Magnetic Poles
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Oh no. Looks like we got us another alkeehall thread. Not again. Please! Make it stop!
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wine
- Thread starter IAMWEAK_2007
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standingfirminChrist
New Member
[FONT="]In all the passages where good wine is named, there is no [/FONT]
[FONT="]lisp of warning, no intimations of danger, no hint of disapprobation, but always of decided approval. How bold and strongly marked is the contrast:[/FONT]
[FONT="]The one the cause of intoxication, of violence, and of [/FONT][FONT="]woes.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The other the occasion of comfort and of peace.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The one the cause of irreligion and of self-destruction.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The other the devout offering of piety on the altar of God.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The one the symbol of the divine wrath.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The other the symbol of spiritual blessings.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The one the emblem of eternal damnation.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The other the emblem of eternal salvation.[/FONT]
[FONT="]"The distinction in quality between the good and the bad [/FONT][FONT="]wine is as clear as that between good and bad men, or good and [/FONT][FONT="]bad wives, or good and bad spirits; for one is the constant [/FONT][FONT="]subject of warning, designated poison literally, analogically, and figuratively, while the other is commended as refreshing and [/FONT][FONT="]innocent, which no alcoholic wine is." —Lees' Appendix, p. 232[/FONT]
[FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]Can it be that these blessings and curses refer to the same beverage, and that an intoxicating liquor? Does the trumpet give a certain or an uncertain sound? Says Rev. Dr. Nott: can the same thing, in the same state, be good and bad; a symbol of wrath, and a symbol of mercy; a thing to be sought after, and a thing to be avoided? Certainly not. And is the Bible, then, inconsistent with itself? No, certainly." -- Nott London, Ed. p. 48[/FONT]
[FONT="]"Bible Wines" by William Patton pp. 63-64
[/FONT]
[FONT="]lisp of warning, no intimations of danger, no hint of disapprobation, but always of decided approval. How bold and strongly marked is the contrast:[/FONT]
[FONT="]The one the cause of intoxication, of violence, and of [/FONT][FONT="]woes.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The other the occasion of comfort and of peace.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The one the cause of irreligion and of self-destruction.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The other the devout offering of piety on the altar of God.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The one the symbol of the divine wrath.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The other the symbol of spiritual blessings.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The one the emblem of eternal damnation.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The other the emblem of eternal salvation.[/FONT]
[FONT="]"The distinction in quality between the good and the bad [/FONT][FONT="]wine is as clear as that between good and bad men, or good and [/FONT][FONT="]bad wives, or good and bad spirits; for one is the constant [/FONT][FONT="]subject of warning, designated poison literally, analogically, and figuratively, while the other is commended as refreshing and [/FONT][FONT="]innocent, which no alcoholic wine is." —Lees' Appendix, p. 232[/FONT]
[FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]Can it be that these blessings and curses refer to the same beverage, and that an intoxicating liquor? Does the trumpet give a certain or an uncertain sound? Says Rev. Dr. Nott: can the same thing, in the same state, be good and bad; a symbol of wrath, and a symbol of mercy; a thing to be sought after, and a thing to be avoided? Certainly not. And is the Bible, then, inconsistent with itself? No, certainly." -- Nott London, Ed. p. 48[/FONT]
[FONT="]"Bible Wines" by William Patton pp. 63-64
[/FONT]
standingfirminChrist
New Member
webdog said:
3 months have passed and it hasn't yet.
Pliny records this same method of preserving the juice of the grape being non-alcoholic for a year at a time.
saturneptune
New Member
I'll drink to that.npetreley said:
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standingfirminChrist
New Member
God's Word commands abstinence and that settles it whether you want to believe it or not.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
annsni said:
Proverbs 23:31 clearly commands abstinence. It is talking about fermented wine... sparkling and bubbling in the cup. The command is Look thou not... do not have any experience with it.
And that is where the Amen truly belongs... whether you want to agree or not.
UnchartedSpirit
New Member
There are no physical enjoyments in God's laws...everybody used to know that!
It clearly commands against drunkeness in those verses not abstinence. Like the poster above stated, the sides won't change why not drop it? You drink your juice and the wine drinkers won't judge you if you promise to do the same.standingfirminChrist said:
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standingfirminChrist
New Member
I will drink my juice and we'll let the Word of God judge the wine drinkers.
It clearly commands abstinence, not moderation.
It clearly commands abstinence, not moderation.
IAMWEAK_2007
Member
can anyone here figure out how that wine taste on John 2:10,
"Joh 2:10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now. "
in my understanding looks like the wine that they normally drink is the same wine in terms of its taste that jesus made i.e. water into wine
another word I want to understand here is the word DRUNK
it also looks like to me, that it's their culture to have wine on such occasions
I'm also curious why GOD who became flesh, include this miracle on the BOOK, and what could be the message?
"Joh 2:10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now. "
in my understanding looks like the wine that they normally drink is the same wine in terms of its taste that jesus made i.e. water into wine
another word I want to understand here is the word DRUNK
it also looks like to me, that it's their culture to have wine on such occasions
I'm also curious why GOD who became flesh, include this miracle on the BOOK, and what could be the message?
Sopranette
New Member
Drunk in this case would be past tense of drink in old English, although it is an adjective these days, not a verb.
love,
Sopranette
love,
Sopranette
standingfirminChrist said:
This isn't as strong a warning against all alcoholic consumption as some think. If God had left it at the part you quoted, I would agree, but He didn't.
Those who quote this verse in support of teetotaling invariably leave out the text before and after, where it is clearly talking about people who "linger long over wine" and are experiencing the effects of drinking too much wine. Proverbs is a book of common sense... And the common sense application here is that if alcohol controls you, you should stay far away from it. Even "the world" understands this, as a recovering alcoholic will tell you that they don't trust themselves with even one drink.
When you put this verse in context, you can see the harmony with other parts in Scripture--silence regarding "moderate" alcohol consumption, but strong warning against drunkenness.
You'd drink to anything, right?? :laugh:saturneptune said:I'll drink to that.
However, some threads can and do make some of us want to :BangHead:
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[Forum format won't let me get in more than four "smilies" at a time. (Nor does it keep some posts from disappearing, either!)] {rolleyes!}
Ed
saturneptune
New Member
All joking aside, I do not drink. It is not because I think that Jesus did not drink wine, or that the Bible says abstain. It is because Romans 12:1 convicts me not to in relation to being an example, as it offends a lot of people. Also, some people have no business drinking. It is quite apparant that includes me from experience during the Navy days.EdSutton said:You'd drink to anything, right?? :laugh:
However, some threads can and do make some of us want to :BangHead:
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does help ease the headache, a bit. {laugh!} {laugh!}
[Forum format won't let me get in more than four "smilies" at a time. (Nor does it keep some posts from disappearing, either!)] {rolleyes!}
Ed
Having said all of that, I have no quarrel with those who drink in moderation, and it does affect their or their families life, and they are keeping their weaker brother in mind.
saturneptune said:
My thoughts exactly...
Just because we have liberties, we should use wisdom in exercising them.
Romans 14:1-7 The Weak and the Strong
Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. (2) One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. (3) The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. (4) Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. (5) One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. (6) He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. (7) For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone.
this place cracks me up! 10 pages of posts in under 24 hours...new record?
Jesus drank wine. He ate rancid meat too, and hung out with prostitutes, pimps, druggies, gamblers, gluttons, and probably was on a first name basis with every bartender in Jerusalem...nothing wrong with that either.
If for no other reason we read in the accounts of the Last Supper that Jesus took the cup of wine (which was required by Jewish tradition at the Passover table) and blessed it (Jesus gave thanks for wine) than we gave it (handed out wine) to His disciples and drank it (consumed it.) You can check the accounts in Matthew 26:26-30; Mark 14:22-26; and Luke 22:14-20.
If one cross references the Jewish Passover feast with the instructions from the Old Testament (which all Jews would have followed to the letter of Law...no pun intended) and Talmud we see is Christ clearly is using real wine (with at least a 20 proof vintage), so let's not get fussy about it and say okay that's cool. You can't get around the force of the language of the Bible, particularly the passages listed above and here, that Jesus drank wine.
Why is it that we Baptists are so teetotalist? Imbibe my brethren!
Jesus drank wine. He ate rancid meat too, and hung out with prostitutes, pimps, druggies, gamblers, gluttons, and probably was on a first name basis with every bartender in Jerusalem...nothing wrong with that either.
If for no other reason we read in the accounts of the Last Supper that Jesus took the cup of wine (which was required by Jewish tradition at the Passover table) and blessed it (Jesus gave thanks for wine) than we gave it (handed out wine) to His disciples and drank it (consumed it.) You can check the accounts in Matthew 26:26-30; Mark 14:22-26; and Luke 22:14-20.
If one cross references the Jewish Passover feast with the instructions from the Old Testament (which all Jews would have followed to the letter of Law...no pun intended) and Talmud we see is Christ clearly is using real wine (with at least a 20 proof vintage), so let's not get fussy about it and say okay that's cool. You can't get around the force of the language of the Bible, particularly the passages listed above and here, that Jesus drank wine.
Why is it that we Baptists are so teetotalist? Imbibe my brethren!
preachinjesus said:
Because we have put our cultural tradiotions above what the Bible says...
Here is where this cultural tradition came from...
When the Agricultural age was nearing an end, and the Industrial age was beginning, more men found they had too much time on their hands... and spent more time in the bars.
Families were neglected, Children abused, wives abused, and pay checks spent on booze.
This got a reaction from the Christians to support teetotalism...
Women became very vocal, and within a few decades prohibition was established.
Ever since then, especially in the traditional Southern USA (where most of this type of thinking occured) Baptists, and Pentecostals have been very vocal against Alcohol.
To the point that they have distorted Scripture to prove their point.
When you remove your cultural biases you can clearly read scripture in the correct context. I know, I grew up that all alcohol was bad, not to even smell it! But when I matured and started believing the Bible, and not what tradition says, I was confronted with this truth.
BTW, I am still waiting for an answer to my 2 questions...
1) Where is oinos translated Juice
2) Why are deacons not supposed to drink too much wine (juice as some propose)
Would someone please answer these questions.
OH, here is a third question... sorta related...
3) How were the Corinthians getting drunk at communion, if they were using just juice?
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