Women are Not to Teach or Usurp Authority...

[David Lamb]

Neither men nor women are to use their position to dominate the people they are over.

A quote from Deacons post #28

"but the teaching in which women were engaged was characterised by an overbearing attitude. In other words, the quiet demeanour and recognition of authority which are to characterise the learner are contrasted with teaching in a manner which is heavy-handed and abuses authority. αὐθεντεῖν as a reference to ‘authority’ (leadership) unrelated to teaching would exceed the scope of the discussion initiated at v. 11. It is, therefore, more likely that the verb characterises the nature of the teaching rather than the role of the women in church leadership in general" Marshall, I. Howard, and Philip H. Towner. 2004. A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the Pastoral Epistles. International Critical Commentary. London; New York: T&T Clark International.

The restriction is not who can preach but rather their attitude when they do so.

I would just say that I was not addressing the matter of who should preach, but answering Deacon and Ben1445. Deacon had written:

"Therefore, women should not be placed in such a position to dominate over men."

Ben1445 replied:

"i.e. not pastors."

So I replied as I did, saying that according to Scripture, pastors and elders are not to dominate over the flock.

 

[Silverhair]

So I replied as I did, saying that according to Scripture, pastors and elders are not to dominate over the flock.

And I agree. Actually no pastor is to dominate over their flock.

So what Paul was saying applies to both men and women pastors.

 

[Kai]

So what Paul was saying applies to both men and women pastors.

Paul focuses specifically on men when he outlines the requirements for pastoral leadership and describes men who care for their congregations. Setting aside any assumptions about the culture during that time, and relying solely on Scripture, are there any biblical instances where women fulfill these identical roles in that same context?

The answer should be either yes or no.

 

[Silverhair]

Paul focuses specifically on men when he outlines the requirements for pastoral leadership and describes men who care for their congregations. Setting aside any assumptions about the culture during that time, and relying solely on Scripture, are there any biblical instances where women fulfill these identical roles in that same context?

The answer should be either yes or no.

You cannot ignore the time and culture if you want to actually understand what Paul was dealing with and what he meant.

to exercise authority over αὐθεντεῖν authentein G831

G831
αὐθεντέω
authenteō
1x: to have authority over, domineer, 1Ti_2:12. Mounce

to use or exercise authority or power over as an autocrat, to domineer (1Ti_2:12). The Complete WordStudy Dictionary

one who acts on his own authority, autocratic, equivalent to αὐτοκράτωρ an absolute master; Thayer's Unabridged Greek

1. one who with his own hands kills another or himself
2. one who acts on his own authority, autocratic
3. an absolute master
4. to govern, exercise dominion over one Combined Strong's & Brown-Driver-Briggs

Paul was saying that he would not allow a woman to be autocrat, to domineer, exercise dominion over the flock. The same would apply to any man who was a pastor also.

It is only because of the misuse of the text that we have a particular theological view that women cannot be a pastor of a church.
The text does not support their view and they should know better.

 

[Kai]

You cannot ignore the time and culture if you want to actually understand what Paul was dealing with and what he meant.

The time and culture are irrelevant. If indeed you call yourself a Protestant, you have to be consistent with that, which means your beliefs can't be shaped by anything outside of Scripture alone.

to exercise authority over αὐθεντεῖν authentein G831

It seems that you're attempting to use "authority" in the same way cult leaders do, having absolute control over every aspect of their followers' lives. If that's what you mean, then yes, neither a man nor a woman should behave that way in the church. So that doesn't help your case.

The biblical meaning of "authority" is quite different:

Hebrews 13:17 (ESV)
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

The burden of proof still lies with you to demonstrate from the Bible that the leaders we are expected to willingly and joyfully submit to should include not only qualified men but also women.