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Wise and Foolish Virgins

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by J. Jump, Jul 9, 2006.

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  1. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    The virgins did not trim their lamps until after they woke up. Nowhere does the scripture say the lamps were trimmed before they heard the shout that, 'The Bridegroom Cometh.'

    The lamps were torches which consisted of a bowl on top of a stick. Trimming the lamps consisted of dipping a cloth in the oil and putting said cloth in the bowl and lighting it.

    In a Jewish wedding feast, which always took place in the evening hours, the lamps were never lit until the bridesmaids heard the shout, 'The Bridegroom Cometh.'

    The fact is the foolish did not take oil to light that cloth when it was needed, but the wise carried the oil with them to be used at such time as was needed.
     
    #61 standingfirminChrist, Jul 10, 2006
  2. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    Yes it does. They had their lamps, which had oil in them. And then they also took oil in a separate container. That means they had oil and then took extra oil to be prepared.
     
    #62 J. Jump, Jul 10, 2006
  3. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    Again the text not only doesn't state that, but doesn't even insinuate that.
     
    #63 J. Jump, Jul 10, 2006
  4. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    SFIC. do you have your reference material stating that information about the jewish lamps and all that?

    i'd like to view it for myself...
     
    #64 gekko, Jul 10, 2006
  5. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    Show me the scripture that says the lamps had oil in them. I have yet to see it.
     
    #65 standingfirminChrist, Jul 10, 2006
  6. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    J.Jump was referring to the wise virgins lamps...
     
    #66 gekko, Jul 10, 2006
  7. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    taken from http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/sg2375.htm
     
    #67 standingfirminChrist, Jul 10, 2006
  8. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    thats some interesting detail. thank you SFIC.
     
    #68 gekko, Jul 10, 2006
  9. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    Show me where it says it doesn't. They did not take oil with them does not say they didn't have oil in their lamp. Again that is a direct comparison to the wise who also took oil in a separate container.

    To say that both groups left out with oil-less lamps is reading into Scripture that which is not there.

    Look at the very last verse of the passage: "Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.

    He's talking to saved individuals and telling them to be ready. They need to be ready because if they are not they are going to experience the same thing the foolish virigins did, not because they were unsaved, but because they weren't ready.

    There's nothing in that passage that supports your view.

    Your belief that these were lost and saved is destroyed in the very next parable. The man called his slaves together. And at the end of the parable we see that some were faithful and some were unfaithful just like the virgins. Not some saved and some unsaved.

    Again there is nothing in this entire passage that supports your view. Nothing.
     
    #69 J. Jump, Jul 10, 2006
  10. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    There was another site that I found last night which explained the Jewish Ceremonies and had greater detail, but I cannot find it. Will continue searching.

    But John MacArthur certainly did some research on this. I have run across many pages that say the torch was not lit until after the cry was heard.

    The Bridegroom always came as 'a thief in the night' unannounced. It would be foolish to constantly burn the oil as opposed to keeping the supply ready for the call.
     
    #70 standingfirminChrist, Jul 10, 2006
  11. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    that scripture... where is that where it talks about the Lord coming as a thief in the night?

    cause He only comes as a thief in the night to those who are unsaved.
     
    #71 gekko, Jul 10, 2006
  12. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    SFIC

    Well done:thumbs: I predict it will not change their minds, however, they are still shown to be incorrect and at odds with scripture once again. Perhaps one day the house of sand which this theology of dispensation is built upon will be totally washed away with God's Word.
    peace to you:praise:
     
    #72 canadyjd, Jul 10, 2006
  13. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    the house built on sand does not represent saved people. its unsaved people.
    ---

    that in response to:
     
    #73 gekko, Jul 10, 2006
  14. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    It's actually a thief in the night to those that are unprepared, not unsaved, which is exactly what this passage is dealing with. Preparedness not salvation.

    Nothing has been shown to make this a correct statement and actually the statement could be turned directly around and applied to you and those that think like you.

    Wonder why it hasn't washed away yet? I guess that's because it's built on the Firm Foundation of God's Scripture!

    Once again just because you don't see it doesn't mean it is incorrect.
     
    #74 J. Jump, Jul 10, 2006
  15. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Well, I certainly cannot pronounce anyone saved or unsaved. That was not my point. My point was that dispensational theology cannot stand the scrutiny of scripture. My hope is that God's Word will finally convince those caught up in it that there are too many problems to maintain that belief.

    peace to you:praise:
     
    #75 canadyjd, Jul 10, 2006
  16. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    This is what the infallible inerrant John MacArthur said (at least that is the way some of his followers treat him). He said APPARENTELY. He didn't even make his statement a matter of fact, but a matter of assumption.

    John MacArthur "thinks" this is what happens, but doesn't know for sure. What it boils down to is John MacArthur is reading into the text just like the others on this board, because without reading into the text his false teaching of Lordship salvation falls. And goodness knows we can't admit to people that something we have believed in for some many years is actually incorrect.
     
    #76 J. Jump, Jul 10, 2006
  17. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    Not only can it stand the scrutiny of Scripture, but it is the only one that can. You have shown nothing to make it false.
     
    #77 J. Jump, Jul 10, 2006
  18. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    Sudden destruction does not come to the saved, but to the unsaved. He comes as a thief in the night to the unsaved. We are children of the light.
     
    #78 standingfirminChrist, Jul 10, 2006
  19. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    concerning the thief in the night.
    ---

    is is thessalonians that talks about it?

    it says that to us that know Christ - we know He is coming back.

    but to those that dont know Christ - they dont know He's coming back.

    and because they dont know He's coming back - when He does come back it will seem like He is coming like a thief in the night because they had no clue he was coming.

    read that passage over again. when you find it. could you post it? cause im at school.
     
    #79 gekko, Jul 10, 2006
  20. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    Didn't know this... Well this adds a lot if the tradition dictated to not light the lamp and until they received word of the bride grooms arrival.

    So where does this leave us SFIC? Does this mean the foolish were not saved to begin with since they never had the holy spirit? (oil for lamp)
     
    #80 LeBuick, Jul 10, 2006
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