidence in a chair, parents, car, bridge? Or is this faith supernatural and a gift from God?

The absence of any Scripture showing that faith is a gift of God is proof enough. That onus is not on me. It is on you to prove that it is. Your acceptance of Calvinism is by blind faith, just like a Muslim accepts that he will go to paradise if blows himself up. You here this often enough and long enough that you believe it blindly without any Scriptural support. Show me from the Bible where it is a gift from God.

Faith comes from hearing. It comes from hearing the Word of God, as far as Biblical faith is concerned. All faith comes from hearing someone, something. We put our trust in people or things because they tell us the truth. Thus faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. (Rom.10:17)

He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. (Romans 4:20-21)
--The example of Abraham:
1. He was strong in faith: our example of faith.
2. The best definition of faith is given here:
Being fully persuaded that what God had promised he would perform. That is faith. It is confidence in the word of another; in this case Abraham's confidence in God's word that he would perform the miracle of Isaac's birth even though both he and Sarah were well past the age of bearing.

God led Abraham, and later Abraham believed, because of the Word of God, not because of something he had within himself, but something from God Himself.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing from the Word of God. Point demonstrated. He was confident (had faith) that what God had promised he would do.

For failure of a better illustration, this description reminds me of Polar Express, where one had to "believe" and voila.

That is exactly what I am arguing against--mustering up faith, and voila!

I for one don't believe any person at all is capable inthemselves to believe 100% that God raised Jesus from the dead. It takes a supernatural gift of God to do so. The natural man cannot do this. It all comes from Him, not "something" within us.

I pity you. Read the testimony of Josh McDowell (there have been others besides him). He didn't believe Christ had risen from the dead. He denied the deity of Christ. He was a well known skeptic. He did everything in his power to both deny the deity and the resurrection of Christ. He researched the matter thoroughly when he was at university. The more research he did, the more convinced he became, until he could no longer deny the fact that Christ did indeed rise from the dead. It was only after then that Josh McDowell became a Christian. There was nothing supernatural about that. He had to be convinced with the mind that the gospel message was true. If man is not convinced with his mind, intellectually, there is no use in going any further. When witnessing to an unbeliever, if you can't get past the first four or five words of the Bible you may as well quit. "In the beginning God." If he doesn't believe in God, or that God is his Creator, you might as well quit right there. It is a problem of unbelief; a problem of the intellect as well as the heart. And the Holy Spirit is not going to work until that heart is ready to believe.

 

[jbh28]

The absence of any Scripture showing that faith is a gift of God is proof enough. That onus is not on me. It is on you to prove that it is. Your acceptance of Calvinism is by blind faith, just like a Muslim accepts that he will go to paradise if blows himself up. You here this often enough and long enough that you believe it blindly without any Scriptural support. Show me from the Bible where it is a gift from God.

Not sure this was called for. And we have given plenty of passages, so don't say we haven't. But there is no reason to say "blind faith" nor compare to a cult. Maybe you should edit that portion of your post of person attack(violation of BB rules) and just have the part defending your believe.

 

[DHK]

Not sure this was called for. And we have given plenty of passages, so don't say we haven't. But there is no reason to say "blind faith" nor compare to a cult. Maybe you should edit that portion of your post of person attack(violation of BB rules) and just have the part defending your believe.

I didn't compare anyone to a cult.
A person who believes something without evidence believes it blindly. Then I gave an example. Because I gave an example out of Islam does not mean I was comparing anyone to Islam. I could have given many illustrations of people who act on "blind faith." It is believing without reason.

If you have given so many Scriptures, why did we go through five threads on the subject without anyone being able to give a text of Scripture demonstrating that faith was a gift of God, especially to the unsaved?

 

[preacher4truth]

The absence of any Scripture showing that faith is a gift of God is proof enough. That onus is not on me. It is on you to prove that it is. Your acceptance of Calvinism is by blind faith, just like a Muslim accepts that he will go to paradise if blows himself up. You here this often enough and long enough that you believe it blindly without any Scriptural support. Show me from the Bible where it is a gift from God.

No need to align me with a Muslim. I see you still have not gotten beyond name calling and personal attacks. This is shameful behavior for a Christian, and definitely uncalled for from a moderator.

I've given, as well as others, ample Scriptures showing faith a gift.

 

[preacher4truth]

I didn't compare anyone to a cult.
A person who believes something without evidence believes it blindly. Then I gave an example. Because I gave an example out of Islam does not mean I was comparing anyone to Islam. I could have given many illustrations of people who act on "blind faith." It is believing without reason.

If you have given so many Scriptures, why did we go through five threads on the subject without anyone being able to give a text of Scripture demonstrating that faith was a gift of God, especially to the unsaved?

You compared me to a muslim who blows himself up. I gave you evidence, and now on top of being a muslim, I am also blind, right?

 

[DHK]

No need to align me with a Muslim. I see you still have not gotten beyond name calling and personal attacks. This is shameful behavior for a Christian, and definitely uncalled for from a moderator.

I've given, as well as others, ample Scriptures showing faith a gift.

I did not align you with a Muslim.
Hindus believe that the Ganges River washes away sin.
That is another example of blind faith.

Christians do not operate by blind faith.
The illustration was about blind faith. If you believe without reason, you are believing with blind faith.

 

[jbh28]

I didn't compare anyone to a cult.
A person who believes something without evidence believes it blindly. Then I gave an example. Because I gave an example out of Islam does not mean I was comparing anyone to Islam. I could have given many illustrations of people who act on "blind faith." It is believing without reason.

If you have given so many Scriptures, why did we go through five threads on the subject without anyone being able to give a text of Scripture demonstrating that faith was a gift of God, especially to the unsaved?

I only warn you once. Obviously, you don't want to play nicely. We have given Scriptures. Not going to discuss something with one compares to a cult. And yes, you that's what you did. Giving an example of comparing one to a cult or how its like a cult is comparing to a cult no matter how you slice it.