". . .you are not among my sheep." (John 10:26)

[SheepWhisperer]

So, it is "all of God" but still "some of you?"

Nah, It's all God demanding that you obey His will by believing on His Son, or fry in hell for all eternity. All God.

God: "You're a low down filthy wicked sinner.......believe on my only begotten Son or burn in hell forever"
Me: "God be merciful to me a sinner!!!"
No "merit" in that bro.

 

[TCassidy]

Nah, It's all God demanding that you obey His will by believing on His Son, or fry in hell for all eternity.

So you do have to do something. You have to "obey His will by believing on His Son."

"Obey" is a verb. Something you DO!

"Believing" is a verb. Something you DO!

Thank you for proving my point.

 

[SheepWhisperer]

"but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep." (John 10:26)

My Arminian brothers have a problem when it comes to who takes credit for the salvation of their souls, and the point at which they have an issue is at the point of faith.

When looking at two people who have heard the gospel, one saved and one not, the Arminian gives himself credit for why he is counted among the children of God. He reasons that he chose God while his neighbor didn't. There was something in him that his neighbor was lacking. He responded while his neighbor didn't, so he naturally assumes that he was either smarter, more humble, more receptive, more grateful. . .

What he fails to see is that the reason he hears and responds while his neighbor does not is that he is one of God's chosen. He is among the fold of Christ. "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." (John 10:27) His sheep follow Him because there are His. They are already His! They belong to Him!. The reason that the Arminian's neighbor does not follow Christ is that his neighbor is not His. "but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep." (John 10:26)

According to Jesus, His sheep follow Him because they were His sheep to begin with.

May we all give glory to God for both His grace and the faith which receives it.

I believe His words NOW and follow Him NOW, because on May11, 1986, He saved me and I became one of His sheep.

John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.


Now read the rest of the scripture.......

John 10
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

He's exhorting these Jews to BELEIVE, after He just got done saying "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep". Let that sink in Brother.

 

[TCassidy]

God: "You're a low down filthy wicked sinner.......believe on my only begotten Son or burn in hell forever"
Me: "God be merciful to me a sinner!!!"
No "merit" in that bro.

God: "You're a low down filthy wicked sinner.......believe on my only begotten Son or burn in hell forever"
Me: Are you kidding? I don't even believe you exist. And if I did believe you exist, I would still hate you. And I will not accept you. This whole subject is stupid.
God: I can fix that. (Regenerates me and gives me the ability to believe, repent, and obey).
None of me. All of Him.

2 Corinthians 2:14.

 

[SheepWhisperer]

So you do have to do something. You have to "obey His will by believing on His Son."

"Obey" is a verb. Something you DO!

"Believing" is a verb. Something you DO!

Thank you for proving my point.

Does the Bible say anything about verbs? No, it says "works". Believing in your heart is not a work.

 

[TCassidy]

He's exhorting these Jews to BELEIVE, after He just got done saying "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep". Let that sink in Brother.

Yes. They don't believe because they are not His.

Those that do believe, believe because they are His.

Very simple. And again proves our point.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Does the Bible say anything about verbs? No, it says "works". Believing in your heart is not a work.

Right.

"Sleep" and "snore" are also action verbs. It hardly qualifies as a "work" in any meaningful sense.
To conflate action verbs with a Biblical definition of "works" is absurd. I half believe T.C. doesn't really even buy his own argument on this. It's slightly insulting that he seems to think non-Calvinists will.

 

[TCassidy]

Does the Bible say anything about verbs? No, it says "works". Believing in your heart is not a work.

"Works" is a noun. Something you have. "Nothing in my hand I bring, simply to thy cross I cling."

"Work" is a verb. Something you do.

Work:
verb
1.
be engaged in physical or mental activity in order to achieve a purpose or result, especially in one's job; do work. Merriam Webster Dictionary of the English language.

"Believing" is a verb. Something you DO!

You keep claiming it is all of God but you also keep claiming that you have to DO something!

 

[TCassidy]

Right.

"Sleep" and "snore" are also action verbs. It hardly qualifies as a "work" in any meaningful sense.
To conflate action verbs with a Biblical definition of "works" is absurd. I half believe T.C. doesn't really even buy his own argument on this. It's slightly insulting that he seems to think non-Calvinists will.

"Sleep" is something you DO!

"Snore" is something you DO!

And I didn't conflate anything. That is just wishful thinking on your part.

And I believe in biblical soteriology with all my heart. And the fact that you don't seem able to understand it is not my problem. I can tell you the Truth but I can't open your mind to receive it.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

"Sleep" is something you DO!

So is "steal" or "lie"....
You are acting as though since they are action verbs that they would similarly fit a Biblical definition of "works". No one believes this.

"Snore" is something you DO!

Yes, it's not a "work" in any meaningful sense, and you are too intelligent to believe this.

And I didn't conflate anything. That is just wishful thinking on your part.

Yes, you did. ". . .you are not among my sheep." (John 10:26) And it isn't the first time. You conflated a Biblical definition of "works" with "doing" essentially anything or subsumed all action verbs into "works".

And I believe in biblical soteriology with all my heart.

Me too. Everyone on this board at least thinks they do.

I can tell you the Truth

The "truth" that action verbs are by very definition synonymous with a Biblical definition of "works"?

but I can't open your mind to receive it.

No, you certainly can't.....I don't think anyone buys your line of argument on this one. I half think you don't. I could be mistaken.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

"Works" is a noun. Something you have. "Nothing in my hand I bring, simply to thy cross I cling."

Ah, but, alas, since to "cling" is an action verb....something you DO!
That, by your definition qualifies as a "work".

 

[SheepWhisperer]

Yes. They don't believe because they are not His.

Those that do believe, believe because they are His.

Very simple. And again proves our point.

Yes, I believe NOW because I became "His sheep", back in 1986. Very simple.
Jesus told those Jews that His sheep heard His voice because they were His.
THEN he told those same Jews that THEY could believe too. Read John 10: 38

 

[SheepWhisperer]

double post

 

[thatbrian]

You're just the man I need to help me. Please come to my farm and tell my sheep that they don't eat grain, because they don't know it yet. I'm buying a ton and a half of corn per load and they're eating it like candy. I was feeding them oats too but it is even more expensive. These are mine eating grain at the trough......

I don't know man, I've fed calves from a bottle and fed sheep from a bottle. I've fed calves at a trough and sheep as well. I have fed calves out of my hand many times too. These are some of my sheep.......

Try to remind yourself of the historical context.

 

[thatbrian]

Nah, It's all God demanding that you obey His will by believing on His Son, or fry in hell for all eternity. All God.

God: "You're a low down filthy wicked sinner.......believe on my only begotten Son or burn in hell forever"
Me: "God be merciful to me a sinner!!!"
No "merit" in that bro.

Let me get this straight. God told you the above, and then you acted on it. That's why you are saved while someone else is not, correct?

 

[SheepWhisperer]

Try to remind yourself of the historical context.

Oh yes, they had wheat back then. I have fed handfuls of wheat grain to my sheep too and they ate it just fine, but for me it's more expensive than oats and corn so it was a rare treat. I have planted it though, and the sheep love it. I don't know what you mean Bro, I'm sure sheep eat the same things and behave the same way as they did 2000+ years ago.

Contrary to what you said, sheep do eat grain. They also like peanuts, peanut butter, pecans(in or out of the shell), cereal, crackers etc. I feed mine on sorghum, clovers, millet, oats(grass), wheat(grass) and rye. Then there is Vetch, Alyce clover, Lespadezza, Winter Peas (those aren't grasses)......

 

[thatbrian]

Oh yes, they had wheat back then. I have fed handfuls of wheat grain to my sheep too and they ate it just fine, but for me it's more expensive than oats and corn so it was a rare treat. I have planted it though, and the sheep love it. I don't know what you mean Bro, I'm sure sheep eat the same things and behave the same way as they did 2000+ years ago.

Contrary to what you said, sheep do eat grain. They also like peanuts, peanut butter, pecans(in or out of the shell), cereal, crackers etc. I feed mine on sorghum, clovers, millet, oats(grass), wheat(grass) and rye. Then there is Vetch, Alyce clover, Lespadezza, Winter Peas (those aren't grasses)......

Jesus: My sheep like wheat, so I give them some, and they follow me." Is that what the text says???

No, if you are correct, then ALL sheep would come to Christ; however, the point of the story is that not all do, and those who do, do so because they "know His voice"

You seem to be missing the point by much more than a mile, so I may give up at this point. I don't hold out much hope for a reasonable debate with you.

 

[TCassidy]

Yes, I believe NOW because I became "His sheep", back in 1986. Very simple.

So you didn't believe when you became His sheep? Your belief came later?

 

[TCassidy]

Ah, but, alas, since to "cling" is an action verb....something you DO!
That, by your definition qualifies as a "work".

Exactly! Prior to regeneration I rejected the cross. After regeneration I cling to the cross.

 

[thatbrian]

Exactly! Prior to regeneration I rejected the cross. After regeneration I cling to the cross.

I hated God. I hide from Him. I did not seek Him. He sought, found, and saved me, though, and my lips will praise Him for all eternity, because He saved His enemy. He saved a scoffer. He saved a pig of a human being - a wretch like me, not because I sought Him, for I did not. Not because I served Him, for I did not, but because He set His love on me. Can you imagine?! He set His love on me, the least deserving creature on the face of the Earth. . .