Why The RCC Is A Cult

[lakeside]

OldRegular, you wrote:Actually those who deny the Lord are the ones who worship and pray to Mary and other assorted so-called saints. That includes you Zenas, as well as every other practicing member of the RCCult. But then since you believe the RCCult saves you I suppose it doesn't really matter! "

Catholics, at least the majority, only pray to the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit, we ask Mary the mother of our Lord [ named Emmanuel, means God amongst us } to pray for us, no different than when you ask a friend, pastor or family member to pray for you or others, whenever will you retain and accept that? The only cults that I know of all have the same bible.

 

[OldRegular]

OldRegular, you wrote:Actually those who deny the Lord are the ones who worship and pray to Mary and other assorted so-called saints. That includes you Zenas, as well as every other practicing member of the RCCult. But then since you believe the RCCult saves you I suppose it doesn't really matter! "

Catholics, at least the majority, only pray to the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit, we ask Mary the mother of our Lord [ named Emmanuel, means God amongst us } to pray for us, no different than when you ask a friend, pastor or family member to pray for you or others, whenever will you retain and accept that? The only cults that I know of all have the same bible.

Nonsense, you are simply shuffling your feet amongst a litter of buffalo chips; I don't ask dead friends, pastors, etc to pray for me!

THE VIRGIN MARY AS CO-REDEMPTRIX, MEDIATRIX AND ADVOCATE

Current status of Mary:

From: http://www.religioustolerance.org/mary_cor.htm

Although the virgin Mary is rarely mentioned in the Bible, and although Protestant churches consider her to be a relatively minor biblical character, the Roman Catholic Church has long assigned her an elevated status.

The Roman Catholic Church has historically taught two basic dogmas about Mary:

1. Mary is the Mother of God.

2. Perpetual Virginity: Mary was a virgin when Yeshua (Jesus) was conceived; this state continued throughout her life.​

Two additional dogmas about Mary were infallibly proclaimed by two popes during the 19th and 20th centuries:

3. Immaculate Conception: Pope Pius IX proclaimed the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Mary on 1854-DEC-8. Many Roman Catholics believe that this refers to Jesus' conception circa 5 to 7 BCE. In fact, it means that Mary herself was conceived free of sin before her birth circa 20 BCE.

4. Assumption of Mary: Pope Pius XII, in his Munificentissimus Deus (1950-NOV-1), defined that Mary, "after the completion of her earthly life was assumed body and soul into the glory of Heaven." That is, she was "taken up body and soul into heaven," at the time of her death. She is there "exalted as Queen of the Universe." 1​

In addition, various popes and church councils have referred to Mary as co-redemptrix, mediatrix, and advocate:

In ancient times:

St. Antonius (circa 250 - 350): "All graces that have ever been bestowed on men, all came through Mary."

St. Bernard (1090 - 1153): "[Mary is called] the gate of heaven, because no one can enter that blessed kingdom without passing through her."

St. Bonaventure (1221 - 1274): "As the moon, which stands between the sun and the earth, transmits to this latter whatever it receives from the former, so does Mary pour out upon us who are in this world the heavenly graces that she receives from the divine sun of justice." 1​

1750: Alphonsus Mary de Liguori, canonized as Saint Alphonsus in 1839, wrote a book "The Glories of Mary." It continues to be published today, under various church imprimaturs. Various chapters in the book are titled: "Mary our Help," "Mary our Mediatress," "Mary our Advocate," etc. 1

1935: Pope Pius XI gave the title co-redemptrix to Mary during a radio broadcast. 1

1964-NOV-21: The Chapter 8 of the Dogmatic Constitution of the Church, passed by the Vatican Council II, and "Solemnly promulgated by Holiness Pope Paul VI" states, in part:

"Rightly, therefore, the Fathers see Mary not merely as passively engaged by God, but as freely cooperating in the work of man’s salvation through faith and obedience. For as St. Irenaeus says, she being obedient, became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race. Hence not a few of the early Fathers gladly assert with him in their preaching ...'death through Eve, life through Mary.' This union of the mother with the son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ’s virginal conception up to his death" 2

"Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation. By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and difficulties, until they are led into their blessed home. Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress and Mediatrix." 3

"...the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix. This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator."

"For no creature could ever be counted as equal with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer. Just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by the ministers and by the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is really communicated in different ways to His creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source." (Footnotes deleted) 7​

1985: Pope John Paul II recognized Mary as co-redemptrix" during a speech in Guayaquil, Ecuador. He said, in part, "Having suffered for the Church, Mary deserved to become the Mother of all the disciples of her Son, the Mother of their unity...In fact Mary’s role as Co-redemptrix did not cease with the glorification of her Son." 4

1987-MAR-25: In his encyclical Redemptoris Mater, Pope John Paul II "referred to Mary as 'Mediatrix' three times, and as 'Advocate' twice." 1

1997-APR-9: During an audience Pope John-Paul II referred to the role of Mary during the crucifixion of Jesus: "Mary … co-operated during the event itself and in the role of mother; thus her co-operation embraces the whole of Christ’s saving work. She alone was associated in this way with the redemptive sacrifice that merited the salvation of all mankind. In union with Christ and in submission to him, she collaborated in obtaining the grace of salvation for all humanity...In God’s plan, Mary is the ‘woman’ (cf. John 2:4; John 19:26), the New Eve, united to the New Adam in restoring humanity to its original dignity. Her cooperation with her Son continues for all time in the universal motherhood which she enjoys in the order of grace. Trusting in this maternal cooperation, let us turn to Mary, imploring her help in all our needs." 1​

Although Mary has been referred to on numerous occasions as co-redemptrix, mediatrix, and advocate, none have the force of an infallible papal declaration.


Petition drive to promote an infallible statement:

Professor Mark Miravalle of Franciscan University in Steubenville, OH, initiated a formal petition drive in 1993 during a Marian conference at that university. It asks the Pope to make infallible statement that would officially elevate Mary, the mother of Jesus, to the status of co-redeemer. More than six million signatures from 148 countries have reached the Vatican as of the end of the year 2000, asking that Pope John Paul II infallibly declare a new dogma: "That the Virgin Mary is a co-redeemer with Jesus and co-operates fully with her son in the redemption of humanity." If this were done, "she would be a vastly more powerful figure, something close to the fourth member of the Holy Trinity and the primary female face through which Christians experience the divine." 3 Miravalle's petition has received support from Mother Theresa, 550 bishops, Cardinal John O'Connor and 41 other cardinals (including at least 12 cardinals in Rome). If the dogma is declared infallibly, it would pronounce Mary as "Co-Redemptrix [co-redeemer], Mediatrix [mediator] of All Graces, and Advocate for the People of God." It would require all Roman Catholics to believe that:

Mary is co-redemptrix with Jesus. She participates in people's redemption.
Mary is mediatrix and has the power to grant all graces.
Mary is the advocate for the people of God and has the authority to influence God's judgments.​

If the dogma is infallibly declared, many feel that, in the words of Father Rene Laurentin, it would be the equivalent of launching "bombs" at Protestants. Father Laurentin is a French monk and the world's leading Mary scholar. He believes that: "Mary is the model of our faith but she is not divine. There is no mediation or co-redemption except in Christ. He alone is God." Raising the status of Mary would further acerbate the split between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches. Ecumenical activity would be negatively affected. There is speculation that a schism might develop over the issue within the Roman Catholic church. There may be a renewed debate over the role of the pope's power in the church. 5,6


References:

1. "Rome says Mary is Co-redeemer, mediator, advocate," Way of Life, at: http://www.whidbey.net/~dcloud/fbns/marycoredeemer.htm

2. Vatican II, "Lumen Gentium: Dogmatic Constitution of the Church," Chapter 8, The Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of god in the mystery of Christ and the Church, II, 56, Pages 380 & 381. Online at: http://www.cin.org/v2church.html

3. Ibid II, 62, Pages 382 & 383.

4. "Inside the Vatican," 1997-JUL, Page 23; as cited in Reference 3.

5. J.J. Russell, "Millions petition pontiff to give Mary new status," The Toronto Star, 2000-DEC-23, Page A20.

6. "The meaning of Mary: A struggle over her role grows within the church," Newsweek cover story, 1997-AUG-25.

7. Vatican II, "Lumen Gentium: Dogmatic Constitution of the Church," Chapter 8, "The Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of god in the mystery of Christ and the Church," III, 62. See: http://www.cin.org/v2church.html

 

[OldRegular]

I can't wait for your pontifications (pardon the pun) on Vatican II. Don't forget to quote the really bad parts in giant capital letters.

Various and Sundry Heresies as promulgated in Vatican II, Chapter 8, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church.

THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY, MOTHER OF GOD IN THE MYSTERY OF CHRIST AND THE CHURCH

II. The Role of the Blessed Mother in the Economy of Salvation

55. The Sacred Scriptures of both the Old and the New Testament, as well as ancient Tradition show the role of the Mother of the Saviour in the economy of salvation in an ever clearer light and draw attention to it. The books of the Old Testament describe the history of salvation, by which the coming of Christ into the world was slowly prepared. These earliest documents, as they are read in the Church and are understood in the light of a further and full revelation, bring the figure of the woman, Mother of the Redeemer, into a gradually clearer light. When it is looked at in this way, she is already prophetically foreshadowed in the promise of victory over the serpent which was given to our first parents after their fall into sin.(284) Likewise she is the Virgin who shall conceive and bear a son, whose name will be called Emmanuel.(285) She stands out among the poor and humble of the Lord, who confidently hope for and receive salvation from Him. With her the exalted Daughter of Sion, and after a long expectation of the promise, the times are fulfilled and the new Economy established, when the Son of God took a human nature from her, that He might in the mysteries of His flesh free man from sin.

58. In the public life of Jesus, Mary makes significant appearances. This is so even at the very beginning, when at the marriage feast of Cana, moved with pity, she brought about by her intercession the beginning of miracles of Jesus the Messiah.(291) In the course of her Son's preaching she received the words whereby in extolling a kingdom beyond the calculations and bonds of flesh and blood, He declared blessed(292) those who heard and kept the word of God, as she was faithfully doing.(293) After this manner the Blessed Virgin advanced in her pilgrimage of faith, and faithfully persevered in her union with her Son unto the cross, where she stood, in keeping with the divine plan,(294) grieving exceedingly with her only begotten Son, uniting herself with a maternal heart with His sacrifice, and lovingly consenting to the immolation of this Victim which she herself had brought forth. Finally, she was given by the same Christ Jesus dying on the cross as a mother to His disciple with these words: "Woman, behold thy son".(295) (11*)

59. But since it has pleased God not to manifest solemnly the mystery cf the salvation of the human race before He would pour forth the Spirit promised by Christ, we see the apostles before the day of Pentecost "persevering with one mind in prayer with the women and Mary the Mother of Jesus, and with His brethren",(296) and Mary by her prayers imploring the gift of the Spirit, who had already overshadowed her in the Annunciation. Finally, the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all guilt of original sin,(12*) on the completion of her earthly sojourn, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory,(13*) and exalted by the Lord as Queen of the universe, that she might be the more fully confimed to her Son, the Lord of lords(297) and the conqueror of sin and death.(l4*)

62. This maternity of Mary in the order of grace began with the consent which she gave in faith at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, and lasts until The eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this salvific duty, but by her constant intercession continued to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation.(15*) By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and difficulties, until they are led into the happiness of their true home. Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix.(16*) This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.(17*)

IV. The Cult of the Blessed Virgin in the Church

66. Placed by the grace of God, as God's Mother, next to her Son, and exalted above all angels and men, Mary intervened in the mysteries of Christ and is justly honored by a special cult in the Church. Clearly from earliest times the Blessed Virgin is honored under the title of Mother of God, under whose protection the faithful took refuge in all their dangers and necessities.(21*) Hence after the Synod of Ephesus the cult of the people of God toward Mary wonderfully increased in veneration and love, in invocation and imitation, according to her own prophetic words: "All generations shall call me blessed, because He that is mighty hath done great things to me".(301) This cult, as it always existed, although it is altogether singular, differs essentially from the cult of adoration which is offered to the Incarnate Word, as well to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and it is most favorable to it. The various forms of piety toward the Mother of God, which the Church within the limits of sound and orthodox doctrine, according to the conditions of time and place, and the nature and ingenuity of the faithful has approved, bring it about that while the Mother is honored, the Son, through whom all things have their being (302) and in whom it has pleased the Father that all fullness should dwell,(303) is rightly known, loved and glorified and that all His commands are observed.

67. This most Holy Synod deliberately teaches this Catholic doctrine and at the same time admonishes all the sons of the Church that the cult, especially the liturgical cult, of the Blessed Virgin, be generously fostered, and the practices and exercises of piety, recommended by the magisterium of the Church toward her in the course of centuries be made of great moment, and those decrees, which have been given in the early days regarding the cult of images of Christ, the Blessed Virgin and the saints, be religiously observed.(22*) But it exhorts theologians and preachers of the divine word to abstain zealously both from all gross exaggerations as well as from petty narrow-mindedness in considering the singular dignity of the Mother of God.(23*) Following the study of Sacred Scripture, the Holy Fathers, the doctors and liturgy of the Church, and under the guidance of the Church's magisterium, let them rightly illustrate the duties and privileges of the Blessed Virgin which always look to Christ, the source of all truth, sanctity and piety. Let them assiduously keep away from whatever, either by word or deed, could lead separated brethren or any other into error regarding the true doctrine of the Church. Let the faithful remember moreover that true devotion consists neither in sterile or transitory affection, nor in a certain vain credulity, but proceeds from true faith, by which we are led to know the excellence of the Mother of God, and we are moved to a filial love toward our mother and to the imitation of her virtues.

V. Mary the sign of created hope and solace to the wandering people of God

68. In the interim just as the Mother of Jesus, glorified in body and soul in heaven, is the image and beginning of the Church as it is to be perfected is the world to come, so too does she shine forth on earth, until the day of the Lord shall come,(304) as a sign of sure hope and solace to the people of God during its sojourn on earth.

69. It gives great joy and comfort to this holy and general Synod that even among the separated brethren there are some who give due honor to the Mother of our Lord and Saviour, especially among the Orientals, who with devout mind and fervent impulse give honor to the Mother of God, ever virgin.(24*) The entire body of the faithful pours forth instant supplications to the Mother of God and Mother of men that she, who aided the beginnings of the Church by her prayers, may now, exalted as she is above all the angels and saints, intercede before her Son in the fellowship of all the saints, until all families of people, whether they are honored with the title of Christian or whether they still do not know the Saviour, may be happily gathered together in peace and harmony into one people of God, for the glory of the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity.

Each and all these items which are set forth in this dogmatic Constitution have met with the approval of the Council Fathers. And We by the apostolic power given Us by Christ together with the Venerable Fathers in the Holy Spirit, approve, decree and establish it and command that what has thus been decided in the Council be promulgated for the glory of God.

Given in Rome at St. Peter's on November 21, 1964.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/v2church.htm

There is absolutely no Scripture that justifies any of the above other than Mary was the mother of the human nature go Jesus Christ. Sadly all the rest is created by the same mentality that ruled the Roman Empire.

 

[OldRegular]

Continued from previous post!

There is absolutely no Scripture that justifies any of the above other than Mary was the mother of the human nature go Jesus Christ. Sadly all the rest is created by the same mentality that ruled the Roman Empire.

n Ancient Rome religion was very important to the people. As part of their daily routine they would honour their gods and goddesses, sometimes with offerings or sacrifices.

There were public temples to gods and goddesses all over the Roman Empire and every home had a shrine or room dedicated to the gods.

Juno was the wife of Jupiter, king of the gods. She was the Roman Goddesss representing women.

Roman Goddesses

Ceres (Demeter) was the goddess of agriculture and fertility

Diana (Artemis) was the goddess of the hunt and protector of children

Juno (Hera) was the goddess of marriage; consort of Jupiter

Minerva (Athena) was the goddess of wisdom, war, and crafts

Venus (Aphrodite) was the goddess of love and beauty

http://www.hadrians.com/rome/romans/religion/roman_goddesses.html

 

[OldRegular]

http://solochristo.com/theology/Church/cc/cciv.htm

Although many of these beliefs were practiced earlier than the dates given, they did not become binding on all Catholics until they were officially adopted by church councils and proclaimed by the Pope as dogmas of faith. All dates are approximate.

1. Presbyter (or elders) were first called priests by Lucian...2nd century.

2. Prayers for the dead...AD. 300.

3. The VENERATION (2) of angels and dead saints and the use of images...375.

4. The Mass as a daily celebration was adopted...394.

5. The beginning of the exaltation of Mary, and the first use of the term "Mother of God" by the Council of Ephesus...431.

6. Priests began to dress different from the laity and to wear special clothes...500.

7. Extreme Unction (3) ...526.

8. The doctrine of purgatory was first established by Gregory the Great...593.

9. Prayers began to be offered to Mary, dead saints, and angels...600.

10. The first man was proclaimed "Pope" (Boniface III)...610.

11. Veneration of the cross, images, and relics authorized...788.

12. Holy water, mixed with a pinch of salt and blessed by a priest was authorized in...850.

13. Veneration of Saint Joseph...890.

14. College of cardinals begun...927.

15. Canonization of dead saints, first by Pope John XV...995.

16. The Mass developed gradually as a sacrifice, attendance was made obligatory in...11th century.

17. The celibacy of the priesthood was decreed by Pope Hildebrand, Boniface VII...1079.

18. The rosary, or prayer beads copied from Hindus and Mohammedans) was introduced by Peter the Hermit...1090.

19. The Inquisition (5) of "Heretics" was instituted by the Council of Verona...1184, and was legalized and promoted by the Fourth Lateran Council in 1215.

20. The sale of Indulgences...1190.

21. The seven sacraments defined by Peter Lombard...12th century.

22. The dogma of transubstantiation was decreed by Pope Innocent III ...1215.

23. Confession of sins to the priest at least once a year was instituted by Pope Innocent III in the Lateran Council...1215.

24. The adoration of the wafer (host) decreed by Pope Honorius III ...1220.

25. The scapular (6) invented by Simon Stock of England...1251.

26. The doctrine of purgatory proclaimed a dogma by the Council of Florence...1439.

27. Tradition is declared of equal authority with the Bible by the Council Trent...1546.

28. The Apocryphal Books were added to the Bible by the Council of Trent...1545.

29. The Immaculate Conception (7) of Mary was proclaimed by Pope Pius IX in 1854.

30. Pope Pius IX condemns all scientific discoveries not approved by the Roman Church...1864.

31. Infallibility of the pope in matters of faith and morals proclaimed by the First Vatican Council...1870.

32. Pius XI condemned the public schools...1930.

33. Pius XI reaffirmed the doctrine that Mary is "The Mother of God" ...1931.

34. The dogma of the Assumption (8) of the Virgin Mary was proclaimed by Pope Pius XII...1950.

35. Mary proclaimed the Mother of the Church by Pope Paul VI...1965.

**************************************************************************************************

A Scholar Looks at Vatican II

Dr. Loraine Boettner, noted Evangelical authority on Roman Catholic doctrine, takes an in-depth look at the documents of Vatican II in the preface to the fifth edition of his book Roman Catholicism. Dr. Boettner writes:

"The Second Vatican Council, which closed late in 1965, made changes in the liturgy, administrative practices, and in the matter of religious freedom. It repeated the claim that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church, although it did recognize that other churches contain some elements of truth.

"But Pope John XXIII, who called the first session, and Pope Paul VI, who presided over the later sessions (as well as several prominent cardinal and theologians), took care to emphasize that no changes would be made in the doctrinal structure of the Church. However, Pope Paul did promulgate [declare] one new doctrine, which asserts that `Mary is the Mother of the Church.' The primary purpose of the Council was to update the liturgy and administrative practices and so to make the Church more efficient and more acceptable to the 20th century world.

"The introduction of the `New Mass,' for instance, brought about a change in language - Latin is no longer required, except in the prayer of consecration. But as Protestants, it is not important to us whether the Mass is said in Latin or English or Swahili - it is not the language of the Mass that we object to, it is its content and meaning. (See Chronicle II, `The Sacrifice of the Mass').

"On previous occasions, Rome has changed her tactics when old methods became ineffective, but she has never changed her nature. In any religious organization, doctrine is the most basic and important part of its structure, since what people believe determines what they do. An official document, `The Constitution on the Church' prepared by the Council and approved by the Pope, reaffirms basic Catholic doctrine precisely as it stood before the Council met.

The doctrine of papal infallibility is restated. We are told that when `by a definitive act he proclaims a doctrine of faith and morals...his definitions, of themselves, and not by the consent of the Church, are justly called, irreformable (Article 25). The pope has lost none of his powers. He remains the absolute ruler in the Roman Church. But if papal decrees past and present are 'irreformable', what hope is there for real reform in the Church of Rome?

"The document on the Church repeats in substance the teaching of the Council of Trent that `priests and bishops are the representatives of God on earth...justly, therefore, they are called not only angels, but gods, holding as they do the place of authority of God on earth.' (Catechism of Trent).

"In fact, no more sweeping claims were made by the Council of Trent (1545-1563), nor by the First Vatican Council (1870), than are made in these documents from Vatican II. Despite all the claims to the contrary, the Council has firmly maintained the doctrine of the primacy of Peter (4) and of papal succession. In his book, Ecclesiam Suam, Pope Paul expressed his distress because of what some of the `separated brethren' (9) say about the pope as the stumbling block in the way of church unity. He said, `Do not some of them say that if it were not for the primacy of the pope, the reunion of the separated churches with Catholic Church would be easy? We beg the separated brethren to consider the inconsistency of this position, not only in that, without the pope, the Catholic Church would no longer be Catholic, but also because without the supreme decisive pastoral office of Peter, the unity of the Church of Christ would utterly collapse.'

"We must say that at this point we agree with the Pope, at least to this extent, that if the Roman Catholic Church were reformed according to scripture, it would have to be abandoned. But the gross errors concerning salvation still remain. Moreover, the Council did nothing toward removing the more than 100 anathemas or curses pronounced by the Council of Trent on the Protestant churches and beliefs. If there is to be any true unity, surely this would seem the logical place to start."

Conclusion

We could not find a more fitting conclusion than Dr. Boettner's:

"The 'Constitution on the Church' makes it abundantly clear that Rome has no intention of revising any of her basic doctrine, but only of updating her methods and techniques for more efficient administration and to present a more attractive appearance. This is designed to make it easier for the Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, and Protestant churches to return to her fold. There is no indication that she has any intentions of entering into genuine give-and-take church unity negotiations. Her purpose is not union, but ABSORPTION. Church union with Rome is strictly a one-way street. The age-old danger that Protestantism has faced from the Roman Church has not diminished; in fact, it may well have increased. For through this less offensive posture and this superficial ecumenicism, Rome is much better situated to carry out her program of eliminating opposition and moving into a position of world dominance. AN INFALLIBLE CHURCH SIMPLY CANNOT REPENT."

And these people insist they have not changed in the last 2000 years; that they are the Church Jesus Christ established!:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[Zenas]

Various and Sundry Heresies as promulgated in Vatican II, Chapter 8, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church.



There is absolutely no Scripture that justifies any of the above other than Mary was the mother of the human nature go Jesus Christ. Sadly all the rest is created by the same mentality that ruled the Roman Empire.

Attaboy! Use those big letters. It lets people know you mean business (whether or not you make a grain of sense). :tonofbricks: By the way are you a Nestorian or do you just argue like one?

 

[OldRegular]

Attaboy! Use those big letters. It lets people know you mean business (whether or not you make a grain of sense). :tonofbricks: By the way are you a Nestorian or do you just argue like one?

One thing is certain, Mary is not the mother of God. She is the mother of the human nature of Jesus Christ. Only a heretic or a Mormon would believe God had a mother.

Nestorius suffered the fate of all those who dissented from Rome. And Rome hasn't changed.

 

[Zenas]

One thing is certain, Mary is not the mother of God. She is the mother of the human nature of Jesus Christ. Only a heretic or a Mormon would believe God had a mother.

Nestorius suffered the fate of all those who dissented from Rome. And Rome hasn't changed.

So is it fair to say you reject all Roman Catholic dogma?

 

[lakeside]

OldRegular, you're the one who believes that God is limited. You haven't a clue to what God can or can not do. And please learn a little Christian [ real ] history because those dates that you wrote are not the dates that each event occurred or was practiced.
OldRegular, hint,women don't give birth to a "human nature", they give birth to human persons who have a human nature. If you call yourself a Christian, then you believe that God the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit are "All " in One, maybe you don't believe in the Trinity, are you a Mormon OldRegular ? Mary is the Ark of the Covenant that carried within her womb the Word of God in flesh. A virgin shall conceive and bear a Son and His name shall be called Emmanuel { which means God with us }

 

[OldRegular]

So is it fair to say you reject all Roman Catholic dogma?

The Bible alone is the Word of God! The heretical additions of popes and cardinals and bishops have resulted in the abomination called Roman Catholicism.

Furthermore, you papist worshiper! God is ETERNAL. God was NOT BORN. God does not have a mother. The papacy and teaching magisterium have adopted the old Roman pagan concept of God when they state that God has a mother and that is a fact. Roman Catholicism is a HERETICAL CULT. Nothing proves this more than your admission that some of the popes who you believe were the Vicar of Jesus Christ were indeed infidels.

Originally Posted by Zenas
The Church teaches that the Pope is infallible, not that he is impeccable. There is no dogma, no council, nothing in the Catechism that implies all popes go to heaven. I can't wait for your pontifications (pardon the pun) on Vatican II. Don't forget to quote the really bad parts in giant capital letters.

In keeping with your desire stated above I presented additional heretical statements from Vatican II to aid your understanding of that which you worship. I also presented, for the second time, a partial list of the heretical additions of the popes and teaching magisterium to Roman cultism. These people tossed Jesus Christ out hundreds of years ago, around 600 AD, and replaced him with the papacy and Mary!

 

[OldRegular]

OldRegular, you're the one who believes that God is limited. You haven't a clue to what God can or can not do. And please learn a little Christian [ real ] history because those dates that you wrote are not the dates that each event occurred or was practiced.
OldRegular, hint,women don't give birth to a "human nature", they give birth to human persons who have a human nature. If you call yourself a Christian, then you believe that God the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit are "All " in One, maybe you don't believe in the Trinity, are you a Mormon OldRegular ? Mary is the Ark of the Covenant that carried within her womb the Word of God in flesh. A virgin shall conceive and bear a Son and His name shall be called Emmanuel { which means God with us }

One thing is certain God has nothing to do with the Cult called Roman Catholicism. They tossed Him, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, out hundreds of years ago, around 600 AD, as I told Zenas in the above post.

 

[Zenas]

The Bible alone is the Word of God! The heretical additions of popes and cardinals and bishops have resulted in the abomination called Roman Catholicism.

Furthermore, you papist worshiper! God is ETERNAL. God was NOT BORN. God does not have a mother. The papacy and teaching magisterium have adopted the old Roman pagan concept of God when they state that God has a mother and that is a fact. Roman Catholicism is a HERETICAL CULT. Nothing proves this more than your admission that some of the popes who you believe were the Vicar of Jesus Christ were indeed infidels.


In keeping with your desire stated above I presented additional heretical statements from Vatican II to aid your understanding of that which you worship. I also presented, for the second time, a partial list of the heretical additions of the popes and teaching magisterium to Roman cultism. These people tossed Jesus Christ out hundreds of years ago, around 600 AD, and replaced him with the papacy and Mary!

I take it you like to write a lot. I asked a simple question that called for a yes or no answer and you gave me two paragraphs, and you never completely answered my question.

So are you saying that doctrine promulgated before 600 or thereabouts is OK, but doctrine after that time is not?

 

[OldRegular]

I take it you like to write a lot. I asked a simple question that called for a yes or no answer and you gave me two paragraphs, and you never completely answered my question.

So are you saying that doctrine promulgated before 600 or thereabouts is OK, but doctrine after that time is not?

Anything added to the Bible, or taking precedence over the Bible, is heretical and forbidden! A true believer should be able to understand that.

As far as 600AD two edicts were issued. I repeat them for your edification!

9. Prayers began to be offered to Mary, dead saints, and angels...600.

10. The first man was proclaimed "Pope" (Boniface III)...610.

That is perhaps the most significant departure from Biblical teaching by Rome until that time. Actually everything in the list I presented, Post #165, was unBiblical and heretical. The presented prior to 600AD were just not as significant as the above two in my opinion. But in order to help you understand I will repost the preceding 8:

1. Presbyter (or elders) were first called priests by Lucian...2nd century.

2. Prayers for the dead...AD. 300.

3. The VENERATION (2) of angels and dead saints and the use of images...375.

4. The Mass as a daily celebration was adopted...394.

5. The beginning of the exaltation of Mary, and the first use of the term "Mother of God" by the Council of Ephesus...431.

6. Priests began to dress different from the laity and to wear special clothes...500.

7. Extreme Unction (3) ...526.

8. The doctrine of purgatory was first established by Gregory the Great...593.

Now I cannot guarantee that there were not other heresies promulgated by Rome that are not listed in my post above. You should be able to provide a more inclusive list since you claim to have made an exhaustive study of Roman Catholicism before "falling from Grace"!

I would add that I am very impressed by the way you and your cohorts have vigorously defended the RCCult!

 

[lakeside]

OldRegular, start with your angel statement- Ex.23:20-23 – “See, I am sending an angel before you, to guard you on the way and bring you to the place I have prepared. Be attentive to him and heed his voice. Do not rebel against him, for he will not forgive your sin. My authority resides in him. If you heed his voice and carry out all I tell you, I will be an enemy to your enemies and a foe to your foes. My angel will go before you and bring you to the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites and Jebusites; and I will wipe them out.”

Judith 13:20 – “As the same Lord lives, his angel has been my keeper both going hence and abiding there, and returning from there here; and the Lord has not suffered me his handmaid to be defiled, but has brought me back to you without pollution of sin, rejoicing for his victory, for my escape, and for your deliverance.”

Psalm 34:8 – “The angel of the LORD, who encamps with them, delivers all who fear God.”

Psalm 91:11-13 – “For God commands the angels to guard you in all your ways. With their hands they shall support you, lest you strike your foot against a stone. You shall tread upon the asp and the viper, trample the lion and the dragon.” God reveals to David that the angels will guard and protect him. Since this Psalm was written about 1,000 years before Christ, the belief in guardian angels was well-established among the Jews.

Dan. 10:13 – “but the prince of the kingdom of Persia stood in my way for twenty-one days, until finally Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me. I left him there with the prince of the kings of Persia…” See also Dan. 4:17; 10:10-21; and Acts 16:6 where angels serve as guardians of entire countries.

Matt.18:10 - "See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven always look upon the face of my heavenly Father.” Jesus’ use of “their angels” (hoi angeloi auton) in reference to “one of these little ones” (enos ton micron touton) indicates that each “little one” has an angel to guard and protect the little one.

Acts 12:14-15 – “She was so overjoyed when she recognized Peter's voice that, instead of opening the gate, she ran in and announced that Peter was standing at the gate. They told her, "You are out of your mind," but she insisted that it was so. But they kept saying, “It is his angel.” This demonstrates that adults also have guardian angels. The phrase “they kept saying” also shows that the belief in guardian angels was common in the early Church.

Acts 16:9 – “During the night Paul had a vision. A Macedonian stood before him and implored him with these words, "Come over to Macedonia and help us.” See also Acts 5:19; 8:26; 10:3,22; 11:13).

Heb. 1:14 – “Are they not all ministering spirits sent to serve, for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?” This verse clearly indicates that God created the angels to help us achieve salvation.

Rev. 1:20 – “This is the secret meaning of the seven stars you saw in my right hand, and of the seven gold lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.”

Rev. 3:1 - "To the angel of the church in Sardis, write this: 'The one who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars says this: “I know your works, that you have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead.” See the presence of the “seven angels” also in Rev. 1:4,20; 3:1; 8:2,6; Isaiah 63:9 and Tobit 12:15.

Gen. 16:6; 24:7; Judith 13:20; Hos. 12:4; 1 Kings 19:5 – other references to guardian angels.

 

[lakeside]

OldRegular-Next your priest statement- see Heb.5:1

Exaltation of Mary- Book of Luke 1st Century

Priests to dress differently, dress the same since 1ST. Century {Traditional dress }

Back to you on the other answers

 

[BobRyan]

OldRegular, you wrote:Actually those who deny the Lord are the ones who worship and pray to Mary and other assorted so-called saints. That includes you Zenas, as well as every other practicing member of the RCCult. But then since you believe the RCCult saves you I suppose it doesn't really matter! "

Catholics, at least the majority, only pray to the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit, we ask Mary the mother of our Lord [ named Emmanuel, means God amongst us } to pray for us, no different than when you ask a friend, pastor or family member to pray for you or others, whenever will you retain and accept that? The only cults that I know of all have the same bible.

1. The Catholic church does not allow you too pray to living friends. It is not the same thing even by RCC standards.

2. The Ten Commandments say not to make an image of - bow down to - or serve them. All of this you do in the case of Mary and other saints.

3. Is 8:19 says not to ask the dead for favors. 1Thess 4 says "the DEAD in Christ will rise first". - meaning the saints.

4. Your own "Catholic Digest" admits that in the OT they had the command from God to wipe out such practices as praying to the dead - but today the Catholics do it.

That is a problem.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[lakeside]

OldRegular- Extreme Unction is a true sacrament instituted by Christ and proclaimed by St. James 1ST. Century

 

[lakeside]

OldRegular on Purgatory: Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59 – Jesus teaches us, “Come to terms with your opponent or you will be handed over to the judge and thrown into prison. You will not get out until you have paid the last penny.” The word “opponent” (antidiko) is likely a reference to the devil (see the same word for devil in 1 Pet. 5:8) who is an accuser against man (c.f. Job 1.6-12; Zech. 3.1; Rev. 12.10), and God is the judge. If we have not adequately dealt with satan and sin in this life, we will be held in a temporary state called a prison, and we won’t get out until we have satisfied our entire debt to God. This “prison” is purgatory where we will not get out until the last penny is paid.

Clearly pointed out in the 1ST. Century in both New Testament and early Church writers.

 

[lakeside]

BobRyan, I bow down only to Christ. You just haven't a clue. As a Catholic I was taught only to pray to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Do you see anything wrong with that ?

 

[Zenas]

Anything added to the Bible, or taking precedence over the Bible, is heretical and forbidden! A true believer should be able to understand that.

As far as 600AD two edicts were issued. I repeat them for your edification!



That is perhaps the most significant departure from Biblical teaching by Rome until that time. Actually everything in the list I presented, Post #165, was unBiblical and heretical. The presented prior to 600AD were just not as significant as the above two in my opinion. But in order to help you understand I will repost the preceding 8:



Now I cannot guarantee that there were not other heresies promulgated by Rome that are not listed in my post above. You should be able to provide a more inclusive list since you claim to have made an exhaustive study of Roman Catholicism before "falling from Grace"!

I would add that I am very impressed by the way you and your cohorts have vigorously defended the RCCult!

Methinks you are playing fast and loose with the historical events in theses lists. I run a business and don't have time to research all of them but one jumped out at me as improbable. Boniface III was not the first pope to be called "pope." It was actually Siricius, who served from 384 to 399. Now, this may come as a surprise to you but "pope" is not an official title at all. It is a popular colloquial title for the Bishop of Rome.

One more thing, I noticed you put "falling from grace" in quotation marks. I suppose you did this because you believe there is no such thing, despite the very clear language of Galatians 5:4. Maybe you're not as scriptural as you pretend to be?