I heard about another truck driver accident where he fell asleep. Be careful on the road Icon.
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Why is lordship Salvation so hard for many to understand?
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I heard about another truck driver accident where he fell asleep. Be careful on the road Icon.
Still a very poor name for that idea. I think the name is descriptive of the idea that spawned it, that the Lord saves them that obey—not that they whom the Lord saves will obey.
I can rest, because my Lord has accomplished all my work, and He will lead me into the paths of righteousness. He created me a sheep. I didn't make myself one.
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Fortunately, that's not how Christ works. It isn't surprising to me, however, you would think He does.
The actual teaching is that a saved saint will endure to the end, that he will keep on and finish running his race, but it is NOT saying that he will not at times fall over, get off his lane, but that he will recover from his stumbling and then keep pressing on...
Hvae you ALWAYS been faithful to the Lord in mind and actions since being saved?
yes!
For even after being saved, we still are maturing in Jesus, and the truth is that while here in our flesh, no sinless perfection, but can and will become more into his image!
Still seems that some LS advocates preach for something akin to Wesley "sinless perfection"
Guess that was why peter got rejected by jesus, wait, he stayed his Apostle, right?
Even AFTER denying the Lord?
You might think different if you read the letters to the seven churches Dconn.....they were to repent...and overcome....or be spewed out of His mouth. ..Rev 3:16_18.......looks exactly how Jesus works Dconn...as it is Him speaking He said it......pretty plain talking.....no psycho babble. .lol.
It isn't surprising to me however......15 alleged Pastor s in your church and you still miss this.
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Well, there you go, Lordship Salvationists view salvation like a load that must be delivered. You are not saved until you actually get there.
This is not what the Bible teaches, the Bible teaches we are sons of God NOW.
1 Jhn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
A true Christian cannot fall away in unbelief, as he is joined to the Holy Spirit and cannot sin continuously.
1 Jhn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Jesus said the person who has believed is passed (past-tense) from death to life and shall not (future tense) come into condemnation.
Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
I wonder how far it is to heaven? Hope that truck makes it Icon.
Yeah, delivering a load is real complex Icon.
By the way, I drove a truck for a few years when I was young. Not a big 18 wheeler like you, but a box truck. I used to deliver all over Florida. So, I am not putting truck driving down, it is a vital occupation to our economy and country.
But it is not complex.
Yeah, delivering a load is real complex Icon.
By the way, I drove a truck for a few years when I was young. Not a big 18 wheeler like you, but a box truck. I used to deliver all over Florida. So, I am not putting truck driving down, it is a vital occupation to our economy and country.
But it is not complex.
Not complex at all...but like the Christian life.....it takes perseverance.
It's work, that's why you get paid to do it.
Lordship Salvation is just a form of works salvation. You must endure, you must persevere, you must keep driving until you get there. That is work.
I am not working, I am resting and depending on Jesus's perfect faithfulness to save me as he promised to do if I would trust him.
I am waiting for the delivery, not driving like you.
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
What arrogance to assume I haven't. This is why discussion with you is virtually useless. Your arrogance puts off anyone who might actually try to engage you, as you refuse to see anyone as your equal.
You do not have a corner on biblical knowledge, Icon. In fact, in many areas it is sadly lacking, mainly because of those huge blinders you wear.
Of course there is endurance and perseverance with salvation (that's biblical). The difference is that you, not holding to LS, denounce it on your terms while those (or many) holding to LS view endurance and perseverance as a work of God. Personally, I do not know that the separation is so cut and dry (I do nothing but sit on my rear and God somehow produces fruit out of my laziness vs. I have to work and strive to remain saved).
What matters is what you are trusting in or upon to save you.
I am trusting or relying on Jesus alone to save me. I came to him in my heart and called on him to save me like the publican did in Luke 18. Now I am depending on him to keep his promise to me that he will not cast me out, and that if I called on him I would be saved.
Jhn 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
I would not claim to be a good or obedient Christian at all. Oh, I would like to be sinless, but the truth is, I have sinned literally thousands of times since I called on Jesus to save me 50 years ago.
Nevertheless, I trust and believe Jesus will save me just as he promised. I am depending on his faithfulness to keep his promise, not my faithfulness to him. If I have to depend on my faithfulness, I am a goner for sure.
Lordship Salvation is the opposite, they believe they must perform to be saved. They must endure or persevere. They are depending on their own behavior. If they do not endure they will be lost. Of course, they have no idea how obedient they must be to prove they are saved, or how disobedient one must be to prove they are lost. It is nothing but slavery and fear.
If you want to persevere, that is your choice. But I say "jump" and let Jesus catch you.
Trust me, it is far easier to put it all in Jesus's hands and depend on him.
I agree. I have found LS to be poorly defined. Many, like me, define it as belief and descriptive of the Christian's status in Christ. If I am saved then Jesus is my Lord and Savior. If He is not my Lord and Savior then I am not saved. I do understand the objection to LS being cleaning up your life, working to live in accord to God's word, and fitting yourself for the kingdom in order to be saved. I have not heard, however, LS as being defined that way except from those who oppose the concept. I have not heard a LS advocate (although there may be many out there) defining LS as you have in order to demonstrate it a false and work based salvation. Personally, I find it an odd term because we do not "make" Him Lord to be saved...He is our Lord if we are saved....and our relationship "in Christ" is IMHO an obvious status of salvation. LS, then, is working backwards (similar to Scriptures describing those saved as striving, enduring and persevering).
Thank you for your honesty.
Go back, and you will see LS folks NEVER define it. The only description I have heard is that if Jesus is not Lord of all, then he is not Lord at all. That sounds like a pretty high mountain to climb if you ask me. If I had to apply that standard to my life, I believe I would come away very fearful that I am not saved.
I mean, who can honestly say Jesus is Lord of ALL? All is a lot, all is 100%.
I would rather trust in Jesus thank you.
For me there is a big difference between Jesus being the Lord of all of me and my perfect submission of all I am to Him. Even those area where I struggle...even there...Christ is Lord. My disobedience does not change that, although I believe the conviction that follows is a result of His Lordship in my life. I do not think we will/can live sinless lives, but my struggles do not nullify my status in Christ or His status as Lord.
Acts 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all.)
The Scriptures state that Christ is Lord of all.
There is nothing that I can do to change that fact.
I can't make him Lord of all; He already is.
If I sin, He is still Lord of all. There is nothing that I can do that is going to dethrone Christ. If I live a sinful life Christ is not going to fall off his throne. To think as much is absurd. He is Lord no matter what I do. I can't "make" Him Lord. This LS doctrine is new and novel. And IMO it is erroneous.
Again, "all" is 100%, and I don't know of anybody, including born again Christians who have made Jesus 100% Lord, at least not 100% of the time. We all knowingly and willingly sin at times. In those instances we are not fully submitting to Jesus as Lord.
And again, this is the only description you will get from these folks. They can't even define it themselves, yet they demand that we obey this mysterious doctrine.
No, it comes down to this, you are either depending on Jesus to save you, or you are trusting or depending on yourself. This is exactly how Jesus described the lost Pharisee in Luke 18;
Luk 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Did the Pharisee believe in God? YES. Was the Pharisee obedient to the laws of God? YES.
We put down the Pharisees today, but they were in fact very devout men who lived very holy lives. Paul said of himself as a Pharisee that touching the righteousness which is in the law he was "blameless", yet he was as lost as a turkey on Thanksgiving.
Phi 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
If salvation is believing in God and being obedient to his laws as Lordship Salvation teaches, then Paul should have been saved as a Pharisee, but he was lost.
No, we see in the story of the publican what "believing in Jesus" means. It is to cast yourself completely on Jesus and depend upon his mercy to save you. This is what lots of folks call "Easy Believism". Folks may not like it, but all the publican did was pray sincerely to God and ask for mercy, and he was saved according to Jesus himself.
So, saving faith is not believing in God and being obedient. That is trusting in one's self for salvation.
True saving faith is confessing we are a lost sinner who cannot save ourselves or merit life in any way, and casting ourselves completely and fully on Jesus to save us as the publican did. And he was saved.
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