Why man hates the Gospel Truth of Election !

[DHK]

So Lazarus could come forth all by himself?

Jesus called out to him and he came out...

When God speaks, those He speak to, will respond.

The typical non sequitor and allegorical type answer.
The raising of Lazarus was one of the greatest miracles Jesus did to demonstrate to all his deity.

 

[DHK]

DHK

You get it wrong over and over. You are exposed over and over. Do you take the help offered you, NO you refuse it.

We are born again by the Word of God. Period.
Certainly it is a divine act of God.
Yes the Holy Spirit is involved. I won't deny any of that.

But neither the Greek, Latin, Hebrew, or any other language of the world, can dismiss the fact that the Word of God is needed, in fact absolutely necessary in the new birth. Deny that and you have denied the teaching in the above verse. You can't use the Greek to rip out more than 75% of the verse out of the Bible.
It is through the Word.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word.
The Word is the gospel.
One must hear the gospel, understand the gospel, have faith in the gospel, and believe the gospel. Then and only then can he be born again/saved. The Holy Spirit does not work apart from his Word. Study the New Birth. He does not work apart from His Word. Until you understand that concept you will never understand the new birth.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
--"the washing of regeneration."
Why "washing"? It is the word of God that washes and cleanses.
What about the phrase "renewing of the Holy Spirit"? How does the Holy Spirit accomplish that?
He uses the Word of God.
Regeneration doesn't happen apart from the Word of God. It will not; it cannot.

 

[savedbymercy]

We are born again by the Word of God. Period.
Certainly it is a divine act of God.
Yes the Holy Spirit is involved. I won't deny any of that.

But neither the Greek, Latin, Hebrew, or any other language of the world, can dismiss the fact that the Word of God is needed, in fact absolutely necessary in the new birth. Deny that and you have denied the teaching in the above verse. You can't use the Greek to rip out more than 75% of the verse out of the Bible.
It is through the Word.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word.
The Word is the gospel.
One must hear the gospel, understand the gospel, have faith in the gospel, and believe the gospel. Then and only then can he be born again/saved. The Holy Spirit does not work apart from his Word. Study the New Birth. He does not work apart from His Word. Until you understand that concept you will never understand the new birth.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
--"the washing of regeneration."
Why "washing"? It is the word of God that washes and cleanses.
What about the phrase "renewing of the Holy Spirit"? How does the Holy Spirit accomplish that?
He uses the Word of God.
Regeneration doesn't happen apart from the Word of God. It will not; it cannot.

A Person cannot hear nor believe until after they born again ! Only those of God hears God's Words Jn 8:43,47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 

[convicted1]

The typical non sequitor and allegorical type answer.
The raising of Lazarus was one of the greatest miracles Jesus did to demonstrate to all his deity.

It's not a non-sequitor...

We were incapsulated, entombed in sin. Much like Lazarus in the earthly tomb dead, we were in a spiritual tomb dead. Nothing we could do could cause us to come forth of our own volition. We had no ability to change our state. When God called unto us, we heard. He gave us ears to hear with. Not everyone will have those ears. When Jesus called, he could do nothing else but come forth. When He calls out to us we can do nothing else but come to Him. Without Me, ye can do nothing...

 

[PreachTony]

A Person cannot hear nor believe until after they born again ! Only those of God hears God's Words Jn 8:43,47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Hyper-Calvinism, to the rescue. Seriously, SBM, the doctrines you hold seem to run counter to large swaths of scripture we find in the Bible.

The Bible tells us we are saved by grace through faith, and that faith comes by hearing the word of God, but you say we only hear the Word of God because we are saved. That's a case of scripture and doctrine being in contention.

Using the same verse, the Bible tells us we are saved by grace through faith, and not of works, yet you argue that faith is a work. Another point of contention between your doctrine and the scripture.

 

[savedbymercy]

We are born again by the Word of God. Period.
Certainly it is a divine act of God.
Yes the Holy Spirit is involved. I won't deny any of that.

But neither the Greek, Latin, Hebrew, or any other language of the world, can dismiss the fact that the Word of God is needed, in fact absolutely necessary in the new birth. Deny that and you have denied the teaching in the above verse. You can't use the Greek to rip out more than 75% of the verse out of the Bible.
It is through the Word.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word.
The Word is the gospel.
One must hear the gospel, understand the gospel, have faith in the gospel, and believe the gospel. Then and only then can he be born again/saved. The Holy Spirit does not work apart from his Word. Study the New Birth. He does not work apart from His Word. Until you understand that concept you will never understand the new birth.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
--"the washing of regeneration."
Why "washing"? It is the word of God that washes and cleanses.
What about the phrase "renewing of the Holy Spirit"? How does the Holy Spirit accomplish that?
He uses the Word of God.
Regeneration doesn't happen apart from the Word of God. It will not; it cannot.

But one cannot hear the Word of God unless they are of God ! Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 

[InTheLight]

People, I implore you--if you're not going to use the board's Ignore feature, use your brain's ignore feature. When responding to a particular hyper-Calvinist you might as well be yelling in outer space.

 

[DHK]

But one cannot hear the Word of God unless they are of God ! Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Let's put your twisting of the scripture to the test:

Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
--Is Satan "of God"? did he hear "God's words"?

Genesis 4:9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
--Was Cain of God? Did he hear God's words?

Genesis 20:3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife.
4 But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?
--Was Abimilech, the king of Gerar, "of God"? Did he hear God's words?

You take a verse here out of context, and a verse there and build a false doctrine on it.

 

[convicted1]

Let's put your twisting of the scripture to the test:

Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
--Is Satan "of God"? did he hear "God's words"?

Genesis 4:9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
--Was Cain of God? Did he hear God's words?

Genesis 20:3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife.
4 But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?
--Was Abimilech, the king of Gerar, "of God"? Did he hear God's words?

You take a verse here out of context, and a verse there and build a false doctrine on it.

You've been thumped SBM...


BTW, I told you the same thing DHK, that God has spoken to the unregenerate...

 

[DHK]

It's not a non-sequitor...

We were incapsulated, entombed in sin. Much like Lazarus in the earthly tomb dead, we were in a spiritual tomb dead. Nothing we could do could cause us to come forth of our own volition. We had no ability to change our state. When God called unto us, we heard. He gave us ears to hear with. Not everyone will have those ears. When Jesus called, he could do nothing else but come forth. When He calls out to us we can do nothing else but come to Him. Without Me, ye can do nothing...

It is not "much like Lazarus" at all. That is the allegorization part that takes it over the wall. Being born again does not mean like a corpse, lifeless, etc.
If it did you wouldn't be able to do anything. But you do have life. Your brain does work. You do have a spirit. In this life your spirit (unsaved) can communicate with Satan if you so desire it to. It does communicate. It is active. There is a spiritual side to you, mostly selfish, humanistic, egotistical, etc., but there is still a spiritual aspect to you because you are made in the image of God.
The spirit is not dead--as in a corpse. Wrong definition.
The spirit is dead--meaning separated from God. Death means separation!

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
It simply means that you were once separated from God by your sins.
Sin always separates one from God.

Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

The sinner needs to be reconciled to God. His spirit is dead or inoperable. It is not that it is non-existent, or as a corpse without life. It is inoperable. It needs to be reconciled to God.

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
--This is the work that God has given us to do.

2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
--What is our prayer--that they be reconciled to God.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
--The greatest message in the Bible is here: Christ became sin for us that we might be made righteous in Him. That comes through faith. Reconciliation comes through faith.

 

[DHK]

You've been thumped SBM...


BTW, I told you the same thing DHK, that God has spoken to the unregenerate...

He speaks through his word. Do we agree on that?

 

[convicted1]

Death=seperation? Correct. There's a GREAT BIG WALL of sin that keeps sinners from God. We were dead in trespasses and sin, seperated from God by our sins. Nothing we can do can remove that GREAT BIG WALL of sin. Only God could remove it.

We were spiritually dead in our sins. Incapsulated by our sins, entombed in them, with no ability, no desire to come to Him. When God draws us, we will come.

 

[convicted1]

He speaks through his word. Do we agree on that?

Yes. He doesn't speak audibly to us now.

 

[convicted1]

It is not "much like Lazarus" at all. That is the allegorization part that takes it over the wall. Being born again does not mean like a corpse, lifeless, etc.
If it did you wouldn't be able to do anything. But you do have life. Your brain does work. You do have a spirit. In this life your spirit (unsaved) can communicate with Satan if you so desire it to. It does communicate. It is active. There is a spiritual side to you, mostly selfish, humanistic, egotistical, etc., but there is still a spiritual aspect to you because you are made in the image of God.
The spirit is not dead--as in a corpse. Wrong definition.
The spirit is dead--meaning separated from God. Death means separation!

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
It simply means that you were once separated from God by your sins.
Sin always separates one from God.

Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

The sinner needs to be reconciled to God. His spirit is dead or inoperable. It is not that it is non-existent, or as a corpse without life. It is inoperable. It needs to be reconciled to God.

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
--This is the work that God has given us to do.

2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
--What is our prayer--that they be reconciled to God.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
--The greatest message in the Bible is here: Christ became sin for us that we might be made righteous in Him. That comes through faith. Reconciliation comes through faith.

The bible is full if allegories that display natural events as Spiritual truths. Jesus even stated that to Nicodemus.

--Joseph is an allegory of Christ...
--Aaron is an allegory of Christ being our High Priest...
--The rock in the valley of Sin(Numbers 20) was an allegory of Christ and the living water He gives...
--The lamb or goat in Exodus 12 was an allegory of Christ being our atonement...
--The Scapegoat in Leviticus 16 was an allegory if Christ taking our sins(church) away...
--In John 6, Jesus used the manna that the Jews ate as an allegory of Himself...

 

[InTheLight]

The bible is full if allegories that display natural events as Spiritual truths. Jesus even stated that to Nicodemus.

--Joseph is an allegory of Christ...
--Aaron is an allegory of Christ being our High Priest...
--The rock in the valley of Sin(Numbers 20) was an allegory of Christ and the living water He gives...
--The lamb or goat in Exodus 12 was an allegory of Christ being our atonement...
--The Scapegoat in Leviticus 16 was an allegory if Christ taking our sins(church) away...
--In John 6, Jesus used the manna that the Jews ate as an allegory of Himself...

Too bad dead Lazarus is not an allegory of the spiritual awareness of humans.

 

[DHK]

The bible is full if allegories that display natural events as Spiritual truths. Jesus even stated that to Nicodemus.

--Joseph is an allegory of Christ...

When all is said and done and scripture is studied out carefully, Joseph is said to be "a type of Christ."

--Aaron is an allegory of Christ being our High Priest...
--The rock in the valley of Sin(Numbers 20) was an allegory of Christ and the living water He gives...

Jesus said: "I am that living water." That is a metaphor.

--The lamb or goat in Exodus 12 was an allegory of Christ being our atonement...

John said: "Behold the Lamb of God..."
He used it as a metaphor. In the OT it was a type.

--The Scapegoat in Leviticus 16 was an allegory if Christ taking our sins(church) away...
--In John 6, Jesus used the manna that the Jews ate as an allegory of Himself...

Jesus said: "I am that bread," another metaphor.

It is sad when one doesn't recognize figures of speech for what they are, and simply want to spiritualize the entire Word of God, a type of interpretation originating with Origen.

 

[savedbymercy]

Too bad dead Lazarus is not an allegory of the spiritual awareness of humans.

Says who ? You have a scripture for that ?

 

[savedbymercy]

Let's put your twisting of the scripture to the test:

Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
--Is Satan "of God"? did he hear "God's words"?

Genesis 4:9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
--Was Cain of God? Did he hear God's words?

Genesis 20:3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife.
4 But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?
--Was Abimilech, the king of Gerar, "of God"? Did he hear God's words?

You take a verse here out of context, and a verse there and build a false doctrine on it.

There is no test to put it through, its a stated fact, One must be of God to hear God's Words Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Without being of God, we cannot Hear/ understand God's Word Jn 8:43

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

I have showed once before that the word cannot means no ability to hear !

 

[convicted1]

I posted this earlier...

DHK,

being begotten again, not out of seed corruptible, but incorruptible, through a word of God -- living and remaining -- to the age;(1 Peter 1:23 YLT)

Say you preach the most Christ-exhalting you've ever been blessed to preach in front of 75 lost people. Three come forth proclaiming that Christ saved them. What caused them to be born again via you message? Was it:

--They weren't as bad a sinner as the others?
--Their hearts weren't as hard as the others?
--Were they smarter and understood the message better?
--The others were deaf and no translator was there?

 

[convicted1]

When all is said and done and scripture is studied out carefully, Joseph is said to be "a type of Christ."

Jesus said: "I am that living water." That is a metaphor.

John said: "Behold the Lamb of God..."
He used it as a metaphor. In the OT it was a type.

Jesus said: "I am that bread," another metaphor.

It is sad when one doesn't recognize figures of speech for what they are, and simply want to spiritualize the entire Word of God, a type of interpretation originating with Origen.

I don't spiritualize the whole word. But metaphors, allegories, types display Spiritual truths..