Why do you sin?

[Winman]

Psalm 51:5
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Again, this verse is very different in the King James Bible.

Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

This verse is not saying all men are born with a sin nature, although I can see how the NIV would lead you to believe that.

If we are born with a sin nature that compels us to sin, then sin is not our fault, but God's fault who cursed you to have that sin nature. If this were the case, David would not be confessing his sin at all, but blaming God.

Is a lion guilty because his nature compels him to kill the zebra to eat? It would be no different if you were born with a nature that compels you to sin.

Sinful nature dwelt at conception no matter how much you want to believe other wise flesh and sinful nature is together. Jesus defeated the flesh so those who are in Him in His rest will also defeat the flesh the sinful nature.

No, David said he was fearfully and wonderfully made.

Psa 139:14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

What would be wonderful or marvelous about being born a wicked sinner with a nature that compels you to sin that leads to eternal death?

So, Psa 51:5 cannot mean what you believe it says. David did not believe he was born sinful, he believed he was born wonderful and marvelous.

Temptation is not sin I agree with you on but that is another subject..

No, it IS the subject. Temptation is what people mistake for the sin nature. Because your body enjoys and lusts after women is not sin, it is temptation. It is only when you allow yourself to dwell on your lust and your imagination kicks in, or that you actually commit fornication that you have sinned. If you look away quickly you have not sinned.

Sinful nature is a tendency toward sin.

You just PROVED what I just said, you mistake temptation for a sinful nature. Jesus was flesh and tempted in ALL POINTS as we are, yet without sin.

Praise God there is no one good any percentage because Jesus came to save sinners and I am the worst

Boasting how sinful you are won't save you. But yes, we are all sinners and Jesus died for us.

Nevertheless, having a body that tempts us is not a sin nature, because Jesus had a body that tempted him to sin. And Jesus was HOLY.

 

[psalms109:31]

Again, this verse is very different in the King James Bible.

Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

This verse is not saying all men are born with a sin nature, although I can see how the NIV would lead you to believe that.

If we are born with a sin nature that compels us to sin, then sin is not our fault, but God's fault who cursed you to have that sin nature. If this were the case, David would not be confessing his sin at all, but blaming God.

Is a lion guilty because his nature compels him to kill the zebra to eat? It would be no different if you were born with a nature that compels you to sin.



No, David said he was fearfully and wonderfully made.

Psa 139:14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

What would be wonderful or marvelous about being born a wicked sinner with a nature that compels you to sin that leads to eternal death?

So, Psa 51:5 cannot mean what you believe it says. David did not believe he was born sinful, he believed he was born wonderful and marvelous.


2 Corinthians 12:9
And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.


No, it IS the subject. Temptation is what people mistake for the sin nature. Because your body enjoys and lusts after women is not sin, it is temptation. It is only when you allow yourself to dwell on your lust and your imagination kicks in, or that you actually commit fornication that you have sinned. If you look away quickly you have not sinned.



You just PROVED what I just said, you mistake temptation for a sinful nature. Jesus was flesh and tempted in ALL POINTS as we are, yet without sin.



Boasting how sinful you are won't save you. But yes, we are all sinners and Jesus died for us.

Nevertheless, having a body that tempts us is not a sin nature, because Jesus had a body that tempted him to sin. And Jesus was HOLY.

You are the one trying to confuse temptation as sinful nature, both king james and NIV is both saying the same thing, but you don't see it as I do, you are really reaching trying to put scripture into your belief system.

I gave you scripture that can't be refuting, but you do. I am the bad guy with all the others, because I should see those scripture as you.

In sin we are conceived in this sin nature, flesh

Sin nature does not condemn us, all men are sinners not one righteous does.

I believe infants are in His rest and have not begun to work to have to enter His rest, so they have not worked they are in His rest

Infants are not condemned and don't know when they start to work to have to enter His rest to be saved

You believe what you believe because of infants.

We don't worship a God named Moloch.

I also will not deny scripture that clearly shows we are born with this sinful nature, I am glad I listened to other translation that clearly made this known by the English I use today.

I am not boasting over nothing I am pointing you to the word of God.



1 Timothy 1:15
It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all.



Admitting you are sinful no matter how old you are and turning to Jesus to save you will.

I want to train by child who they are, not convince them they are something they are not.

I must first admit that I am a sinner, not give reasons why i am not.

When I worked with children they would never come to Christ until they learned they are a sinners and need Christ to save them.

The meaning of saying no one is good and no one seeks after God, is a message to send us out to seek them, and tell them they are sinners and need Christ, yours I don't see there.

 

[Winman]

Believe what you will Psalms, saying you must sin because you have a sin nature is blaming God for your sin.

You believe man was perfect in the garden right?

What changed man from a perfect being into a sinful being?

You believe it was God's curse don't you?

Nuff said.

 

[psalms109:31]

Believe what you will Psalms, saying you must sin because you have a sin nature is blaming God for your sin.

I must fight the will of my flesh to sin, beat my body

You believe man was perfect in the garden right?

I believe Adam and Eve wasn't God and only God is good

What changed man from a perfect being into a sinful being?

When they worshiped what was created over the Creator, by following their word not His.

You believe it was God's curse don't you?

God is good, man is not we need Him to be good. Sin proves we are not God and not good and need Him. God did not create Himself in us, because there is only one God. We know Him through Jesus Christ who is the only one God, because He is the only one good.

It is a curse if you believe God not creating us as God a curse.

Nuff said.

Galatians 3:10
For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

The Law and the Promise

15 Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,”[Or through the faithfulness of Jesus … 23 Before faith came] meaning one person, who is Christ. 17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. 20 A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but God is one.

 

[DHK]

Believe what you will Psalms, saying you must sin because you have a sin nature is blaming God for your sin.

You believe man was perfect in the garden right?

What changed man from a perfect being into a sinful being?

You believe it was God's curse don't you?

Nuff said.

You blame God for sin, Winman. Your premise seems to be that God created an individual that could sin, and therefore God is to blame. Right?
God knew Adam would sin; why did he create him so?
So this line of "excuses" Adam sinned, Eve sinned, Lucifer sinned, etc., really had nothing to do with Original sin or the depravity of man. It has more to do with the decrees of God, His purposes and plans for mankind. But you turn it on its head and unwittingly accuse him of sin. It doesn't work Winman. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

God knew Adam would sin. He didn't prevent it but he could have.
The result of Adam's sin was a sin nature that has passed on from generation to generation called the depravity of man. All have sinned. All are sinners. It is our nature.

Now you have a different view of this. You say a child has to sin and then becomes a sinner, but no real scriptural proof.
At what age does this happen?
What is the "flesh" that is sinful?

What do you think of this diet?

SUMAN'S SUPER-SIZE DAILY DIET


Morning:
Breakfast No1 at 7am: 20 biscuits and 12 bananas
Breakfast No2 at 9.30am: 2 plates of rice and 5 eggs
Snack: 15 biscuits, 1-2 packets of crisps (whatever is available) and 10 bananas
Lunch at 12pm: 2 plates of rice, 2 bowls of fish and potato curry, 2 omelettes and pickle.
Snack: 10 sweets, 15 biscuits, 10 bananas, 2 packets of crisps
Dinner: 2 plates of rice, 2 bowls of fish curry, potato and tomato chutney

A lot of food right? Is it gluttonous? Sinful? of the flesh?



Now what if that is the diet of a six year old??
Now what do you think? How does a six year old get to that stage of gluttony in her life? How long has this six year old girl been eating to get to this situation--201 pounds at the age of six? "Who hath sinned? this child or her parents?"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-6-scoffs-food-week-feed-entire-village.html






http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=bBOTTqvd0r3Pooab7jrHcU&u=DailyMail

 

[Winman]

I must fight the will of my flesh to sin, beat my body

I don't know if the flesh wills to sin, it simply lusts and desires those things that bring it pleasure.

I believe Adam and Eve wasn't God and only God is good

Then you do not believe God's word, for scripture says they were "very good".

Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

God saw that "every thing he had made" was "very good". This would include Adam and Eve.

This proves a sin nature is not required to sin. It also proves that the fact that we sin does not necessarily mean we have a sin nature.

Isn't that so?

When they worshiped what was created over the Creator, by following their word not His.

Yes, they sinned when they disobeyed God.

God is good, man is not we need Him to be good. Sin proves we are not God and not good and need Him. God did not create Himself in us, because there is only one God. We know Him through Jesus Christ who is the only one God, because He is the only one good.

Scripture says that we are still made in the similitude of God.

Jam 3:9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

How can we be evil if we "are made" after the similitude of God?

Now, I am not denying that we all sin and become evil, that is absolutely true. But this verse says we are made (present tense) after the similitude of God. This would argue we are not born evil.

It is a curse if you believe God not creating us as God a curse.

But what was the curse? Did God say we would henceforth have a wicked sin nature that would compel us to sin? NO, there is not one word to that effect. God said the "ground" would be cursed and bring forth thorns and thistles, and that by the sweat of our face we would eat our bread until we return to the ground. God did not say one word about cursing us to have a sin nature.

Isn't that true?

Galatians 3:10
For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

The Law and the Promise

15 Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,”[Or through the faithfulness of Jesus … 23 Before faith came] meaning one person, who is Christ. 17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. 20 A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but God is one.

OK, I have no idea how you think this scripture proves we are born with a sin nature, maybe you can explain that.

 

[Luke2427]

You are being silly, those ARE the reasons. Why does a thief steal? Because it is easier to steal someone else's hard earned money than it is to go out and work hard to earn it yourself.

You still don't get it.

Why do we choose the bad easy path over the good hard path?

Your answer is, "Because we do."

That is not an answer.

 

[Winman]

You still don't get it.

Why do we choose the bad easy path over the good hard path?

Your answer is, "Because we do."

That is not an answer.

I didn't say that. Show where I said that.

People have reasons for sinning. Why does a person steal? Because it is far easier and quicker than working.

Why do people take drugs? Because it feels good.

It is you that believes a person is compelled to sin by their sin nature. No one has to steal, and no one has to take drugs, people choose to do those things.

Yes, if you take drugs you can become addicted, and then your body compels you to continue. But even an addict can quit if he really wants to, and many people have.

You simply make excuse for sin. It is not your fault, your nature compels you to do it.

Good luck with that story on judgment day.

 

[convicted1]

We sin because we're sinful, not sin to become sinful. That's akin to saying an apple tree becomes an apple tree after the first apple appears. It was an apple tree by nature and therefore, it produces apples.

 

[Luke2427]

I didn't say that. Show where I said that.

People have reasons for sinning. Why does a person steal? Because it is far easier and quicker than working.

Why do people take drugs? Because it feels good.

You still don't get it.

Why do people choose the easy, feel good things when they could choose the hard but right things?

 

[Aaron]

We sin because we're sinful, not sin to become sinful. That's akin to saying an apple tree becomes an apple tree after the first apple appears. It was an apple tree by nature and therefore, it produces apples.

:thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Winman]

You still don't get it.

Why do people choose the easy, feel good things when they could choose the hard but right things?

Pure nonsense and you know it. People like things that are easy and feel good because they are easy and feel good.

Who are you trying to convice? :laugh:

 

[Winman]

We sin because we're sinful, not sin to become sinful. That's akin to saying an apple tree becomes an apple tree after the first apple appears. It was an apple tree by nature and therefore, it produces apples.

Oh yeah, the good tree, corrupt tree story.

Well, for probably the third time, Jesus showed we can determine whether we are a good tree that produces good fruit, or a corrupt tree that produces corrupt fruit.

Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

Now read this real careful Willis, so you won't make this mistake again, Jesus said "either make" which shows we have both option and ability to be a good tree that produces good fruit, "or else make" which again shows both option and ability, ourselves a corrupt tree that produces corrupt fruit.

Now, that may seem strange to you for a tree to determine what kind of tree it is, but that is exactly what Jesus said.

So, you don't have to be a corrupt tree that produces corrupt fruit if you don't want to be. Isn't that nice?

This is one of those verses that has NEVER been preached in a Reformed church. :laugh:

 

[psalms109:31]

Mark 10:18
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

I agree with scripture anything that comes from God is good, but we have been been given a life to ourself and are responsible and we are not God and only God is good.

Only way man can be good they would have to be God.

There is only one God only in Him we can be good.

John 15
New International Version (NIV)
The Vine and the Branches

15 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

 

[Winman]

Mark 10:18
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

I agree with scripture anything that comes from God is good, but we have been been given a life to ourself and are responsible and we are not God and only God is good.

Only way man can be good they would have to be God.

There is only one God only in Him we can be good.

I don't think you understand me, or the scriptures. When Jesus said there is only one person that is good, and that is God, Jesus is speaking of sinless perfection. He means 100% good with no sin whatsoever.

Jesus is not saying everything we do is evil, that is nonsensical. There would be no need for commandments if everything we do is evil. If telling the truth is just as evil as lying then God's commandments are absolutely meaningless.

Jesus said sinners can do good.

Luk 6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

Sinners do good, Jesus himself said so. Now, Jesus is teaching here that it is no big deal to do good to those that do good to you, and it is far greater to do good to those who do not treat you well, nevertheless, it is not wrong to do good to those who do good to you, you SHOULD do good to those who do good to you.

So, understand when the scriptures say, No man doeth good, no, not one, it is speaking of being 100% perfectly good, it is not saying men cannot do individual good works or deeds.

In fact, what did Peter say concerning Cornelius before he was even saved?

Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Cornelius was not saved when Peter said this, Peter had not preached the gospel yet to Cornelius, yet Peter said that Cornelius "worketh righteousness".

Cornelius was able to do true good that God recognized, even before he was saved. So these folks that teach you that unregenerate men cannot do good are teaching pure error.

 

[psalms109:31]

I don't think you understand me, or the scriptures. When Jesus said there is only one person that is good, and that is God, Jesus is speaking of sinless perfection. He means 100% good with no sin whatsoever.

Jesus is not saying everything we do is evil, that is nonsensical. There would be no need for commandments if everything we do is evil. If telling the truth is just as evil as lying then God's commandments are absolutely meaningless.

Jesus said sinners can do good.

Luk 6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

Sinners do good, Jesus himself said so. Now, Jesus is teaching here that it is no big deal to do good to those that do good to you, and it is far greater to do good to those who do not treat you well, nevertheless, it is not wrong to do good to those who do good to you, you SHOULD do good to those who do good to you.

So, understand when the scriptures say, No man doeth good, no, not one, it is speaking of being 100% perfectly good, it is not saying men cannot do individual good works or deeds.

In fact, what did Peter say concerning Cornelius before he was even saved?

Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Cornelius was not saved when Peter said this, Peter had not preached the gospel yet to Cornelius, yet Peter said that Cornelius "worketh righteousness".

Cornelius was able to do true good that God recognized, even before he was saved. So these folks that teach you that unregenerate men cannot do good are teaching pure error.

Doing good a percentage of the time does not mean we are good. I am not one of those in hope that my good out weight by bad no matter what I have a sinful nature from conceptiion.

All are sinners and the wages of sin is death just one and all are simners

 

[Winman]

Doing good a percentage of the time does not mean we are good. I am not one of those in hope that my good out weight by bad no matter what I have a sinful nature from conceptiion.

All are sinners and the wages of sin is death just one and all are simners

I agree with you 100%, doing good a percentage of the time does not qualify as "good" in the scriptures. This is why Jesus said, There is none good, but God.

But Jesus was not saying we cannot do individual good works as some folks falsely teach. When you tell the truth, that is good.

The Bible does not teach we are compelled to always do wrong as Calvinists especially teach. Cornelius was not saved, and he did not have the Holy Spirit, but he did many good works that God himself recognized. He also had faith in God, the scriptures say he "feared God".

Total Inability is completely false doctrine.

 

[psalms109:31]

I agree with you 100%, doing good a percentage of the time does not qualify as "good" in the scriptures. This is why Jesus said, There is none good, but God.

But Jesus was not saying we cannot do individual good works as some folks falsely teach. When you tell the truth, that is good.

The Bible does not teach we are compelled to always do wrong as Calvinists especially teach. Cornelius was not saved, and he did not have the Holy Spirit, but he did many good works that God himself recognized. He also had faith in God, the scriptures say he "feared God".

Total Inability is completely false doctrine.

If our motive for doing good is not for the sake of God but for our selfish motive for a pat on the back by men it is no good you already received your reward.

Only what we do for the sake of God working in Him is good every other good is nothing when we do it apart from Christ.

 

[Winman]

If our motive for doing good is not for the sake of God but for our selfish motive for a pat on the back by men it is no good you already received your reward.

Only what we do for the sake of God working in Him is good every other good is nothing when we do it apart from Christ.

So, if somebody asks you the time and you look at your watch and tell him, that is a sin?

That is a very extreme view.

 

[psalms109:31]

Matthew 6:2
“So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.

Matthew 6:5
[ Prayer ] “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.

Matthew 6:16
[ Fasting ] “When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.

John 15:
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.