Will vaccine division create party splits?

[canadyjd]

Perhaps it is disgusting, but it is true.

It should be a crime.

And there we come full circle. Criminalize private medical decisions: let the government have full control of your life from cradle to grave; the government makes all the decisions because we aren’t smart enough to know what’s good for us.

And when you open that door don’t be surprised by the beast that walks in.

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

 

[Revmitchell]

Perhaps it is disgusting, but it is true.

If one gets the COVID and are responsible for passing it to others, and have not taken the responsible actions that are FREE to the public, then it is just as egregious as knowingly passing on an STD.

It should be a crime.

you don’t deserve America

 

[JonC]

There is a fundamental difference though. One man encourages you to get the vaccine, the other attacks you and then forces it on you.

I was unaware anybody was forcing the vaccine on people. Who is being forced to take a vaccine?

 

[Reformed1689]

I was unaware anybody was forcing the vaccine on people. Who is being forced to take a vaccine?

Did you not hear the President the other night? President Biden Outlines Plan on Delta Variant and Vaccinations | C-SPAN.org

From President Biden's COVID-19 Plan | The White House

Building on the President’s announcement in July to strengthen safety requirements for unvaccinated federal workers, the President has signed an Executive Order to take those actions a step further and require all federal executive branch workers to be vaccinated. The President also signed an Executive Order directing that this standard be extended to employees of contractors that do business with the federal government. As part of this effort, the Department of Defense, the Department of Veterans Affairs, the Indian Health Service, and the National Institute of Health will complete implementation of their previously announced vaccination requirements that cover 2.5 million people.

 

[Revmitchell]

I was unaware anybody was forcing the vaccine on people. Who is being forced to take a vaccine?

this post just undermined anything else you have to say about covid. Good grief

 

[Reynolds]

I was unaware anybody was forcing the vaccine on people. Who is being forced to take a vaccine?

I guess No one Jon. By your standard forced would mean strapped down and jabbed.
That probably is coming.

 

[JonC]

Did you not hear the President the other night? President Biden Outlines Plan on Delta Variant and Vaccinations | C-SPAN.org

From President Biden's COVID-19 Plan | The White House

Building on the President’s announcement in July to strengthen safety requirements for unvaccinated federal workers, the President has signed an Executive Order to take those actions a step further and require all federal executive branch workers to be vaccinated. The President also signed an Executive Order directing that this standard be extended to employees of contractors that do business with the federal government. As part of this effort, the Department of Defense, the Department of Veterans Affairs, the Indian Health Service, and the National Institute of Health will complete implementation of their previously announced vaccination requirements that cover 2.5 million people.

No. I don't have any interest in watching President Biden.

But I did read (apparently an incomplete) summary about federal employees/contractors and Medicade/Medicare facilities having to be vaccinated if there is not a medical or religious reason not to (which is fine, they have always had conditions and it is under federal authority).

I read about the employers of 100 or more required to vaccine or test. I disagree with that (that falls under the State if they require a state license).

But I did not see anything about forced vaccinations.

I understand that this means .0076% of our population would be affected. But 75% are already vaccinated. So we are talking about .00190% of the population having to decide between job or complying with the requirements of their employer. Thus is not even taking unto consideration those with medical or religious exemptions.

Ultimately only .0019% of the population is affected. We have over 1,000 times more likely to get covid than to have to choose between our choice and employment requirement.

 

[JonC]

this post just undermined anything else you have to say about covid. Good grief

Your post is extraordinary dishonest to have been posted by a professing believer.

I have not read anything about forced vaccinations. I did not watch Biden (I've been at the beach all day).

 

[JonC]

I guess No one Jon. By your standard forced would mean strapped down and jabbed.
That probably is coming.

Well, that would certainly count as forcing.

I just don't know when our country became such pansies that they decide what their employer can and cannot require.

You want to see socialism? Look at the people demanding that employers cannot make rules for their employees.

That said, the federal government making private companies require vaccinations or test is definitely an abuse of power (I e., the norm for tge government).

 

[rlvaughn]

Perhaps it is disgusting, but it is true.

If one gets the COVID and are responsible for passing it to others, and have not taken the responsible actions that are FREE to the public, then it is just as egregious as knowingly passing on an STD.

It should be a crime.

I mentioned earlier in post # 28 that if your premise is true it works both ways. I would further assert if your premise is true then "it should be a crime" not to get the flu vaccine and pass on the flu to someone else. In fact, if you know are sick with anything -- cold, stomach bug, pink eye, etc. -- and pass it on to someone else, that is as bad as knowingly passing on an STD and it should be a crime, according to your premise. If not, why not?

 

[JonC]

I mentioned earlier in post # 28 that if your premise is true it works both ways. I would further assert if your premise is true then "it should be a crime" not to get the flu vaccine and pass on the flu to someone else. In fact, if you know are sick with anything -- cold, stomach bug, pink eye, etc. -- and pass it on to someone else, that is as bad as knowingly passing on an STD and it should be a crime, according to your premise. If not, why not?

It it not that cut and dry.

With HIV a person who does not disclose their status and infects another has committed a crime (see HIV nondisclosure).

The possibility is that a covid positive person who does not disclose their status and infects another person could be charged. It would have to be shown the covid positive person did not disclose their status and was in fact the source of the virus which did infect another. It would most likely also have to result in some permanent damage.

There is always the possibility that an infected person who refused to wear a mask and infected others could be guilty of neglect, I suppose.


This is like a grown up version of Mr. Roger's imagination game. Kinda fun.

 

[Reformed1689]

But I did not see anything about forced vaccinations.

You and I must understand force differently...

 

[JonC]

You and I must understand force differently...

Probably.

I am pro-employer when it comes to setting their own requirements. I am definitely not a union kinda guy.

When I worked at a Tritium facility a group of young hires walked off the job because electronic devices were prohibited.

You would say, I think, that they were forced to not have their cell phones. I see it as a requirement the employer established and within its authority. They were not forced, but they had to choose between their cell phones and their jobs.

 

[rlvaughn]

In post # 26 agedman did not say that one had to know that they were spreading covid -- just not taking advantage of the free vaccination and spreading covid should be a crime. There are logical consequences of taking such a position (though I have allowed you would have to know what you are doing; that is true of the STD example he gave). If someone wants to claim that causing others to get sick should be a crime, he needs to consider the consequences of what he is claiming should be so. How far are you willing to go, agedman?

 

[Reynolds]

Well, that would certainly count as forcing.

I just don't know when our country became such pansies that they decide what their employer can and cannot require.

You want to see socialism? Look at the people demanding that employers cannot make rules for their employees.

That said, the federal government making private companies require vaccinations or test is definitely an abuse of power (I e., the norm for tge government).

Let's take extremely orthodox Jews. It's OK with you to fire them for their religious belief?
I don't care what they doing in Israel. Here!
Amish? Mennonites?

 

[JonC]

Let's take extremely orthodox Jews. It's OK with you to fire them for their religious belief?
I don't care what they doing in Israel. Here!
Amish? Mennonites?

Who has said they would fire somebody for their religious beliefs?

The policy mandating vaccines for federal employees and contractors exempts people on the grounds of medical and religious reasons.

So the Amish guy working at his federal job does mot have to be vaccinated if it is against his religion (I'm not sure their view on vaccines). The Baptist who has a history of an allergy to vaccines (like my sister) is exempt.

 

[Reynolds]

Who has said they would fire somebody for their religious beliefs?

The policy mandating vaccines for federal employees and contractors exempts people on the grounds of medical and religious reasons.

So the Amish guy working at his federal job does mot have to be vaccinated if it is against his religion (I'm not sure their view on vaccines). The Baptist who has a history of an allergy to vaccines (like my sister) is exempt.

But the private mandate does not. Look at what has happened at American Airlines.

 

[Reformed1689]

Probably.

I am pro-employer when it comes to setting their own requirements. I am definitely not a union kinda guy.

When I worked at a Tritium facility a group of young hires walked off the job because electronic devices were prohibited.

You would say, I think, that they were forced to not have their cell phones. I see it as a requirement the employer established and within its authority. They were not forced, but they had to choose between their cell phones and their jobs.

Cell phones are hardly injecting something into your body. Apples and oranges.

 

[JonC]

But the private mandate does not. Look at what has happened at American Airlines.

What is THE private mandate? The federal plan (with the 100 or more employees) does have that provision.

I am not so sure the government should dictate to private companies how to run their business....they already do that too much.

 

[rlvaughn]

According to NPR, White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki "said there would be limited exemptions for religious or medical reasons" for Federal employees in Biden's six-point plan. However, when I searched the actual plan posted at WhiteHouse.gov, I did not find the words exempt, exemption, exception, religion, or religious. I did find the word "medical," but not in reference to exemptions. (I did a regular search, and also I Google search of the page. It might be possible I missed it, but I doubt the Google search would.)