Why The RCC Is A Cult

[OldRegular]

OldRegular- Extreme Unction is a true sacrament instituted by Christ and proclaimed by St. James 1ST. Century

Scripture please!

 

[OldRegular]

OldRegular-Next your priest statement- see Heb.5:1

That is reference to the priests of the Old Testament!

Exaltation of Mary- Book of Luke 1st Century

Nonsense! Luke reported:

Luke 1:26-28
26. And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27. To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary.
28. And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Highly favored and blessed among women does not justify the following effort to promote Mary to co-redeemer!

THE VIRGIN MARY AS CO-REDEMPTRIX, MEDIATRIX AND ADVOCATE

Current status of Mary:

From: http://www.religioustolerance.org/mary_cor.htm

Although the virgin Mary is rarely mentioned in the Bible, and although Protestant churches consider her to be a relatively minor biblical character, the Roman Catholic Church has long assigned her an elevated status.

The Roman Catholic Church has historically taught two basic dogmas about Mary:

1. Mary is the Mother of God.

2. Perpetual Virginity: Mary was a virgin when Yeshua (Jesus) was conceived; this state continued throughout her life.
Two additional dogmas about Mary were infallibly proclaimed by two popes during the 19th and 20th centuries:

3. Immaculate Conception: Pope Pius IX proclaimed the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Mary on 1854-DEC-8. Many Roman Catholics believe that this refers to Jesus' conception circa 5 to 7 BCE. In fact, it means that Mary herself was conceived free of sin before her birth circa 20 BCE.

4. Assumption of Mary: Pope Pius XII, in his Munificentissimus Deus (1950-NOV-1), defined that Mary, "after the completion of her earthly life was assumed body and soul into the glory of Heaven." That is, she was "taken up body and soul into heaven," at the time of her death. She is there "exalted as Queen of the Universe." 1
In addition, various popes and church councils have referred to Mary as co-redemptrix, mediatrix, and advocate:
In ancient times:
St. Antonius (circa 250 - 350): "All graces that have ever been bestowed on men, all came through Mary."

St. Bernard (1090 - 1153): "[Mary is called] the gate of heaven, because no one can enter that blessed kingdom without passing through her."

St. Bonaventure (1221 - 1274): "As the moon, which stands between the sun and the earth, transmits to this latter whatever it receives from the former, so does Mary pour out upon us who are in this world the heavenly graces that she receives from the divine sun of justice." 1
1750: Alphonsus Mary de Liguori, canonized as Saint Alphonsus in 1839, wrote a book "The Glories of Mary." It continues to be published today, under various church imprimaturs. Various chapters in the book are titled: "Mary our Help," "Mary our Mediatress," "Mary our Advocate," etc. 1

1935: Pope Pius XI gave the title co-redemptrix to Mary during a radio broadcast. 1

1964-NOV-21: The Chapter 8 of the Dogmatic Constitution of the Church, passed by the Vatican Council II, and "Solemnly promulgated by Holiness Pope Paul VI" states, in part:

"Rightly, therefore, the Fathers see Mary not merely as passively engaged by God, but as freely cooperating in the work of man’s salvation through faith and obedience. For as St. Irenaeus says, she being obedient, became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race. Hence not a few of the early Fathers gladly assert with him in their preaching ...'death through Eve, life through Mary.' This union of the mother with the son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ’s virginal conception up to his death" 2

"Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation. By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and difficulties, until they are led into their blessed home. Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress and Mediatrix." 3

"...the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix. This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator."

"For no creature could ever be counted as equal with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer. Just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by the ministers and by the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is really communicated in different ways to His creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source." (Footnotes deleted) 7
1985: Pope John Paul II recognized Mary as co-redemptrix" during a speech in Guayaquil, Ecuador. He said, in part, "Having suffered for the Church, Mary deserved to become the Mother of all the disciples of her Son, the Mother of their unity...In fact Mary’s role as Co-redemptrix did not cease with the glorification of her Son." 4

1987-MAR-25: In his encyclical Redemptoris Mater, Pope John Paul II "referred to Mary as 'Mediatrix' three times, and as 'Advocate' twice." 1

1997-APR-9: During an audience Pope John-Paul II referred to the role of Mary during the crucifixion of Jesus: "Mary … co-operated during the event itself and in the role of mother; thus her co-operation embraces the whole of Christ’s saving work. She alone was associated in this way with the redemptive sacrifice that merited the salvation of all mankind. In union with Christ and in submission to him, she collaborated in obtaining the grace of salvation for all humanity...In God’s plan, Mary is the ‘woman’ (cf. John 2:4; John 19:26), the New Eve, united to the New Adam in restoring humanity to its original dignity. Her cooperation with her Son continues for all time in the universal motherhood which she enjoys in the order of grace. Trusting in this maternal cooperation, let us turn to Mary, imploring her help in all our needs." 1


Although Mary has been referred to on numerous occasions as co-redemptrix, mediatrix, and advocate, none have the force of an infallible papal declaration.


Petition drive to promote an infallible statement:

Professor Mark Miravalle of Franciscan University in Steubenville, OH, initiated a formal petition drive in 1993 during a Marian conference at that university. It asks the Pope to make infallible statement that would officially elevate Mary, the mother of Jesus, to the status of co-redeemer. More than six million signatures from 148 countries have reached the Vatican as of the end of the year 2000, asking that Pope John Paul II infallibly declare a new dogma: "That the Virgin Mary is a co-redeemer with Jesus and co-operates fully with her son in the redemption of humanity." If this were done, "she would be a vastly more powerful figure, something close to the fourth member of the Holy Trinity and the primary female face through which Christians experience the divine." 3 Miravalle's petition has received support from Mother Theresa, 550 bishops, Cardinal John O'Connor and 41 other cardinals (including at least 12 cardinals in Rome). If the dogma is declared infallibly, it would pronounce Mary as "Co-Redemptrix [co-redeemer], Mediatrix [mediator] of All Graces, and Advocate for the People of God." It would require all Roman Catholics to believe that:

Mary is co-redemptrix with Jesus. She participates in people's redemption.
Mary is mediatrix and has the power to grant all graces.
Mary is the advocate for the people of God and has the authority to influence God's judgments.
If the dogma is infallibly declared, many feel that, in the words of Father Rene Laurentin, it would be the equivalent of launching "bombs" at Protestants. Father Laurentin is a French monk and the world's leading Mary scholar. He believes that: "Mary is the model of our faith but she is not divine. There is no mediation or co-redemption except in Christ. He alone is God." Raising the status of Mary would further acerbate the split between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches. Ecumenical activity would be negatively affected. There is speculation that a schism might develop over the issue within the Roman Catholic church. There may be a renewed debate over the role of the pope's power in the church. 5,6


References:

1. "Rome says Mary is Co-redeemer, mediator, advocate," Way of Life, at: http://www.whidbey.net/~dcloud/fbns/marycoredeemer.htm

2. Vatican II, "Lumen Gentium: Dogmatic Constitution of the Church," Chapter 8, The Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of god in the mystery of Christ and the Church, II, 56, Pages 380 & 381. Online at: http://www.cin.org/v2church.html

3. Ibid II, 62, Pages 382 & 383.

4. "Inside the Vatican," 1997-JUL, Page 23; as cited in Reference 3.

5. J.J. Russell, "Millions petition pontiff to give Mary new status," The Toronto Star, 2000-DEC-23, Page A20.

6. "The meaning of Mary: A struggle over her role grows within the church," Newsweek cover story, 1997-AUG-25.

7. Vatican II, "Lumen Gentium: Dogmatic Constitution of the Church," Chapter 8, "The Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of god in the mystery of Christ and the Church," III, 62. See: http://www.cin.org/v2church.html

Priests to dress differently, dress the same since 1ST. Century {Traditional dress }

Back to you on the other answers

There is only one priest for the true "born again" Christian, Jesus Christ!

 

[OldRegular]

OldRegular on Purgatory: Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59 – Jesus teaches us, “Come to terms with your opponent or you will be handed over to the judge and thrown into prison. You will not get out until you have paid the last penny.” The word “opponent” (antidiko) is likely a reference to the devil (see the same word for devil in 1 Pet. 5:8) who is an accuser against man (c.f. Job 1.6-12; Zech. 3.1; Rev. 12.10), and God is the judge. If we have not adequately dealt with satan and sin in this life, we will be held in a temporary state called a prison, and we won’t get out until we have satisfied our entire debt to God. This “prison” is purgatory where we will not get out until the last penny is paid.

Clearly pointed out in the 1ST. Century in both New Testament and early Church writers.

Nonsense!

Hebrews 9:27. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

[OldRegular]

Methinks you are playing fast and loose with the historical events in theses lists. I run a business and don't have time to research all of them but one jumped out at me as improbable. Boniface III was not the first pope to be called "pope." It was actually Siricius, who served from 384 to 399. Now, this may come as a surprise to you but "pope" is not an official title at all. It is a popular colloquial title for the Bishop of Rome.

So Roman Catholicism became a cult earlier than I thought!

One more thing, I noticed you put "falling from grace" in quotation marks. I suppose you did this because you believe there is no such thing, despite the very clear language of Galatians 5:4. Maybe you're not as scriptural as you pretend to be?

I know enough Scripture to understand that Roman Catholicism is a Cult.

The Mormons added one little book to the Bible, the Roman Catholics have added an untold number!

The Watchtower Society deny that Jesus Christ is eternally divine. You people are trying to make the Holy Trinity the holy quartet!

 

[Zenas]

Scripture please!

James 5:13-15 and the sacrament is called "Anointing the Sick." Look it up--Catechism 1499-1532.

 

[Zenas]

I know enough Scripture to understand that Roman Catholicism is a Cult.

If you believe that, you truly know very little scripture.

 

[OldRegular]

James 5:13-15 and the sacrament is called "Anointing the Sick." Look it up--Catechism 1499-1532.

That has nothing to do with extreme unction or last rites. That anointing was primarily for physical healing and performed by elders of the Church.

 

[OldRegular]

If you believe that, you truly know very little scripture.

I know enough to know that you cannot make a god out of a human. That is a doctrine of Mormonism, another cult. I assume they stole it from you.

I also know enough that the pope is not the vicar of Jesus Christ on earth. Yet Roman Catholicism is so antichristian that they believe and teach those whom they keep biblically illiterate that an infidel can serve as pope, or the bishop of Rome as someone said. Teaching that an infidel is the representative of Jesus Christ on earth; violent blasphemy! For hundreds of years the Bible was forbidden to anyone outside the priesthood. In fact according to Trent you are not allowed to interpret Scripture any way but that approved by the RCCult!

Furthermore, in order to restrain petulant spirits, It decrees, that no one, relying on his own skill, shall,--in matters of faith, and of morals pertaining to the edification of Christian doctrine, --wresting the sacred Scripture to his own senses, presume to interpret the said sacred Scripture contrary to that sense which holy mother Church,--whose it is to judge of the true sense and interpretation of the holy Scriptures,--hath held and doth hold; or even contrary to the unanimous consent of the Fathers; even though such interpretations were never (intended) to be at any time published. Contraveners shall be made known by their Ordinaries, and be punished with the penalties by law established.http://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/ct04.html

 

[OldRegular]

Did you know?

The Council of Trent declares that Mary was not a perpetual virgin! Read it!

CHAPTER I. http://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/ct14.html
On the Institution of the Sacrament of Extreme Unction.
Now, this sacred unction of the sick was instituted by Christ our Lord, as truly and properly a sacrament of the new law, insinuated indeed in Mark, but recommended and promulgated to the faithful by James the Apostle, and brother of the Lord. Is any man, he saith, sick among you ? Let him bring in the priests of the Church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save the sick man; and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he be in sins, they shall be forgiven him. In which words, as the Church has learned from apostolic tradition, received from hand to hand, he teaches the matter, the form, the proper minister, and the effect of this salutary sacrament. For the Church has understood the matter thereof to be oil blessed by a bishop. For the unction very aptly represents the grace of the Holy Ghost with which the soul of the sick person is invisibly anointed; and furthermore that whose words, "By this unction," &c. are the form.

What will they think of next? Is that what people mean when they say someone is "hoisted by their own petard'.

 

[Zenas]

That has nothing to do with extreme unction or last rites. That anointing was primarily for physical healing and performed by elders of the Church.

Really? " . . .and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him." You never talk about that part of it do you.

 

[Zenas]

I know enough to know that you cannot make a god out of a human. That is a doctrine of Mormonism, another cult. I assume they stole it from you.

I don't know where you get this god thing. However, the Vicar of Christ does deserve respect.

I also know enough that the pope is not the vicar of Jesus Christ on earth. Yet Roman Catholicism is so antichristian that they believe and teach those whom they keep biblically illiterate that an infidel can serve as pope, or the bishop of Rome as someone said. Teaching that an infidel is the representative of Jesus Christ on earth; violent blasphemy! For hundreds of years the Bible was forbidden to anyone outside the priesthood. In fact according to Trent you are not allowed to interpret Scripture any way but that approved by the RCCult!

Several things here in response:

1. "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

2. Are you really saying that none of the 266 popes have been believers?

3. Trent got it right. The Reformation brought Lutheranism, Calvinism, and Anglicanism, each one with its own interpretation of scripture. Since then there have been countless off shoots of these three, each one claiming the correct interpretation of scripture. Among Baptists there are numerous sects, each one claiming the correct interpretation of scripture. All of them can't be right. In fact on any given issue all but one of them, and maybe all of them, are wrong. Having the Magisterium keeps things on the right track, and they are the only ones with authority to proclaim the truth. "When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come."

 

[OldRegular]

I know enough to know that you cannot make a god out of a human. That is a doctrine of Mormonism, another cult. I assume they stole it from you.

I don't know where you get this god thing. However, the Vicar of Christ does deserve respect.

I was speaking about the RCC effort to make a god out of Mary; you know the holy quartet instead of the Holy Trinity. Furthermore, the RCC pope is not the vicar of Jesus Christ!

I also know enough that the pope is not the vicar of Jesus Christ on earth. Yet Roman Catholicism is so antichristian that they believe and teach those whom they keep biblically illiterate that an infidel can serve as pope, or the bishop of Rome as someone said. Teaching that an infidel is the representative of Jesus Christ on earth; violent blasphemy! For hundreds of years the Bible was forbidden to anyone outside the priesthood. In fact according to Trent you are not allowed to interpret Scripture any way but that approved by the RCCult!

Several things here in response:

1. "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

2. Are you really saying that none of the 266 popes have been believers?

Not knowing any of them personally I could not say! History does record that several were infidels and perverts!

3. Trent got it right. The Reformation brought Lutheranism, Calvinism, and Anglicanism, each one with its own interpretation of scripture. Since then there have been countless off shoots of these three, each one claiming the correct interpretation of scripture. Among Baptists there are numerous sects, each one claiming the correct interpretation of scripture. All of them can't be right. In fact on any given issue all but one of them, and maybe all of them, are wrong.

There have always been dissenters from Rome. There would have been more but Rome had a policy of murdering those who dissented from Rome.

Having the Magisterium keeps things on the right track, and they are the only ones with authority to proclaim the truth.

That is obviously contrary to the Scripture you present below. Careful, are you sure the RCC knows you possess a Bible. it was forbidden at one time but I see you are familiar with the RCCult teaching that only the teaching magisterium can interpret Scripture. And it is certain that the teaching magisterium does not know the truth!

"When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come."

Furthermore, the Holy Spirit indwells all true believers and will guide them to the truth if they are willing to listen. But obviously those in the RCCult are forbidden to listen. Luther listened, Calvin listened, and all those dissenters murdered by Rome listened. And I thank God that Baptists listened and still do.

It is apparent that the teaching magisterium was not led by the Holy Spirit or they would not have introduced all the heretical practices into the RCCult.

 

[Zenas]

The Council of Trent declares that Mary was not a perpetual virgin! Read it!



What will they think of next? Is that what people mean when they say someone is "hoisted by their own petard'.

Since you used your trademark bold here, I assume you are referring to the reference to "James the Apostle and brother of the Lord." So what? Paul referred to James as the brother of the Lord. What is wrong with that? But I digress. You think this shows the Catholic Church admits Mary had other children. There are a couple of things wrong with this. First, "brother" is often used in scripture to refer to any close relative. For example, Abraham referred to Lot as his brother. Second, James may have been the half brother of Jesus. In fact, the Orthodox church teaches that James, Jude and Joseph were sons of Joseph by an earlier marriage. A careful reading of scripture reveals that James and Joseph were sons of a woman named Mary who clearly was not the mother of Jesus. Matthew 27:56.

 

[OldRegular]

Since you used your trademark bold here, I assume you are referring to the reference to "James the Apostle and brother of the Lord." So what? Paul referred to James as the brother of the Lord. What is wrong with that? But I digress. You think this shows the Catholic Church admits Mary had other children. There are a couple of things wrong with this. First, "brother" is often used in scripture to refer to any close relative. For example, Abraham referred to Lot as his brother. Second, James may have been the half brother of Jesus. In fact, the Orthodox church teaches that James, Jude and Joseph were sons of Joseph by an earlier marriage. A careful reading of scripture reveals that James and Joseph were sons of a woman named Mary who clearly was not the mother of Jesus. Matthew 27:56.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[Zenas]

I was speaking about the RCC effort to make a god out of Mary; you know the holy quartet instead of the Holy Trinity. Furthermore, the RCC pope is not the vicar of Jesus Christ!

Interesting. I can say Obama is not the President, and I wish he weren't but that doesn't change the truth of the matter.

There have always been dissenters from Rome. There would have been more but Rome had a policy of murdering those who dissented from Rome.

That would ring a lot truer if they had killed their most significant nemeses--Luther and Calvin.

That is obviously contrary to the Scripture you present below. Careful, are you sure the RCC knows you possess a Bible. it was forbidden at one time but I see you are familiar with the RCCult teaching that only the teaching magisterium can interpret Scripture. And it is certain that the teaching magisterium does not know the truth!


Furthermore, the Holy Spirit indwells all true believers and will guide them to the truth if they are willing to listen. But obviously those in the RCCult are forbidden to listen. Luther listened, Calvin listened, and all those dissenters murdered by Rome listened. And I thank God that Baptists listened and still do.

It is apparent that the teaching magisterium was not led by the Holy Spirit or they would not have introduced all the heretical practices into the RCCult.

The Holy Spirit indwells all true believers. No doubt about it. THE HOLY SPIRIT DOES NOT GUIDE ALL BELIEVERS INTO TRUTH. That is the job of the Church. Read John 16. Who was Jesus talking to? His disciples, who would become the apostles, the first elders of the Holy Catholic Church. He was not preaching a sermon to the public. If you really think the Holy Spirit leads believers into truth, you are admitting He is the author of confusion. There are as many versions of truth as there are denominations. I have a much higher view of the Holy Spirit than that. Too bad you don't.

 

[Zenas]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Anyone can paste emoticons. Put some meat on that bone.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

There is only one version of the truth. The rest would be lies.

 

[DHK]

The Holy Spirit indwells all true believers. No doubt about it. THE HOLY SPIRIT DOES NOT GUIDE ALL BELIEVERS INTO TRUTH. That is the job of the Church.

The church is not mentioned in John 16. The RCC church is never mentioned.

Read John 16. Who was Jesus talking to? His disciples, who would become the apostles, the first elders of the Holy Catholic Church.

Just hogwash.
The RCC started out apostate; continued apostate and always will be apostate. It never had the truth to begin with. From its earliest days early Christians always, always, protested and separated from the RCC.

He was not preaching a sermon to the public. If you really think the Holy Spirit leads believers into truth, you are admitting He is the author of confusion. There are as many versions of truth as there are denominations. I have a much higher view of the Holy Spirit than that. Too bad you don't.

Peter and the Apostles have nothing to do with the RCC.
The RCC have its origins in the fourth century beginning with Constantine.

 

[Zenas]

There is only one version of the truth. The rest would be lies.

:thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Zenas]

The church is not mentioned in John 16. The RCC church is never mentioned.

Just hogwash.
The RCC started out apostate; continued apostate and always will be apostate. It never had the truth to begin with. From its earliest days early Christians always, always, protested and separated from the RCC.

Peter and the Apostles have nothing to do with the RCC.
The RCC have its origins in the fourth century beginning with Constantine.

The problem with your theory (and it's really more wishful thinking than a theory) is that there is no evidence of a schism before 1054. Neither is there any evidence that a new church sprang up around the time of Constantine. There was one church before Constantine. There was no schism during the reign of Constantine. There was one church after Constantine. It was the same church before and after, except it was quite a bit larger after Constantine.

If there had been one church before Constantine and two churches after Constantine you might have a credible theory, but there were not.

Every church historian with any credibility disagrees with your position. Bruce Shelley (Baptist) and J.N.D. Kelly (Anglican) to name a couple. I've heard Leon McBeth (Baptist) takes the same position although I haven't read any of his books and can't say for sure.