Will people burn in hell forever?

[Blammo]

Why do you link to such a site? This is not very responsible.

It doesn't scare me. I have an open mind, that's why I am a christian. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Just because it says, 'where the beast and the false prophet are,' does not mean that there are not more there.

I can say I went to a church meeting where Doug Oldham was. Does that mean Doug Oldham was the only person there? Certainly not. The Bible is just pointing out that the beast and the false prophet will be there.

As to the flesh being in hell, I certainly believe it will be. The rich man lifted his eyes in hell, being in torment. He had eyes. Eyes are fleshly. He mentioned having a tongue.

I certainly believe just as the believer will be raised with an incorruptible body, the one who rejected Christ will have a body that will not be destroyed in the flames of hell, but the smoke of their torment will ascend forever and ever.

If they were completely annihilated, there would be no smoke rising forever and ever. The smoke would eventually die out.

Friends, hell is a reality. Everlasting torment is a reality.

 

[Mercury]

Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

HP: Here is but another example of hell being clearly defined as a place of eternal torment and suffering. The same idea is repeated several times in the NT as well.

How is a passage describing dead bodies being devoured by worms and flames a support for the idea of eternal torment?

As for the rest, once again people appeal to taking a select few verses of the vision in Revelation literally while taking Jesus' didactic teaching about the fate of the wicked figuratively (or just ignoring it). That's the only way one can get the conclusion of eternal torment.

 

[Mercury]

The rich man lifted his eyes in hell, being in torment. He had eyes. Eyes are fleshly. He mentioned having a tongue.

Yes, and he thought a literal bit of water would ease his torment. And, he is able to see and speak to the righteous dead, and they can see and speak to him. Do you take these details as being literal details about hell as well, or are you selective?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

SBCPreacher... he wouldn't be on this board if he wasnt a christian.

secondly. whats wrong with asking potiential questions that unbelievers may ask? maybe he's doing this so that he'll be ready "in season and out of season" ready to give an answer to some harder questions.

look a little deeper next time. surface searching wont help.

I disagree. There have been some on here in the past who have proven to be unsaved. Many of the Moderators could verify this.

Sometimes people do slip through. There is not really a system where one's church is called to verify that one goes to that church, that one shows the fruit of the Spirit in one's life.

Also, if one gets offended at being asked if they are a true follower of Christ then something is terribly wrong. Jesus said 'If you deny me before man, I will deny you before the Father.'

We are told that we should all be ready to give an answer for the hope that lies within us. So I also will ask...

xdisciplex, Are you a Christian? Have you placed your trust in the shed blood of Christ to cleanse you from all unrighteousness?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Yes, and he thought a literal bit of water would ease his torment. And, he is able to see and speak to the righteous dead, and they can see and speak to him. Do you take these details as being literal details about hell as well, or are you selective?

Mercury,

Just the fact that a name was mentioned shows us this was not a parable as many surmise. In the parables, Jesus never once mentioned a name of a person.

Yes, he was able to think, he was able to feel, see, hear, and I am sure he probably smelled the smoke as well.

Literal? Yes, I do believe hell and the torment associated with it is both literal and eternal.

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As to the righteous dead seeing the rich man in hell, it is very doubtful that is a true statement.

The Bible teaches that hell is a place of outer darkness. The rich man could see Lazarus in Abraham's bosom because Abraham and Lazarus were not in hell, not the hell of torment that the rich man was in. But they could not see in that place of darkness.

 

[webdog]

Yes, and he thought a literal bit of water would ease his torment. And, he is able to see and speak to the righteous dead, and they can see and speak to him. Do you take these details as being literal details about hell as well, or are you selective?

Something can be both symbolic and literal. My wedding ring symbolizes my marriage to my wife...and it's a literal object.

 

[xdisciplex]

But an interesting question would be wether unsaved people also have eternal life. Because the bible says those which trust in Jesus have eternal life. This sounds like all the unbelievers do not live eternally.
People which have this opinion also point at Genesis where God says this:

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

I have also asked myself what this means. Does this mean if they had eaten from this tree that their bodies would have become immortal? This is actually the only explanation if you believe that the souls are immortal.

 

[Mercury]

Something can be both symbolic and literal.

Sure. For instance, throwing something into the lake of fire symbolizes destruction, as we see from the way Death is thrown into the lake of fire, and Death is destroyed. Death is not a physical entity that can be tormented eternally, nor can Death literally give off eternal smoke. The bulk of Revelation is a symbolic vision given by Jesus to John. To take the symbols entirely literally distorts their meaning. The lake of fire is something real, but not entirely literal.

Elsewhere, Jesus describes the fate of the wicked in more prosaic terms. Jesus says that they will perish and be destroyed. Jesus says to fear God who can destroy body and soul in hell. Paul spoke of the wicked as those who are perishing; Peter said that their end was destruction, yet Jesus doesn't want anyone to perish, but rather to repent. Jesus says that eternal life is the gift of God to those who believe on him -- not something given to everyone. Adam and Eve were kicked out of Eden to prevent them from eating of the tree of life and becoming immortal; nowhere does the Bible contradict this and claim that some part of us has become immortal. We as believers will live forever because of the resurrection which is God's gift, not because of our inherent immortality.

I think it is a mistake to treat all that Jesus and others said in Scripture figuratively while trying to make a symbolic vision entirely literal.

Edit: I see xdisciplex just pointed out some of the same things. Our posts crossed.

 

[Mercury]

The Bible teaches that hell is a place of outer darkness.

Yes, hell is utter separation from the Light, who is God.

And since God is omnipresent and is the only source of life, that means...?

The rich man could see Lazarus in Abraham's bosom because Abraham and Lazarus were not in hell, not the hell of torment that the rich man was in. But they could not see in that place of darkness.

Which is it? The rich man could see Lazarus, or the rich man could not see at all because he was in darkness? If you can see something, then light is reaching your eyes. (Hence the problem with trying to take a story literally in ways it wasn't intended.)

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Yes, hell is utter separation from the Light, who is God.

And since God is omnipresent and is the only source of life, that means...?

Which is it? The rich man could see Lazarus, or the rich man could not see at all because he was in total darkness? If you can see something, then light is reaching your eyes. (Hence the problem with trying to take a story literally in ways it wasn't intended.)

Mercury, not necessarily. I can turn all the lights out in my house except a little light in my bedroom. My wife can stand at the entrance of the hallway in the house and not see anything but the little area that the night light shines on. She is still in the darkness. I have stood in the dark living room at night and she could not see me.

I am told that if one lights a match in the Arizona desert, it can be seen 50 miles away at night. They say it has been proven. Now, although the match could be seen at so great a distance away, the person who lit that match could not see the person 50 miles from that light.

 

[Mercury]

Mercury, not necessarily. I can turn all the lights out in my house except a little light in my bedroom. My wife can stand at the entrance of the hallway in the house and not see anything but the little area that the night light shines on. She is still in the darkness.

Yes, but not total darkness. She was in darkness relative to your bedroom, but some light was also reaching her, allowing her to see that room.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Again, I would disagree. My wife can stand in that bedroom and look toward me in the entrance to the hallway and not see me, Yet she is standing in the light.

 

[Blammo]

Two words - Abraham's Bosom

 

[Mercury]

Again, I would disagree. My wife can stand in that bedroom and look toward me in the entrance to the hallway and not see me, Yet she is standing in the light.

Are you suggesting that one can be in total darkness and still see things?

 

[Revmitchell]

And yet the question still reamains unanswered. Is xdisciple a born again believer in Jesus Christ?

This question is legitimate, and ignored. But deserves a yes or no answer. It is time to give an account of your self.

 

[gekko]

hell is utter separation from the Light, who is God.

well it may be true.

it is most certainly a rather useless most unbiblical christian cliche. i will explain later.

God bless.
gek.

 

[gekko]

revmitchell... he's already answered that in another thread.

 

[Revmitchell]

I see.:thumbs:

 

[BobRyan]

Some people argue that only satan and his demons will burn in hell forever and that the unbelievers will be destroyed in hell. This is what they call second death. The unbelievers stop to exist.
What do you think about this? Does second death mean that they are simply annihilated or does second death mean that you burn in hell forever?

Satan will ultiimately "be turned to ashes" as will the wicked of both angels and mankind.