Wine vs. Grapejuice @ Communion

[The Archangel]

..........going against SFICs preconceived opinion on the matter.

Yep...His is a perfect case of what happens when you let your presuppositions define what the Bible is saying rather than letting the Bible define your presuppositions. Sad indeed.

The Archangel

 

[dan e.]

The wine Christ made could not have been alcoholic in content,

I have a feeling you'll be disappointed on more than one issue in heaven if this is how you interpret the Bible.

 

[Dale-c]

Yep...His is a perfect case of what happens when you let your presuppositions define what the Bible is saying rather than letting the Bible define your presuppositions. Sad indeed.

The Archangel

I am not even sure this qualifies as eisegesis. More like pure twisting of scripture.
Perhaps that is too harsh?
I am not sure.

 

[The Archangel]

I am not even sure this qualifies as eisegesis. More like pure twisting of scripture.
Perhaps that is too harsh?
I am not sure.

It may be too harsh...I think the interpretation (if it can be rightly called that) is quite Pharisaical. Because he attempts to put people under bondage to his presuppositions rather than properly interpreting the Bible (where there is great freedom), it may not be too harsh.

I've asked him several times on many different threads to explain, if he is right, why does the OT command the Israelites to drink wine and strong drink literally "to the face of God" as an act of worship. So far no answer. Then again, regarding his position, how can you defend the indefensible?

See here:

22 “You shall tithe all the yield of your seed that comes from the field year by year. 23 And before the Lord your God, in the place that he will choose, to make his name dwell there, you shall eat the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and flock, that you may learn to fear the Lord your God always. 24 And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the Lord your God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the Lord your God chooses, to set his name there, 25 then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the Lord your God chooses 26 and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household. 27 And you shall not neglect the Levite who is within your towns, for he has no portion or inheritance with you. Deuteronomy 26:22-27 (Emphasis mine)

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

[Amy.G]

Apparently your pastor did not study the Word of God concerning the wedding feast, but some off the wall commentary. The pots of water were purification pots that people washed hands in. They were not for holding wine in at all.

I never said they were.

And my pastor does not use off the wall commentaries. He is solid in his teachings.

The wine Christ made could not have been alcoholic in content, else He would have been putting something in front of others that could cause them to stumble.

Not if it was made in the way that I described.

How sad people have to accuse the Savior, the Spotless and Sinless Son of God, of putting that poison the Word of God condemns to another's lips.

I do not accuse Christ of any sin. That is what the Pharisees did.

 

[dan e.]

No need in trying to defend the indefensible...let's just sit back and...

 

[Jerome]

Did you know that now they make dealcoholized wine? Some old ladies at my church tried to get us to switch to that, but I told them off. Don't they know that alcohol is the most important thing about communion? We now use fortified wine-Thunderbird or Night Train-to be more spiritual.:saint:

 

[Linda64]

I have a feeling you'll be disappointed on more than one issue in heaven if this is how you interpret the Bible.

There will be no disappointments in heaven....in heaven we will be perfect. There won't even be alcohol in heaven....

 

[dan e.]

There will be no disappointments in heaven....in heaven we will be perfect. There won't even be alcohol in heaven....

Amen sister....amen.

 

[webdog]

There will be no disappointments in heaven....in heaven we will be perfect. There won't even be alcohol in heaven....

Then you have issues with Isaiah 25:6 which is clearly alcholic.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Isaiah is dealing with the Millenial Kingdom, not the eternal Kingdom.

Also, well aged does not necessarily mean alcoholic. The wine found in Herod's fortress at Masada had been sealed up for approximately 100 years and was still as fresh as the day it was put in the fortress.

I would say 100 years is well aged.

Have you ever looked at the word 'refined' in that verse you so love to quote? It means strained or filtered; purged or purified. Straining was one of the methods used during Bible times to keep wine from fermenting as recorded by Pliny and his contemporaries.

The wine in Isaiah 25:6 is not alcoholic at all. It is pure of the poison that Scripture warns against.

 

[Linda64]

Then you have issues with Isaiah 25:6 which is clearly alcholic.

You are the one with the issues...that verse is NOT speaking about heaven...it is speaking of the EARTHLY millennial kingdom. This is NOT the eternal kingdom. There will be NO alcohol in the eternal kingdom.

 

[webdog]

You are the one with the issues...that verse is NOT speaking about heaven...it is speaking of the EARTHLY millennial kingdom. This is NOT the eternal kingdom. There will be NO alcohol in the eternal kingdom.

So Christ living WITH man is not Heaven?!? It is the beginning of Heaven! I can't believe you would think the MK is NOT Heaven

 

[webdog]

Isaiah is dealing with the Millenial Kingdom, not the eternal Kingdom.

Also, well aged does not necessarily mean alcoholic. The wine found in Herod's fortress at Masada had been sealed up for approximately 100 years and was still as fresh as the day it was put in the fortress.

I would say 100 years is well aged.

Have you ever looked at the word 'refined' in that verse you so love to quote? It means strained or filtered; purged or purified. Straining was one of the methods used during Bible times to keep wine from fermenting as recorded by Pliny and his contemporaries.

The wine in Isaiah 25:6 is not alcoholic at all. It is pure of the poison that Scripture warns against.

Only you could say the "wines on the lees well refined" is not alcoholic. I don't know why I responded to this, as that is so ludicrous it is not worthy a response.

 

[Linda64]

So Christ living WITH man is not Heaven?!? It is the beginning of Heaven! I can't believe you would think the MK is NOT Heaven

I don't know why you would think that the Millennial Kingdom (when Christ will rule and reign from David's throne in the earthly Jerusalem) would be heaven.

Do you not believe that the Lord Jesus Christ will return to the earth....do you not believe in the Second Coming of Christ to this earth to set up the Millennial Kingdom He promised Israel?

 

[JerryL]

Did you know that now they make dealcoholized wine? Some old ladies at my church tried to get us to switch to that, but I told them off. Don't they know that alcohol is the most important thing about communion? We now use fortified wine-Thunderbird or Night Train-to be more spiritual.:saint:

What's the word?..........Thunderbird. What's the price?....... 50 cents twice. :laugh:

 

[webdog]

I don't know why you would think that the Millennial Kingdom (when Christ will rule and reign from David's throne in the earthly Jerusalem) would be heaven.

Do you not believe that the Lord Jesus Christ will return to the earth....do you not believe in the Second Coming of Christ to this earth to set up the Millennial Kingdom He promised Israel?

I believe all of that...I believe when Christ calls me home, at that moment Heaven begins for me. When I return WITH Christ as He sets up His kingdom, Heaven continues. It's unheard of to think that believers in their new bodies living with Christ eternally can be anything but Heaven. God has decided He will live with man...here...on earth. That is Heaven. The "wine on the lees well refined" will be served by our God, and there is NOTHING poisonous or sinful about it!

 

[Joe]

Did you know that now they make dealcoholized wine? Some old ladies at my church tried to get us to switch to that, but I told them off. Don't they know that alcohol is the most important thing about communion? We now use fortified wine-Thunderbird or Night Train-to be more spiritual.:saint:

Here's some wine that appears better for you.

It advertises itself as the no headache wine (or close to it) and will offer a refund if it doesn't live up to its name.


http://www.theorganicwinecompany.com/

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The "wine on the lees well refined" will be served by our God, and there is NOTHING poisonous or sinful about it!

That's right, because it won't be alcoholic.

 

[webdog]

That's right, because it won't be alcoholic.

Lees...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lees_(fermentation)

Deny the truth.