Women pastors

[Jerome]

MacArthur...

MacArthur...

MacArthur...

MacArthur...

Grace to You
"it all starts with a serious commitment to this Word which was given to me first of all by my grandfather and my own father"

Grace to You
"my grandfather...was a faithful preacher of the Word of God all through his ministry"


Harry MacArthur took his congregation to hear evangelist Christabel Pankhurst.
90 years ago, folks!

"Rev. Harry Mac Arthur, pastor of the Pico community church, was present, with a large number of his congregation" Source

 

[Jerome]

Grace to You
"it all starts with a serious commitment to this Word which was given to me first of all by my grandfather and my own father"

Grace to You
"My father took his stand in the liberal-fundamentalist conflict. The issue then was the inspiration and authority of Scripture. My dad was bold and relentless, always with grace, to defend the Bible as inspired by God in total."


Evangelist Jack Macarthur (father) at a church with a woman pastor:

 

[ntchristian]

Yes your misuse of Galatians 3:28, and the Corinthians references speak volumes of your passion for context. As to your fixation on the baptist vs. pentecostal thing, I suggest you start a new thread, as this is in no way relevant to your thread, nor does it in any way help your position. If one wants to know the truth, they'd be better served looking to the scripture for guidance, not denominations. Try and stay on topic.

That's rich! So, I should take your word about my supposed misuse of those passages. Someone who has demonstrated comprehension and accuracy problems. See, you have confirmed again your confusion because I am undoubtedly on topic, or do I need to remind you again of what the topic was?

I do look to scripture, as a whole and in context. I suggest others here do not, including yourself. My questions about opposing interpretations are relevant. Now, based on your supposed stance and claims of strict literal adherence to scripture, I just know that if I came to your church, I would see all the women in head coverings. No? Then you have a chance to correct that and actually line up your practices with your supposed convictions.

 

[AustinC]

Scripture plainly says women can not. I place no faith in Mac, but he did build a Scriptural case I have not heard you refute.

I have shown you, in 1 Timothy 2, and in practicing Christianity...worldwide...that God gives women the gift of teaching and shepherding skills. The facts are simple. Women can. The evidence is overwhelming, women can.

However, men should. There is covenant reasons why men should that go back to Adam. This is what Paul is getting at when he references Adam and Eve.

What I see in your comments is a stubborn unwillingness to look at data while making assertions from some comment John MacArthur made while doing nothing yourself.
That's your choice, but you have nothing in your own personal argument that makes your assertion anything else than blustering on your part.

 

[5 point Gillinist]

That's rich! So, I should take your word about my supposed misuse of those passages. Someone who has demonstrated comprehension and accuracy problems. See, you have confirmed again your confusion because I am undoubtedly on topic, or do I need to remind you again of what the topic was?

I do look to scripture, as a whole and in context. I suggest others here do not, including yourself. My questions about opposing interpretations are relevant. Now, based on your supposed stance and claims of strict literal adherence to scripture, I just know that if I came to your church, I would see all the women in head coverings. No? Then you have a chance to correct that and actually line up your practices with your supposed convictions.

Here I'll remind you.

For those who object to them, what is your basis for doing so? The words of Paul? As a result of the Fall and Eve's part in it? Because Adam was created first? All of these? More?

Now maybe I'm not "comprehending" this, but it seems as if your statement here presupposes a biblical argument. And being as you dismissed Reynolds appeal to John MacArthur, it seems rather weasely to now appeal to denominational differences.

The only accuracy problems are yours. You haven't actually shown me where it is I said you are a liberal, or that you affirm homosexuality, you have simply read into my statement what is not there, similarly to how you read into scripture what isn't there.

If you are incapable of actually addressing why you believe Galatians 3:28 supports your position, that is ok, just say so. But talking down to me doesn't prove your point either, it makes you look rather cowardly.

 

[ntchristian]

Paul also places the same restriction on deacons as he does on pastors -- he says that deacons should be the husband of one wife. And yet there are female deacons in the NT. How do you male-only leadership folks handle that?

 

[JesusFan]

I have shown you, in 1 Timothy 2, and in practicing Christianity...worldwide...that God gives women the gift of teaching and shepherding skills. The facts are simple. Women can. The evidence is overwhelming, women can.

However, men should. There is covenant reasons why men should that go back to Adam. This is what Paul is getting at when he references Adam and Eve.

What I see in your comments is a stubborn unwillingness to look at data while making assertions from some comment John MacArthur made while doing nothing yourself.
That's your choice, but you have nothing in your own personal argument that makes your assertion anything else than blustering on your part.

There are NO scripture to support women being either in positions of spiritual authority such as pastor or Elders in a local church

 

[JesusFan]

Here I'll remind you.



Now maybe I'm not "comprehending" this, but it seems as if your statement here presupposes a biblical argument. And being as you dismissed Reynolds appeal to John MacArthur, it seems rather weasely to now appeal to denominational differences.

The only accuracy problems are yours. You haven't actually shown me where it is I said you are a liberal, or that you affirm homosexuality, you have simply read into my statement what is not there, similarly to how you read into scripture what isn't there.

If you are incapable of actually addressing why you believe Galatians 3:28 supports your position, that is ok, just say so. But talking down to me doesn't prove your point either, it makes you look rather cowardly.

Dr MacArthur does not hold infallible theology, but he is spot on regarding women as Pastors and elders per the Bible

 

[ntchristian]

Here I'll remind you.



Now maybe I'm not "comprehending" this, but it seems as if your statement here presupposes a biblical argument. And being as you dismissed Reynolds appeal to John MacArthur, it seems rather weasely to now appeal to denominational differences.

The only accuracy problems are yours. You haven't actually shown me where it is I said you are a liberal, or that you affirm homosexuality, you have simply read into my statement what is not there, similarly to how you read into scripture what isn't there.

If you are incapable of actually addressing why you believe Galatians 3:28 supports your position, that is ok, just say so. But talking down to me doesn't actually prove your point either, it makes you look rather cowardly.

I'm not appealing to denominational differences, I'm questioning them and how they relate to the question at hand.

Your statements strongly imply -- actually more than imply -- that I am liberal and support homosexuality. Anyone who reads what you said can see that. If you say otherwise, you are being dishonest.

I'm not talking down to you, I'm trying to get some honesty and sense out of you.

If I remember correctly, I posited the possibility of the Galatians passage as allowing for women pastors and wanted to know what others thought. I have seen others on different forums use that as a basis for believing in women pastors. At the time, I thought it could have some legitimacy. I'm still inclined that way. But just as strong or stronger is the cultural situation in which Paul wrote his restrictions on ministry qualifications.

 

[5 point Gillinist]

Your statements strongly imply -- actually more than imply -- that I am liberal and support homosexuality. Anyone who reads what you said can see that. If you say otherwise, you are being dishonest.

I agree that my initial comment was rather brash, and it would have been better to make a clearer distinctions (someone like you - someone who uses the same style of argument as you). That being said, I did not call you a liberal, nor did I imply that you affirm homosexuality. And I have made clarifications to it since.

 

[JesusFan]

I agree that my initial comment was rather brash, and it would have been better to make a clearer distinctions (someone like you - someone who uses the same style of argument as you). That being said, I did not call you a liberal, nor did I imply that you affirm homosexuality.

It does seem though that opening up to woman ordination seem to also many times lead to liberal views on scriptures and sexuality!

 

[5 point Gillinist]

It does seem though that opening up to woman ordination seem to also many times lead to liberal views on scriptures and sexuality!

I agree it typically leads there, I've seen it happen here locally.

 

[ntchristian]

I wish to say that this thread confirms my belief that "iron sharpens iron". I was undecided about the issue at the beginning. But the inconsistency of opponents to women pastors has pushed me toward affirming them. I am still considering the issue from the order of creation angle, as I believe that may be the strongest reason for opposing women as pastors. I'm not sure it succeeds because woman was created from Adam's rib and as a helpmate, not from his foot as his servant. But still I will consider the order of creation argument. And I would like to hear others' thoughts on this.

If I do eventually favor women as pastors, this would be a dramatic shift from where I was in Orthodoxy.

 

[ntchristian]

I agree that my initial comment was rather brash, and it would have been better to make a clearer distinctions (someone like you - someone who uses the same style of argument as you). That being said, I did not call you a liberal, nor did I imply that you affirm homosexuality. And I have made clarifications to it since.

Well, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and offer a truce.

 

[Reynolds]

I have shown you, in 1 Timothy 2, and in practicing Christianity...worldwide...that God gives women the gift of teaching and shepherding skills. The facts are simple. Women can. The evidence is overwhelming, women can.

However, men should. There is covenant reasons why men should that go back to Adam. This is what Paul is getting at when he references Adam and Eve.

What I see in your comments is a stubborn unwillingness to look at data while making assertions from some comment John MacArthur made while doing nothing yourself.
That's your choice, but you have nothing in your own personal argument that makes your assertion anything else than blustering on your part.

You have shown me a misapplication of 1 Tim and you have shown me examples of women in rebellion to the Word of God.

Mac lays out the Scriptural case. Refute it. You can't. All you can do is make unscriptural claims like Beth Moore.
I posted you the Scripture. Women can not teach men in all the churches. Refute it! You can't. Simple enough. All you can do is compile a list of people who are in rebellion and error.

 

[ntchristian]

I've noticed that the only way some can maintain their positions is to emphasize one part of scripture while ignoring other parts. That undermines their position.

 

[Campion]

So no women teachers is an absolute but head coverings are not?

 

[AustinC]

You have shown me a misapplication of 1 Tim and you have shown me examples of women in rebellion to the Word of God.

Mac lays out the Scriptural case. Refute it. You can't. All you can do is make unscriptural claims like Beth Moore.
I posted you the Scripture. Women can not teach men in all the churches. Refute it! You can't. Simple enough. All you can do is compile a list of people who are in rebellion and error.

You say it's a misapplication, but you have nothing other than "Mr Mac says so."
I already showed you that women teach the Bible to men all around the world. The issue here is not whether women can teach. The issue is whether you will listen to women when they teach. You simply state that you won't even listen. This comes off as silly since you would rather listen to a baby Christian who has not been given the gift of teaching, but is a man, instead of listen to a mature female Christian with a vast education and a God-given gift of teaching.
Frankly, that's just bullheaded stupidity on your part.

 

[tyndale1946]

I wish to say that this thread confirms my belief that "iron sharpens iron". I was undecided about the issue at the beginning. But the inconsistency of opponents to women pastors has pushed me toward affirming them. I am still considering the issue from the order of creation angle, as I believe that may be the strongest reason for opposing women as pastors. I'm not sure it succeeds because woman was created from Adam's rib and as a helpmate, not from his foot as his servant. But still I will consider the order of creation argument. And I would like to hear others' thoughts on this.

If I do eventually favor women as pastors, this would be a dramatic shift from where I was in Orthodoxy.

You can favor it all you want... This has be hashed and rehashed since I first joined, this is nothing new... Type in the search box Women Pastors... And you can see how many times it has, but I go by scripture not by favor... So lets look at scripture, not personal opinion.

1 Timothy 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

1Timothy 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Your argument is not with me or with those who hold to this truth, your argument is with scripture!... Brother Glen

 

[JesusFan]

I wish to say that this thread confirms my belief that "iron sharpens iron". I was undecided about the issue at the beginning. But the inconsistency of opponents to women pastors has pushed me toward affirming them. I am still considering the issue from the order of creation angle, as I believe that may be the strongest reason for opposing women as pastors. I'm not sure it succeeds because woman was created from Adam's rib and as a helpmate, not from his foot as his servant. But still I will consider the order of creation argument. And I would like to hear others' thoughts on this.

If I do eventually favor women as pastors, this would be a dramatic shift from where I was in Orthodoxy.

ALL I ask is for ANY NT verse that supports women as pastors or Elders!