Women in Ministry

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I still am utmost uneasy listening to a woman-preacher from behind a pulpit though. I'll never change for that matter, and never will have to - I believe - answer to God for.

 

[D28guy]

Greetings,

OF COURSE women can be in ministry.

I have no problem whatsoever with women being in ministry, being an evangelist, women teaching both men and women behind the pulpit in bible classes, women being co-pastors or even possibly the pastor of a bible believing conservative evangelical or pentecostal church.

Why? Because it is as scriptural as can be.

There is an abundance of evidence in the scriptures to support all of this, with the link in the opening post containing much of it.

And believe me, I am no ultra-liberal...nor even a liberal...period. I am a bible believing evangelical who, sadly, considers most of the liberal christian groups to be filled with almost as much error and the false teaching as church of Rome.

At my fellowship, we have 2 co-pastors who are both men, and our deacons are men. But we have 2 or 3 women who are prophets. (no particular reason they are women, they could just as well be men. They just happen to be women.) They prophesy only as God leads of course. Nothing is scheduled. But its wonderful when they do.

God bless,

Mike

 

[D28guy]

By the way, in adition to the excellant material in the link from the opening post, there is also the "elect lady" and her "children" in 2 John.

Many are of the scriptural conviction that the lady being adressed is the pastor of that fellowship, and the "children" is referring to her congregation.

I'm sort of undecided on it...but its a possibility.

Mike

 

[annsni]

It is without question that God uses both men and women for His glory - but since the Scripture is clear that women are not to teach or have authority over men, then women cannot teach or have authority over men. Can women teach well? Yes. But does that make it right? No. Pastors and deacons are to be men as Scripture says.

 

[gekko]

but since the Scripture is clear that women are not to teach or have authority over men, then women cannot teach or have authority over men.

it's not really clear if it doesn't say it specifically though is it?

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

Question: Are there Baptist churches with women pastors, women teachers or women deacons?

Just wondering.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Question: Are there Baptist churches with women pastors, women teachers or women deacons?

Just wondering.

Yes. The church I am a member of is Baptist and we have had three women ministers. Several Baptist churches where I was a member in the past have women deacons. Two are in Virginia and two are in Maryland.

 

[annsni]

it's not really clear if it doesn't say it specifically though is it?

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. (1 Timothy 2:12-13)

 

[gekko]

For Adam was formed first, then Eve.

like i asked before..

what does this have anything to do with women teaching and not having authority over men?

 

[annsni]

like i asked before..

what does this have anything to do with women teaching and not having authority over men?

Apparently a lot!

 

[gekko]

well.. it's just like saying.

i'm not going to go grocery shopping because white tigers are almost extinct.

 

[D28guy]

Regarding women in ministry, and in positions of authority, the following excerpts are taken from the General Council of the Assemblies of God website.

Hopefully this will help to enlighten all of us regarding the biblical justification for women to be free to speak in church, minister, and be in positions of leadership and authority.....

(again, these are excerpts. Click the link for the whole document)

"A Biblical Survey of the Role of Women in Ministry

Of primary importance in defining the scriptural role of women in ministry is the biblical meaning of "ministry". Of Christ our great model, it was said, "For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many" (Mark 10:45). New Testament leadership, as modeled by Jesus, portrays the spiritual leader as a servant. The question of human authority is not of primary significance, though it naturally arises as organization and structure develop

"Biblical Examples of Women in Ministry"


Old Testament history includes accounts of strong female leadership. Miriam was a prophet, one of the triumvirate of leaders God sent to Israel during the Exodus period (Exodus 15:20). Deborah, as prophet and judge, led the army of the Lord into successful combat (Judges 4 to 5). Huldah, also a prophet, authenticated the scroll of the Law found in the temple and helped spark the great religious reform in the days of Josiah (2 Kings 22; 2 Chronicles 34).

The New Testament also records ministering women in the Church Age. Tabitha (Dorcas) is called a disciple and had a ministry of helps (Acts 9:36). Philip had four virgin daughters who prophesied (Act s 21:8,9). Euodia and Syntyche were Paul's coworkers who shared in his struggle to spread the gospel (Philippians 4:2,3). Priscilla was another of Paul's exemplary "fellow workers in Christ Jesus" (Romans 16:3,4, NIV). In Romans 16, Paul greets a multitude of ministering persons, a large number of them women.

Phoebe, a leader in the church at Cenchrea, was highly commended to the church at Rome by Paul (Romans 16:1,2). Unfortunately, biases of modern English translators have sometimes obscured Phoebe's position of leadership, calling her a "servant" or "helper", etc. Yet Phoebe was "diakonos" of the church at Cenchrea. Paul often used this term for a minister or leader of a congregation and applied it specifically to Jesus Christ, Tychicus, Epaphras, Timothy, and to his own ministry. Depending on the context, diakonos is usually translated "deacon" or "minister." Though some translators have chose n the word deaconess (because Phoebe was a woman), such a distinction is not in the original Greek. It seems likely that diakonos was the designation for an official leadership position in the Early Church.

Junia was identified by Paul as an apostle (Romans 16:7). But many translators and scholars, unwilling to admit there could have been a female apostle, have since the 13th century masculinized her name to Junias. The biblical record shows that Paul was a strong advocate of women's ministry.

The instances of women filling leadership roles in the Bible should be taken as a divinely approved pattern, not as exceptions to divine decrees. Even a limited number of women with scripturally commended leadership roles should affirm that God does indeed call women to spiritual leadership.



If Peter found certain statements by Paul hard to understand (2 Peter 3:16), then it is no surprise that we, who are removed by 1900 additional years of history, would share his struggle in interpreting some Pauline passages. And we, like Peter (2 Peter 3:15), must respect and love our brothers and sisters who hold alternative interpretations on issues that are not critical to our salvation or standing before God. We only request that those interpretations be expressed and practiced in love and consideration for all of God's children, both men and women......

First Corinthians 11:3-12

The statement that "the man is the head of the woman" has for centuries been used to justify the practice of male superiority and to exclude women from spiritual leadership. Two alternative translations for kephale ("head"), debated widely by contemporary evangelical scholars, are (1) "authority over" and (2) "source" or "origin." Both meanings can be found in literature of Paul's time.

Taking the passage as a whole, the second meaning fits as well as or better than the first meaning, leading to the summary statement of verse 12: "As the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things [are] of God." Even the relationship between the eternal Son and the Father--"the head of Christ is God" (11:3)--fits better as "source" than "authority over" (cf. John 8 :42). Without attempting to resolve this debate, we do not find sufficient evidence in "kephale" to deny leadership roles to women (in light of biblical examples of women in positions of spiritual authority, and in light of the whole counsel of Scripture).

First Corinthians 14:34-36

There are only two passages in the entire New Testament which might seem to contain a prohibition against the ministry of women (1 Corinthians 14:34 and 1 Timothy 2:12). Since these must be placed along side Paul's other statements and practices, they can hardly be absolute, unequivocal prohibitions of the ministry of women. Instead, they seem to be teachings dealing with specific, local problems that needed correction.

There are various interpretations of what Paul was limiting when he said, "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak" (14:34). Options include (1) chatter in public services, (2) ecstatic disruptions, (3) certain authoritative ministries (such as judging prophecies), and (4) asking questions during the service. Yet, Paul does allow women to pray and prophesy in the corporate service (1 Corinthians 11:5).

Although we may not solve all the difficulties of this chapter, we do conclude that this passage does not prohibit female leadership, but like the rest of the chapter, it admonishes that "all things be done decently and in order" (1 Corinthians 14:40).

First Timothy 2:11-15


From the above survey of passages on exemplary women in ministry, it is clear that Paul recognized the ministry of women. Yet there were some obvious problems concerning women in Ephesus. They were evidently given to immodest apparel and adornment (1 Timothy 2:9). The younger widows "learn to be idle,... and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not" (1 Timothy 5:13). In his second letter to Timothy, Paul warned against depraved persons (possibly including women) who manipulated "weak-willed", or "gullible", women (2 Timothy 3:6, NIV)

A reading of the entire passage of 1 Timothy 2:9-15 strongly suggests that Paul was giving Timothy advice about dealing with some heretical teachings and practices involving women in the church at Ephesus. The heresy may have been so serious that he had to say about the Ephesian women, "I am not allowing women to teach or have authority over a man."

But we know from other passages that such an exclusion was not normative in Paul's ministry.


Galatians 3:28

Those who oppose allowing women to hold positions of spiritual leadership must place contextual limitations on Galatians 3:28. "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

Some interpreters restrict the meaning of this triad to salvation by faith or oneness in Christ. That truth is certainly articulated throughout Scripture. Yet the verse carries a ring of universal application for all our relationships, not just an assurance that anyone can come to Christ. "Neither Jew nor Greek.... neither bond nor free... neither male nor female"--these are basic relationship principles to which faithful followers of Christ must give highest priority.

The God of the Bible has "no respect of persons" (Romans 2:11; cf. also 2 Samuel 14:14; 2 Chronicles 19:7; Acts 10:34; Ephesians 6:9). He calls whom He will and gives gifts and ministries as He chooses; man must not put limitations on divine prerogatives. In Christ we are truly set free from sin and its curse, which separate from God and elevate or demean according to race, social standing, or gender.

Therefore We Conclude

After examining the various translations and interpretations of biblical passages relating to the role of women in the first-century church, and desiring to apply biblical principles to contemporary church practice, we conclude that we cannot find convincing evidence that the ministry of women is restricted according to some sacred or immutable principle.


The Assemblies of God has been blessed and must continue to be blessed by the ministry of God's gifted and commissioned daughters. To the degree that we are convinced of our Pentecostal distinctives--that it is God who divinely calls and supernaturally anoints for ministry--we must continue to be open to the full use of women's gifts in ministry and spiritual leadership.

As we look on the fields ripe for harvest, may we not be guilty of sending away any of the reapers God calls. Let us entrust to these women of God the sacred sickle, and with our sincerest blessings thrust them out into the whitened fields.

http://www.ag.org/top/Beliefs/position_papers/pp_4191_women_ministry.cfm

God bless,

Mike

 

[webdog]

Why should the AG hold any kind of authority, particularly when Scripture states one must be the husband of one wife?

 

[Crabtownboy]

Why should the AG hold any kind of authority, particularly when Scripture states one must be the husband of one wife?

Obviously because it is talking about the requirement for men. [By the way Paul does not quality, or so it seems.] A woan in that day and time could not divorce her husband, so obviously she could only have one husband. Now if he died and she remarried ... that is if some man married her .... she still would have only one husband. But in that society as women were held in very low regard by most that a similiar requirement for women would never have entered their heads. So the verse is not a proof text for men only. :tonofbricks:

 

[webdog]

I'm sorry, but the Scripture is not talking about the requirements for men. It is talking about the requirements for an elder...leaders in the church. This requirement is for leadership to be men with no exceptions.

 

[Crabtownboy]

I'm sorry, but the Scripture is not talking about the requirements for men. It is talking about the requirements for an elder...leaders in the church. This requirement is for leadership to be men with no exceptions.

Yes, for male elders.

 

[webdog]

Yes, for male elders.

That is the presupposition you are reading into the text, then.

If I'm putting together a football team and I declare that my quarterbacks "must be" 6' 5", I'm declaring WHO can be my quarterback...somebody who is 6'5". I'm not leaving the option open for quarterbacks shorter than that.

The text in question is doing just that. It is giving a requirement who can be God's "quarterback" so to speak...MEN.

 

[Crabtownboy]

That is the presupposition you are reading into the text, then.

If I'm putting together a football team and I declare that my quarterbacks "must be" 6' 5", I'm declaring WHO can be my quarterback...somebody who is 6'5". I'm not leaving the option open for quarterbacks shorter than that.

The text in question is doing just that. It is giving a requirement who can be God's "quarterback" so to speak...MEN.

There are just too many other verses, too many other examples for your belief to hold. You need to stop being a liberal in trying to make the Bible say what you want it to say, and beging looking at the Bible as a whole and letting it speak and educate you. Proof texting is a liberal approach, attempting to make the Bible mean what it does not mean ... i.e. to fit a preconceived set of beliefs. As males we must get out egos out of the way so God can speak truth to us.

 

[webdog]

There are just too many other verses, too many other examples for your belief to hold. You need to stop being a liberal in trying to make the Bible say what you want it to say, and beging looking at the Bible as a whole and letting it speak and educate you. Proof texting is a liberal approach, attempting to make the Bible mean what it does not mean ... i.e. to fit a preconceived set of beliefs. As males we must get out egos out of the way so God can speak truth to us.

You believe women can be pastors...and you have the gall to label me "liberal"?!? :laugh:

Try a proper hermeunetic approach to Scripture...don't interpret the Scripture giving the point blank requirements for elders through "Deborah was a judge" or "Phoebe was called a diakonos (servant)". You have done what you have accused me of...proof texting the CLEAR and PRECISE requirements to fit your religion / beliefs.

It has nothing to do with egos, but obedience to God's Word.

 

[Crabtownboy]

You believe women can be pastors...and you have the gall to label me "liberal"?!? :laugh:

Try a proper hermeunetic approach to Scripture...don't interpret the Scripture giving the point blank requirements for elders through "Deborah was a judge" or "Phoebe was called a diakonos (servant)". You have done what you have accused me of...proof texting the CLEAR and PRECISE requirements to fit your religion / beliefs.

It has nothing to do with egos, but obedience to God's Word.

Absolutely, it is liberal to attempt, with proof texts, to force the Bible to say what you want it to say. You must look at the Bible as a whole. There are many passages supporting the idea of women in many roles. Drop the male ego and get with the Bible.:tonofbricks: