Why man hates the Gospel Truth of Election !

[Van]

Still boasting about what man does !

Yet another deflection, devoid of anything helpful. Simply an effort to insult another person.

1) People make decisions based on what they think is best. If a person was raised in a Christian home, so they learned of the love and kindness of God, and the snares of the devil, they are more likely to choose to love Jesus with all their heart. Thus, as ambassadors, we are not only to plant, but also to cultivate, to water, and to walk the talk so we lead others to Christ as best we can.

2) Note the repeat of the claim non-Cal's do not believe in Election. Utter nonsense, we do not believe in Unconditional Election. Calvinists just repeat their mantra.

3) Who makes the difference in being saved or lost? Do non-Cal's say we saved ourselves? Yes some do, but others do not. I believe God, when He accepts our worthless filthy rag faith, and credits it as righteousness or not, makes the actual difference in being saved or not. Anyone can believe till the cows come home, if God does not credit it as righteousness, no salvation occurs. Thus we boast in the Lord and not in ourselves.

You have got to love them folks. They copy and paste arguments, but can offer nothing but personal attacks to biblically based corrections.

Only a hyper partisan would say coming to a worthless filthy rag faith meriting nothing is boasting we save ourselves, even when we acknowledge such faith does not save or merit salvation. Go figure

 

[savedbymercy]

Yet another deflection, devoid of anything helpful. Simply an effort to insult another person.

1) People make decisions based on what they think is best. If a person was raised in a Christian home, so they learned of the love and kindness of God, and the snares of the devil, they are more likely to choose to love Jesus with all their heart. Thus, as ambassadors, we are not only to plant, but also to cultivate, to water, and to walk the talk so we lead others to Christ as best we can.

2) Note the repeat of the claim non-Cal's do not believe in Election. Utter nonsense, we do not believe in Unconditional Election. Calvinists just repeat their mantra.

3) Who makes the difference in being saved or lost? Do non-Cal's say we saved ourselves? Yes some do, but others do not. I believe God, when He accepts our worthless filthy rag faith, and credits it as righteousness or not, makes the actual difference in being saved or not. Anyone can believe till the cows come home, if God does not credit it as righteousness, no salvation occurs. Thus we boast in the Lord and not in ourselves.

You have got to love them folks. They copy and paste arguments, but can offer nothing but personal attacks to biblically based corrections.

Only a hyper partisan would say coming to a worthless filthy rag faith meriting nothing is boasting we save ourselves, even when we acknowledge such faith does not save or merit salvation. Go figure

You want to hold on to that occasion to boast at all cost !

 

[Jerome]

S-BM, your writing and attitude really remind me of several 'other' board members, for instance, 'Beloved57':wavey:

http://www.baptistboard.com/member.php?u=8145

 

[DHK]

The point is that you don't decide to be born or born again. Someone else decided on that. You are correcting Jesus, not me, when you do what you do to his metaphor. To be born, you don't take action, the only action needed for you to be born, either time, was someone else's.

You misunderstand what Jesus was talking about and are stretching the analogy too far. Jesus said to Nidocemus (and he said three times). You must be born again. As in, Nicodemus this is something you must do.
Nicodemus was puzzled. He had your attitude. He related it to physical birth.

Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

That wasn't the analogy, and that is not what Jesus had in mind. He corrected Nicodemus.
The first thing that Jesus tells him is:

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God!
--He needs to born of water and the Spirit.
--Most agree that the Spirit is the Holy Spirit.
But what does the water refer to?
First, what does water do? What use does it commonly have? It is a cleansing agent. They were standing near the Temple and could probably see the ceremonial cleansings that the Jews went through before they entered the Temple.
We go back a few verses and see that the time period was the time of the Passover, and indeed Christ was in Jerusalem:
Joh 2:23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, during the feast, many believed on his name, beholding his signs which he did.

Nicodemus saw those cleansing.
His mind would wander back to such Scripture as Psalm 119:9
Psa 119:9 Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.
--When Jesus said "water" what does water refer to? It refers to the Word of God, for it is the Word of God that cleanses as Psalm 119:9 refers to.

Later, Jesus himself would emphasize this point:
Joh 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
--We are cleansed by the Word.

And then James:
Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
--The word "begat" has to do with "born" or born again. He brought us forth with the Word of God. It clearly connects the Word to the new birth here.

And even more clearly in 1Peter.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
--Born again by the Word of God.
--Nothing could be any clearer than that.

Now back to John 3:5. There are two and only two agents by which a person can be born again. One is water (the word) and the other is the Spirit of God.
God uses the Holy Spirit as he works through His Word to bring a person to Christ. The new birth is effect through the Word of God. It is necessary to appropriate by faith. That regenerative change that happens is called the new birth or being born again. It happens at salvation or when a person is justified. This is a one-time event.
It is not such a mysterious, mystical and esoteric event as the Calvinists describe it to be.

Jesus goes on to clarify it a bit further.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
--Nicodemus you were born once, as every man is born--of the flesh.
Now you must be born a second time: of the Spirit. That takes belief or faith.

Then after a rebuke he gives him an OT illustration and application:
Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
--We are saved by faith. God gave his son to be an atoning sacrifice for our sins. We must accept that sacrifice by faith. Believe on him and you will have eternal life. That is the conclusion to the new birth.

 

[The Archangel]

You misunderstand what Jesus was talking about and are stretching the analogy too far. Jesus said to Nidocemus (and he said three times). You must be born again. As in, Nicodemus this is something you must do.

This is absolutely wrong. In the Greek, "born again" is not an imperative. In fact, the verb is passive, which--by definition--means the subject is not and cannot be acting upon himself. By definition the passive verb is something done to you, not by you.

The Archangel

 

[convicted1]

This is absolutely wrong. In the Greek, "born again" is not an imperative. In fact, the verb is passive, which--by definition--means the subject is not and cannot be acting upon himself. By definition the passive verb is something done to you, not by you.

The Archangel

Also, 'born again' is 'born from above'. Ye must be born from above is the better translation. None can be 'born from above' by their own doing...

 

[DHK]

This is absolutely wrong. In the Greek, "born again" is not an imperative. In fact, the verb is passive, which--by definition--means the subject is not and cannot be acting upon himself. By definition the passive verb is something done to you, not by you.

The Archangel

Yes. God changes me WHEN I believe on Him
You cannot chuck 1Pet.1:23 out of your Bible.

 

[convicted1]

John 3:3...

--Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;'(YLT)

 

[The Archangel]

Yes. God changes me WHEN I believe on Him
You cannot chuck 1Pet.1:23 out of your Bible.

...he said to avoid his own error which was pointed out to him......

The Archangel

 

[DHK]

Also, 'born again' is 'born from above'. Ye must be born from above is the better translation. None can be 'born from above' by their own doing...

I think we all agree that salvation is all of God. Who said anything about "your own doing." That is simple ignorance of salvation.
It is a misunderstanding of "faith." Romans 4:1-5 teaches that faith is not a work. So does Eph.2:8,9 as well as many other passages. Salvation is to be received as a gift. It is not to be worked for. Why are these concepts so difficult to grasp.
Since when did "Refomers," so-called, stop believing in sola fide?

 

[convicted1]

--from above, from a higher place
--of things which come from heaven or God
--from the first, from the beginning, from the very first
--anew, over again

Anothen....greek word used for 'again' in John 3:3...

 

[The Archangel]

Yes. God changes me WHEN I believe on Him
You cannot chuck 1Pet.1:23 out of your Bible.

And... what exactly do you mean by this, other than an attempt to obfuscate.

Where does 1 Peter 1:23 say anything about "God changes me when I believe on him?" Do you not know, have you not heard that "born again" in 1 Peter 1:23 is also passive, meaning that something had been done to Peter's recipients, not done by them?

The Archangel

 

[DHK]

--from above, from a higher place
--of things which come from heaven or God
--from the first, from the beginning, from the very first
--anew, over again

Anothen....greek word used for 'again' in John 3:3...

And so?????

 

[DHK]

And... what exactly do you mean by this, other than an attempt to obfuscate.

Where does 1 Peter 1:23 say anything about "God changes me when I believe on him?" Do you not know, have you not heard that "born again" in 1 Peter 1:23 is also passive, meaning that something had been done to Peter's recipients, not done by them?

The Archangel

The new birth takes place by the Word of God. That is what it says.
The Word comes first. The reception and understanding of the Word must come second. Then the new birth can take place. It must be in that order.

 

[convicted1]

You stated this DHK...

As in, Nicodemus this is something you must do.

If it's something we must do, then it's no longer grace. God first gives the new birth, which brings faith, life, repentance. After the new birth...born from above...we can then do our part to believe upon the name of Christ...

 

[convicted1]

And so?????

You had zero to do with your natural birth...

You had zero to do with your Spiritual birth...

 

[The Archangel]

The new birth takes place by the Word of God. That is what it says.
The Word comes first. The reception and understanding of the Word must come second. Then the new birth can take place. It must be in that order.

Well, no, it doesn't say that at all. But, thank you for playing....

The Archangel

 

[robustheologian]

We don't have the faith to come to Christ on our own. (John 6:44) Faith is accepting the gospel of Jesus Christ. Yet, no one can even understand the gospel (2 Cor. 2:14) unless it has been given to them to believe. (Phil. 1:29).

I think to understand how regeneration works we need to understand exactly what Paul meant by "dead in trespasses" and what it means to be "made alive". If faith is the means to obtain salvation (Eph. 2:8-9) how can someone "dead" do any spiritual good...such as have faith? We can't even have faith unless it is given. (1 Cor. 4:7) Since we are spiritually dead we must be born again. (John 3:6-7)

 

[DHK]

Well, no, it doesn't say that at all. But, thank you for playing....

The Archangel

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

(ASV) having been begotten again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, through the word of God, which liveth and abideth.

(Darby) being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the living and abiding word of God.

(DRB) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but incorruptible, by the word of God who liveth and remaineth for ever.

(EMTV) having been born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever.

(ESV) since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;

(Geneva) Being borne anewe, not of mortall seede, but of immortall, by the woorde of God, who liueth and endureth for euer.

(LITV) being regenerated, not by corruptible seed, but incorruptible, through the living Word of God, and remaining forever.

(MKJV) having been born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, through the living Word of God, and abiding forever.

(YLT) being begotten again, not out of seed corruptible, but incorruptible, through a word of God--living and remaining--to the age;

 

[convicted1]

DHK,

being begotten again, not out of seed corruptible, but incorruptible, through a word of God -- living and remaining -- to the age;(1 Peter 1:23 YLT)

Say you preach the most Christ-exhalting you've ever been blessed to preach in front of 75 lost people. Three come forth proclaiming that Christ saved them. What caused them to be born again via you message? Was it:

--They weren't as bad a sinner as the others?
--Their hearts weren't as hard as the others?
--Were they smarter and understood the message better?
--The others were deaf and no translator was there?