Women pastors

[Duckie]

Not to me. Also, why ban women from being pastors but not make them wear head coverings?

That only stopped in the last 150 years. Before, they did. Think of the old days going back to the lady's in church with the fancy hats or Easter bonnets.

 

[Campion]

I think there are in fact important contexts in which Paul was writing. Of course he was influenced by the OT, but was he not also influenced by the Hellenistic world in which he was writing? The NT is clearly the convergence of the Jewish and Hellenistic worlds. Even the person to whom Paul was corresponding (Timothy) was himself a sort of image of this, as Timothy was the son of Greek gentile father and Greek-speaking Jewish mother.

The other context I think is missing is the stage of Christianity at this point in history.

Do these things not play any role in our understanding the text?

 

[Duckie]

1 Corinthians 14:33-35 ESV
For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints, [34] the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. [35] If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.

I have no idea how anyone can misunderstand this.
"As in all the Churches .....Women ...are not permitted to speak."
How can you not understand that?

I am not arguing, but I am curious, if two or more are considered the church, where does that leave women on internet forums?

 

[Reynolds]

I am not arguing, but I am curious, if two or more are considered the church, where does that leave women on internet forums?

Where do you get two or more being a Church?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

I have never heard anyone argue that the office of pastor is anything other than the office of bishop. Your female aSS teachers clearly do not meet the criteria for the office of bishop.

The teacher (it matters not if male or female) is the overseer of that class.

 

[McCree79]

Actually, there was once I thought I was wrong - but i was mistaken

My dad used to say this all the time. Haha

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[Reynolds]

The teacher (it matters not if male or female) is the overseer of that class.

So you don't see a pastor as a Bishop? Women can be Bishops?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

So you don't see a pastor as a Bishop? Women can be Bishops?

of their class. The teachers are serving under the authority of the Pastoral staff.

 

[AustinC]

It's interesting that if we take a strictly literal interpretation of the office of elders, then neither Paul nor Timothy could hold that position since they had no spouse nor children that had been raised as an example of their leadership skills.

Here in lies the heart of a legalist, when they cannot conceive of God working outside the bounds of their legalism.

For centuries women have gone out onto the mission field to preach to the unreached through their actions and words. Churches have been established and men trained in the gospel...by women.
Where were the men? Too busy working for a buck in corporate America?
Again, women can, but men should.
And when men have this role, they must be humble and gentle rather than treat the flock as though the flock were slaves and they the task masters over them.
Scarlett is accurate in her portrait of many pastors and indeed of some who post in this thread.

 

[ntchristian]

Noted and accepted. Thanks for clarifying.

I’ve been having this discussion for more than 25 years, right after I was saved I began a NT class at a local college. The prof brought these same issues of cultural context up. I kept coming back to the fact Paul gave his reason for prohibiting women from teaching or having authority over men as based on the creation and the fall.

Finally, he told me that he “disagreed with Paul’s interpretation of the OT”. I was astonished. I said “but Paul was an Apostle”. He responded, “Paul thought he was an Apostle”. So he knew what scripture said, but refused to accept it.

I dropped the class.

I have come to realize that this discussion isn’t really about women being pastors. This discussion is about the authority of scripture.

So I’ll ask you, do you accept Paul’s interpretation of the OT as it pertains to male leadership in the church?

peace to you

I think it is more complicated than that. To me, there are at least four questions that need to be asked? Does the order of creation, and the fall, factor in here? Why do some follow Paul in one area but not in others? Did Paul mean for his teaching to be followed by all in all times and places? Does Jesus' redemption change the results of the fall?

My answers: Yes, to the first; I don't know, to the second; no, to the third; yes, to the fourth.

 

[Reynolds]

of their class. The teachers are serving under the authority of the Pastoral staff.

Can a woman teach a man?

 

[Reynolds]

I think it is more complicated than that. To me, there are at least four questions that need to be asked? Does the order of creation, and the fall, factor in here? Why do some follow Paul in one area but not in others? Did Paul mean for his teaching to be followed by all in all times and places? Does Jesus' redemption change the results of the fall?

My answers: Yes, to the first; I don't know, to the second; no, to the third; yes, to the fourth.

First, you shouldn't ask Paul's intent. You should ask what the Spirit meant when He inspired Paul to write.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Can a woman teach a man?

No, but then our female SS Teachers are teaching the Primary and below classes.

 

[5 point Gillinist]

My comments were about being scripturally consistent, which I have found many opposed to women pastors not to be.

No your comment wasn't. It is a typical liberal non-argument similar to when people cite Leviticus to show that sodomy is a sin, and someone like you will say "do you wear a mixed garment, or eat shellfish?" It is a blatant misrepresentation of the word so as to try and win an argument.

 

[Duckie]

Where do you get two or more being a Church?

Matthew 18:20

This is the understanding I've been taught, if I am wrong, feel free to correct me.

Matthew 18:20 Meaning of Where Two or More Are Gathered

 

[AustinC]

Can a woman teach a man?

From scripture? Absolutely yes. My mom was a great teacher.
Nancy Guthrie's material on seeing Jesus in the Old Testament is excellent. You would learn a lot from her teaching. Moreso, Nancy humbly submits herself under men as leaders, not because she can't teach, but because men in her life are Godly, kind, and humble leaders.

The horrible thing in the church is the arrogant man who thinks all should bow to his rule.

 

[Reynolds]

Matthew 18:20

This is the understanding I've been taught, if I am wrong, feel free to correct me.

Matthew 18:20 Meaning of Where Two or More Are Gathered

I am not saying you are wrong, but I don't see it.

 

[Reynolds]

From scripture? Absolutely yes. My mom was a great teacher.
Nancy Guthrie's material on seeing Jesus in the Old Testament is excellent. You would learn a lot from her teaching. Moreso, Nancy humbly submits herself under men as leaders, not because she can't teach, but because men in her life are Godly, kind, and humble leaders.

The horrible thing in the church is the arrogant man who thinks all should bow to his rule.

I Tim 2:12

 

[Campion]

Did Paul ever correct Prisca for teaching Apollos?

Women teach all the time. Walk into your average Sunday school class and see if there are women teaching it.

Again, who cares? In 20 years, a robot will probably be preaching and teaching. This is only problematic if there is something more to the actual office described in the New Testament. If this is the case, then the Catholics and Orthodox are on to something.

 

[canadyjd]

It's interesting that if we take a strictly literal interpretation of the office of elders, then neither Paul nor Timothy could hold that position since they had no spouse nor children that had been raised as an example of their leadership skills.

Here in lies the heart of a legalist, when they cannot conceive of God working outside the bounds of their legalism.

For centuries women have gone out onto the mission field to preach to the unreached through their actions and words. Churches have been established and men trained in the gospel...by women.
Where were the men? Too busy working for a buck in corporate America?
Again, women can, but men should.
And when men have this role, they must be humble and gentle rather than treat the flock as though the flock were slaves and they the task masters over them.
Scarlett is accurate in her portrait of many pastors and indeed of some who post in this thread.

I’m still waiting for your deep dive into the Greek to prove your statement that Paul’s instructions in 1 Tim could be interpreted as “I do not presently, at this time, allow women to teach or have authority over men”

It is not “legalistic” to follow the clear teaching of scripture in this matter.

The rest of what you stated are straw man arguments that have nothing to do with what scripture teaches about male leadership in the church

peace to you