Your KJVO myth is false.

[delizzle]

I tried to read the Bible growing up but would loose interest round about Leviticus. After the Holy Spirit came in I would end up reading the Bible entirely through seven times. If I pick up a bible to read I will immediately dislike it if it is not an authorized KJV.

Sounds more like subjective bias to me.

 

[thatbrian]

I tried to read the Bible growing up but would loose interest round about Leviticus. After the Holy Spirit came in I would end up reading the Bible entirely through seven times. If I pick up a bible to read I will immediately dislike it if it is not an authorized KJV.

That's great. It's your *preference*. No need to invoke the Holy Spirit.

 

[One Baptism]

So there were legit bible versions before the Kjv 1611?

Yes. Mankind has always had God's word [even if not in a book], even since the days of Adam. It is just that mankind has not always believed it, just as then, so too today. Once this earth burns up, even the books will go, and the only thing left from this earth is that which God has written upon the fleshy tables of the heart, wherein the Holy Ghost has etched the word of God, the Law of God, 2 Corinthians 3:3; Ezekiel 36:26-27; Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:8-13, 10:16.

Is that required in order to have an infallible English translation?

No, and was not the reason I asked either. For loDebar had said:

... Why would you not try to get close as you can to the first words ...

This would imply seeking original [secondary, tertiary, etc] mss, codices, papyrii etc in order to really understand and know what God has said. That is a waste of time, if to seek those things, is to so determine what God really said. That is a quest of doubt and will never be fulfilled. Thus my reply:

Show me a single authentically verified original autograph of anything Moses wrote.

I pray that this is clear. Since there are no 'originals' to be found, and merely fragmentary copies of copies scattered throughout [which are helpful and interesting in a certain sense], yet, even without a single fragmentary piece, I would still know that I had God's word, in the English of the King James, simply because that is what God promised to do, in places like Psalms 12:6-7 KJB, etc, and the internal evidences of the texts themselves, show me that is what He did and does still do.

I will now continue speaking to loDebar:

Moses did not write, scribes did. We do not have his copy as you know but at least use the closest Hebrew version possible ,, not a Greek OT

Moses did not write? That is contrary to scripture itself:

Exodus 24:4 KJB - And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.

Exodus 35:29 KJB - The children of Israel brought a willing offering unto the LORD, every man and woman, whose heart made them willing to bring for all manner of work, which the LORD had commanded to be made by the hand of Moses.

Leviticus 8:36 KJB - So Aaron and his sons did all things which the LORD commanded by the hand of Moses.

Leviticus 10:11 KJB - And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.

Leviticus 26:46 KJB - These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the LORD made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses.

Numbers 33:2 KJB - And Moses wrote their goings out according to their journeys by the commandment of the LORD: and these are their journeys according to their goings out.

Deuteronomy 31:9 KJB - And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel.

Deuteronomy 31:22 KJB - Moses therefore wrote this song the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.

Deuteronomy 31:24 KJB - And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,

Joshua 8:32 KJB - And he wrote there upon the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he wrote in the presence of the children of Israel.

Judges 3:4 KJB - And they were to prove Israel by them, to know whether they would hearken unto the commandments of the LORD, which he commanded their fathers by the hand of Moses.

1 Kings 8:53 KJB - For thou didst separate them from among all the people of the earth, to be thine inheritance, as thou spakest by the hand of Moses thy servant, when thou broughtest our fathers out of Egypt, O Lord GOD.

1 Kings 8:56 KJB - Blessed be the LORD, that hath given rest unto his people Israel, according to all that he promised: there hath not failed one word of all his good promise, which he promised by the hand of Moses his servant.

2 Chronicles 33:8 KJB - Neither will I any more remove the foot of Israel from out of the land which I have appointed for your fathers; so that they will take heed to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.

2 Chronicles 35:6 KJB - So kill the passover, and sanctify yourselves, and prepare your brethren, that they may do according to the word of the LORD by the hand of Moses.

Nehemiah 9:14 KJB - And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:

Mark 12:19 KJB - Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man's brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

Luke 20:28 KJB - Saying, Master, Moses wrote unto us, If any man's brother die, having a wife, and he die without children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

Colossians 2:14 KJB - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

John 5:46 KJB - For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.​

etc.

Please especially notice the last one [John 5:46 KJB]. Jesus is speaking. He spoke the plain and clear truth.

You are in error loDebar. Repent. I am not joking. If you cling to an error, you will gather more darkness to yourself.

 

[One Baptism]

Jesus used the Tanakh [emoji6]

If you would not have cut off my sentence [ Your KJVO myth is false. even without an ellipses, which is grievous misrepresentation], you would understand what I meant when I said, "Jesus has indeed used the 1611 ...", which is followed immediately by "Jesus has indeed used the 1611 [aka King James Bible in English], look at the revivals, souls saved, lives converted, etc."

I did not say Jesus, in the days of the 12 Apostles, used a book, called by the date, the "1611".

Jesus, who is still alive, and in the place called [the 3rd] Heaven, used [and still uses, by the Holy Spirit, through angels, men and providences] the 1611 [the King James Bible], His preserved words, in the English language, to deliver people, to bring revivals, etc.

 

[One Baptism]

The penmen were not inspired. The most that can be said is they were "carried along" by the Holy Spirit in producing the inspired WRITINGS which we call the bible.

"All SCRIPTURE (the writings) is given by INSPIRATION of God."

It was the words of God that were "breathed out" by God.

You are in error. Re-read the text.

We know that Jeremiah was the prophet. He was inspired. Yet Baruch wrote the words. Who then was worked upon/in by the Holy Ghost? The man Jeremiah, the man Baruch or the paper and pen and what was written?

Job 32:8 KJB - But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Job 33:14 KJB - For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not.

Job 33:15 KJB - In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed;

Job 33:16 KJB - Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction,

Nehemiah 9:20 KJB - Thou gavest also thy good spirit to instruct them, and withheldest not thy manna from their mouth, and gavest them water for their thirst.

Isaiah 30:21 KJB - And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

Ezekiel 11:5 KJB - And the Spirit of the LORD fell upon me, and said unto me, Speak; Thus saith the LORD; Thus have ye said, O house of Israel: for I know the things that come into your mind, every one of them.

Daniel 4:8 KJB - But at the last Daniel came in before me, whose name was Belteshazzar, according to the name of my god, and in whom is the spirit of the holy gods: and before him I told the dream, saying,

Daniel 4:9 KJB - O Belteshazzar, master of the magicians, because I know that the spirit of the holy gods is in thee, and no secret troubleth thee, tell me the visions of my dream that I have seen, and the interpretation thereof.

Daniel 4:18 KJB - This dream I king Nebuchadnezzar have seen. Now thou, O Belteshazzar, declare the interpretation thereof, forasmuch as all the wise men of my kingdom are not able to make known unto me the interpretation: but thou art able; for the spirit of the holy gods is in thee.

Daniel 5:11 KJB - There is a man in thy kingdom, in whom is the spirit of the holy gods; and in the days of thy father light and understanding and wisdom, like the wisdom of the gods, was found in him; whom the king Nebuchadnezzar thy father, the king, I say, thy father, made master of the magicians, astrologers, Chaldeans, and soothsayers;

Daniel 5:14 KJB - I have even heard of thee, that the spirit of the gods is in thee, and that light and understanding and excellent wisdom is found in thee.

The Holy Spirit worked upon and in Daniel. Daniel, the man, was inspired. He then wrote.
​

Micah 3:8 KJB - But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the LORD, and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin.

Zechariah 4:6 KJB - Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

1 Corinthians 7:40 KJB - But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.

Paul was inspired, and then did he not write down what he did, is it now scripture?
​

1 Corinthians 12:8 KJB - For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

Was not Solomon inspired?
​

1 Timothy 4:1 KJB - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Who was the Spirit speaking to, inspiring? that it was then later written down by the inspired man?
​

2 Timothy 3:16 KJB - All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

It is the men who are inspired of/by God, and thus the scriptures come through such holy men in their writing, by their having been inspired of/by God to write.
​

1 Peter 1:11 KJB - Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

1 Peter 1:12 KJB - Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

2 Peter 1:21 KJB - For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Revelation 1:10 KJB - I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,​

 

[One Baptism]

The KJV (NOT "KJB") is a "Model T" bible version whose English has been left behind in time...

Requoted here, since I have not seen a single reply by robycop3 yet, even though this thread is halfway done:

"... Why then do all the modern translations really then compare themselves to [whine about] the King James Bible, instead of to each other, since it would be a closer comparison to 'modern' scholarship, academia, and 'textual criticism' [higher and lower]? Wouldn't that seem to be a ridiculous comparison to compare a so-called 'Model T' [indeed the 'model [ie perfect] cross'] to let's say a "Koenigsegg CCXR Trevita ($4.8M)", if they really believed what they say?

The King James Bible is the rock, still going strong, while other translations into English, 'peter' out after a few years. Where is the RV? Where is the ARV? Where is the original NKJV? Where is the Weymouth? Where is the Goodspeed? Where is the RSV? Where is the Moffat? Where is the Lesser? Where is the Noyes? Where is the Rotherham? Where is the Douay Rheims? Where is the Geneva? Where is the Bishops? Where is the ISV? Where is the Webster? Looks like a line up of the so-called evolutionary chain [Piltdown man, Nebraska Man, Calaveras Man, and Hespero-pithecus, etc], all of which have since fallen by the way ...

The English is indeed up to date, for most of the world speaks English of England [Canada, Australia, England [of course], China, Americas, Africa, etc], and can be shown to be most current by the cited reference work of "Archaic Words and the Authorized Version" by Laurence M. Vance, which I have right here, ready to show you, when you would like. ..." - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...​

 

[One Baptism]

I usually use the NIV as my personal "go to" translation. However, anyone familiar in hermeneutics will know that it is always best to use at least two different translations accompanied with a good commentary. That way if you notice that the verses are different, you can turn to the commentary for further information.

Let me know when you are ready to look more closely at that NIV [which one?], and more specifically the preface and the English words used in the text itself.

Also if we carefully read the preface to the NKJV, it mocks the King James Bible in subtlties, yet openly. It even quotes from various persons of the King of the South and the King of the North therein, all the while pretending to uphold the King James Bible, yet spits, in its pre-face.

Of all the English translations I have seen, the NKJV attacks the remnant, the Seventh-day Adventist movement, the most, in every single pillar, while the others assault Christ Jesus and his people generally.

While many English translations contain some of God's word, the King James Bible is God's word, in English.

 

[Salty]

I usually use the NIV as my personal "go to" translation. However, anyone familiar in hermeneutics will know that it is always best to use at least two different translations accompanied with a good commentary. That way if you notice that the verses are different, you can turn to the commentary for further information.

Have you ever thought of getting a four translation Parallel Bible?

 

[One Baptism]

Have you ever thought of getting a four translation Parallel Bible?

Yeah, really confuse a person. Multiply the errors.

 

[One Baptism]

I usually use the NIV as my personal "go to" translation. However, anyone familiar in hermeneutics will know that it is always best to use at least two different translations accompanied with a good commentary. That way if you notice that the verses are different, you can turn to the commentary for further information.

NIV and multiple translations with a concordance, here we go:

1 Samuel 13:1

1 Samuel 13:1 KJB - Saul reigned one year; and when he had reigned two years over Israel,

1 Samuel 13:1 HOT - בן־שׁנה שׁאול במלכו ושׁתי שׁנים מלך על־ישׂראל׃​

The Geneva, Young's Literal, The Living Bible, etc, and even Jerome's Latin Vulgate gets this right. Is this difficult to understand?

Well ... apparently, others stumble over this ...

NIV:

1 Samuel 13:1 NIV [©1973, 1978, 1984, 2011] - Saul was thirty[a] years old when he became king, and he reigned over Israel forty- two years.

Acts 13:21 NIV - Then the people asked for a king, and he gave them Saul son of Kish, of the tribe of Benjamin, who ruled forty years.

a. 1 Samuel 13:1 A few late manuscripts of the Septuagint; Hebrew does not have thirty.
b. 1 Samuel 13:1 Probable reading of the original Hebrew text (see Acts 13:21); Masoretic Text does not have forty-.​

Contradiction in the text. 42. 40. No Hebrew for 30.

In fact the so-called LXX, LXX+ [Strong's and Rombinson's Morphological Analysis codes], and Brenton's LXX, I have on E-sword does NOT list 1 Samuel 13:1, it is MISSING, DELETED as in the GNT.

ESV:

1 Samuel 13:1 ESV - Saul lived for one year and then became king, and when he had reigned for two years over Israel,[a]
​

NASB:

1 Samuel 13:1 NASB - Saul was [a]thirty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned forty two years over Israel.

Acts 13:21 NASB - Then they asked for a king, and God gave them Saul the son of Kish, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, for forty years.​

Contradiction in the text. 42. 40. No Hebrew for 30.

DRA:

1 Samuel 13:1 DRA - Saul was a child of one year when he began to reign, and he reigned two years over Israel.

Acts 13:21 DRA - And after that they desired a king: and God gave them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, forty years.
​

DRA is a little vague, though somewhat literal in 1 Samuel 13:1, for a better word would be "son", rather than child, which makes it seem as if Saul was a 1 year old child in age, rather than in reign. Also the period in 1 Samuel 13:1 after "reigned two year over israel", would seeminly not match Acts 13:21, though if read in a certain way could still come out right, though again, is still vague.

NEB:

1 Samuel 13:1 NEB - Saul was fifty years old when he became king, and he reigned over Israel for twenty-two years.

Acts 13:21 NEB - Then they asked for a king, and God gave them Saul the son of Kish, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, who reigned for forty years ...
​

Contradiction in the text. 22. 40. No Hebrew for 50.

CEV:

1 Samuel 13:1 CEV [Bible Gateway] - Saul was 30 years old[a] when he became king, and he ruled over Israel forty-two years.

1 Samuel 13:1 CEV [E-Sword] Saul was a young man when he became king, and he ruled Israel for two years.

Acts 13:21 CEV - but the people demanded a king. So for forty years God gave them King Saul, the son of Kish from the tribe of Benjamin.

a. 1 Samuel 13:1 LXXL; Syr twenty-one; MT lacks a number; 13:1 is omitted in LXXB.

b. 1 Samuel 13:1 Part of the number is missing in MT (… and two years) and all ancient witnesses. Acts 13:21 says Saul ruled forty years, as does Josephus (Ant. 6.14.9 [378]), though Josephus also says Saul ruled twenty years (Ant. 10.8.4 [143]).​

Contradiction in the texts. 42. 2. 40. No Hebrew for 30, or "young man".

NWT:

1 Samuel 13:1 NWT - Saul was . . .* years old when he became king,a and for two years he reigned over Israel.

Acts 13:21 NWT - But afterward they demanded a king,+ and God gave them Saul the son of Kish, a man of the tribe of Benjamin,+ for 40 years.
​

NWT is following the ideology of the so-called 'missing' Hebrew, and simply skips it leaving a 'blank'.

MSG:

1 Samuel 13:1 MSG - Saul was a young man when he began as king. He was king over Israel for many years.
​

MEV:

1 Samuel 13:1 MEV - Saul was thirty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned forty-two years over Israel.[a]

a. 1 Samuel 13:1 Lit. “The son of a year was Saul in his ruling and two years he ruled over Israel.” Most translations read in Saul’s age and length of reign from external evidence (Josephus) or from the New Testament (Paul, who mentions a forty-year reign for Saul in Ac 13:21).​

GNT:

1 Samuel 13:1 GNT - MISSING, DELETED
​

Treasury of Scripture Knowledge [E-Sword]:

"... reigned one year: Heb. the son of one year in his reigning, This verse is variously interpreted; but probably it only means, according to the Hebrew idiom, that, during the first year nothing remarkable occurred; but after two years (or in the second year of his reign), the subsequent events took place. Exo_12:5; Mic_6:6 *marg. ..."
​

Please notice the random numbers used by all the other Bibles, additions, without Hebrew at all, and even by their additions, put in contradictions into the text.

 

[One Baptism]

I usually use the NIV as my personal "go to" translation. However, anyone familiar in hermeneutics will know that it is always best to use at least two different translations accompanied with a good commentary. That way if you notice that the verses are different, you can turn to the commentary for further information.

Ok, NIV, and multiple versions, once again, here we go:

Galatians 5:12 KJB - I would they were even cut off which trouble you.

Galatians 5:12 GNT TR - οφελον και αποκοψονται οι αναστατουντες υμας​

Sounds clear, right? Paul desired to have those meddlesome persons separated from the flock. Spiritual.

Let's see the filthy carnal minds of the more modern translators...

Galatians 5:12 NIV - As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

Galatians 5:12 ASV - I would that they that unsettle you would even go beyond circumcision.

Galatians 5:12 CEV [E-Sword] - I wish that everyone who is upsetting you would not only get circumcised, but would cut off much more!

Galatians 5:12 ESV - I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!

Galatians 5:12 CEB - I wish that the ones who are upsetting you would castrate themselves!

Galatians 5:12 GNT - I wish that the people who are upsetting you would go all the way; let them go on and castrate themselves!

Galatians 5:12 ISV - I wish that those who are upsetting you would castrate themselves!

Galatians 5:12 HCSB - I wish those who are disturbing you might also get themselves castrated!

Galatians 5:12 NASB - I wish that those who are troubling you would even [a]mutilate themselves.

Galatians 5:12 NLT - I just wish that those troublemakers who want to mutilate you by circumcision would mutilate themselves.​

Wow, those 'renderings' are really 'spirit' filled, just not of the Holy Spirit. Filled with retaliation, and mutilation, and castration.

Paul, what should "cut off" mean?

Romans 11:22 KJB - Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.​

Moses, what should "cut off" mean?

Exodus 12:19 KJB - Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land.

Leviticus 7:21 KJB - Moreover the soul that shall touch any unclean thing, as the uncleanness of man, or any unclean beast, or any abominable unclean thing, and eat of the flesh of the sacrifice of peace offerings, which pertain unto the LORD, even that soul shall be cut off from his people.

Leviticus 7:25 KJB - For whosoever eateth the fat of the beast, of which men offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, even the soul that eateth it shall be cut off from his people.

Leviticus 22:3 KJB - Say unto them, Whosoever he be of all your seed among your generations, that goeth unto the holy things, which the children of Israel hallow unto the LORD, having his uncleanness upon him, that soul shall be cut off from my presence: I am the LORD.​

Joshua, what does "cut off" mean?

Joshua 3:16 KJB - That the waters which came down from above stood and rose up upon an heap very far from the city Adam, that is beside Zaretan: and those that came down toward the sea of the plain, even the salt sea, failed, and were cut off: and the people passed over right against Jericho.​

Chronicler, what does "cut off" mean?

1 Kings 9:7 KJB - Then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a byword among all people:

2 Chronicles _32:21 KJB - And the LORD sent an angel, which cut off all the mighty men of valour, and the leaders and captains in the camp of the king of Assyria. So he returned with shame of face to his own land. And when he was come into the house of his god, they that came forth of his own bowels slew him there with the sword.​

Zechariah, what does "cut off" mean?

Zechariah 11:16 KJB - For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces.​

A new problem...

Now:

Judges 1:14 KJB - And it came to pass, when she came to him, that she moved him to ask of her father a field: and she lighted from off her ass; and Caleb said unto her, What wilt thou?​

Let's compare another modern [per]version:

New English Bible - "... The New English Bible expresses no denominational or doctrinal viewpoint. It is not a revision of any previous version, but a completely new rendering, which seeks to achieve [1] clarity, [2] dignity, and in many places [3] true poetry. ..."

Judges 1:14 NEB - When she came to him, he incited her to ask her father for a piece of land. As she sat on the ass, she broke wind, and Caleb said, 'What did you mean by that?​

The parallel is also repeated in the same manner in Joshua 15:18 NEB.

Those who change and alter and "cut" away, and add into the Bible such things, are writing into them their own judgment.

 

[TCassidy]

You really should find a source to copy and paste from that actually knows something about bible texts and translations.

The Greek word αποκοψονταιn is a future tense, middle voice, indicative verb meaning "to amputate" or "to mutilate" the masculine body parts.

Paul is making a play on words, saying that those who trouble them should do more than just being circumcised, but should go even further and emasculate themselves.

The other references, including Romans 12, are entirely different words.

 

[delizzle]

If you would not have cut off my sentence [ Your KJVO myth is false. even without an ellipses, which is grievous misrepresentation], you would understand what I meant when I said, "Jesus has indeed used the 1611 ...", which is followed immediately by "Jesus has indeed used the 1611 [aka King James Bible in English], look at the revivals, souls saved, lives converted, etc."

I did not say Jesus, in the days of the 12 Apostles, used a book, called by the date, the "1611".

Jesus, who is still alive, and in the place called [the 3rd] Heaven, used [and still uses, by the Holy Spirit, through angels, men and providences] the 1611 [the King James Bible], His preserved words, in the English language, to deliver people, to bring revivals, etc.

I was being facetious. Lol.

 

[One Baptism]

I usually use the NIV as my personal "go to" translation. However, anyone familiar in hermeneutics will know that it is always best to use at least two different translations accompanied with a good commentary. That way if you notice that the verses are different, you can turn to the commentary for further information.

Here is a persepctive on the NIV [etal.], not from an Seventh-day Adventist, but just going through the texts themselves, and the history [some sound quality in the beginning of programs 1 and 2 cuts out, just move past it]:

Modern Bible Versions - NIV Exposed Pt1 (History)

Modern Bible Versions - NIV Exposed Pt2 (Deletions)

Modern Bible Versions - NIV Exposed Pt3 (Distortions)

Modern Bible Versions - NIV Exposed Pt4 (Footnotes)

Modern Bible Versions - NIV Exposed Pt5 (Conclusion)

Again, a non-Seventh-day Adventist persepctive, just citing the histories, persons, etc:

New Versions Are Vatican Versions Part 1 of 3
New Versions Are Vatican Versions Part 1 of 3

New Versions Are Vatican Versions Part 2 of 3
New Versions Are Vatican Versions Part 2 of 3

New Versions Are Vatican Versions Part 3 of 3
New Versions Are Vatican Versions Part 3 of 3

 

[delizzle]

Have you ever thought of getting a four translation Parallel Bible?

I use Logos bible software for in-depth study. I can parallel just about every translation and Greek and Hebrew. But Logos can be expensive. There are a lot of free sources that do the same thing.

 

[thatbrian]

How can you separate Christ the living word from the written word? You are making a separation that I do not believe is possible.

I am not separating Christ from the written word. My point was regarding specific *translations* of the texts.

 

[thatbrian]

I can't believe that this debate never ends. The KJV is among the least accurate translations we have at our disposal today and it's written in archaic language, but if someone has a preference for it, that's fine. I don't think that they will fall into grave error because of the KJV; however, they do fall into grave error when they stray into KJV-onlyism, which is a form of idolatry.

 

[One Baptism]

You really should find a source to copy and paste from that actually knows something about bible texts and translations.

The Greek word αποκοψονταιn is a future tense, middle voice, indicative verb meaning "to amputate" or "to mutilate" the masculine body parts.

Paul is making a play on words, saying that those who trouble them should do more than just being circumcised, but should go even further and emasculate themselves.

The other references, including Romans 12, are entirely different words.

I copied nothing [best not to assume, you know what happens when a person does that], except to transfer the texts, and demonstrate by the scripture itself, how the words are defined. The text themselves explain the word and what it means. To 'cut off' is indeed to separate, to amputate. No issue. The problem is the carnal mind versus the spiritual mind.

Do you really think Paul meant a retaliation, to cut off the male reproductive, rather than to simply be 'amputated', 'separated from', 'cut off' from the body of Christ? [Matthew 5:29,30; Mark 9:43,45; Romans 12:4,5; 1 Corinthians 6:15, 12:12,18,20 KJB]? If so, I pity you, really.

However, let's read it your way, anyway, from an OT perspective which deals with the Physical:

Deuteronomy 23:1 KJB - He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
​

Don't you think that the NT is the Spiritual, and that Paul understood this?

1 Corinthians 15:46 KJB - Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.​

Who is really doing the copying, and not reading the text, in plain English?

John Gill [Baptist]:

Galatians 5:12 Notations - "... I would they were even cut off which trouble you. These words are a solemn wish of the apostle's with respect to the false teachers, or an imprecation of the judgment of God upon them; that they might be cut off out of the land of the living by the immediate hand of God, that they might do no more mischief to the churches of Christ: this he said not out of hatred to their persons, but from a concern for the glory of God, and the good of his people. The word here used answers to the Hebrew word קפח, and which is often made use of by the Jews in solemn imprecations; we read (o) of a righteous man, מקפח את בניו, "that cut off his children": the gloss upon it is, ..."​

Adam Clarke [Methodist]:

Galatians 5:12 Notations - "... As the persons who were breeding all this confusion in the Churches of Galatia were members of that Church, the apostle appears to me to be simply expressing his desire that they might be cut off or excommunicated from the Church. Kypke has given an abundance of examples where the word is used to signify amputating; cutting off from society, office, etc.; excluding. ..."
​

Treasury of Scripture Knowldge CROSS-references:

"... cut: Gal_5:10, Gal_1:8-9; Gen_17:14; Exo_12:15, Exo_30:33; Lev_22:3; Jos_7:12, Jos_7:25; Joh_9:34; Act_5:5, Act_5:9; 1Co_5:13; Tit_3:10 ..."
​

B. W. Johnson:

Galatians 5:12 Notations - "... I would they were even cut off. These men are seeking to make the mark of bondage by cutting your flesh. I would that they would cut themselves off (see Revision). I take it that he means "Cut themselves off from the church so as to have nothing more to do with it." ..."
​

Jamieson, Fausset and Brown:

Galatians 5:12 Notations - "...were even cut off — even as they desire your foreskin to be cut off and cast away by circumcision, so would that they were even cut off from your communion, being worthless as a castaway foreskin (Gal_1:7, Gal_1:8; compare Php_3:2). The fathers, Jerome, Ambrose, Augustine, and Chrysostom, explain it, “Would that they would even cut themselves off,” that is, cut off not merely the foreskin, but the whole member: if circumcision be not enough for them, then let them have excision also; an outburst hardly suitable to the gravity of an apostle. But Gal_5:9, Gal_5:10 plainly point to excommunication as the judgment threatened against the troublers: and danger of the bad “leaven” spreading, as the reason for it. ..."
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[One Baptism]

I can't believe that this debate never ends. The KJB is among the least accurate translations we have at our disposal today and it's written in archaic language, but if someone has a preference for it, that's fine. I don't think that they will fall into grave error because of the KJV; however, they do fall into grave error when they stray into KJV-onlyism, which is a form of idolatry.

Archaic words? You supposedly mean like these?

abode kernels ancients laden aright lance asunder lusty away with mantle beckon mattock begotten naught bier nurtured bewitched odious bowels osprey calved pangs celestial phylacteries coney plowshare confections rend convince respite cormorant rushes decked soothsayer deride spoil distill suckling dung temperate effect tetrarch estate trafficked forevermore unto fowl usury girdle vaunt hallowed vestments haunt vex heresies wanton infamy yokefellow inasmuch insatiable jeopardy

abase deride heresies pipes temperate abated didst hinds plowshare tenons abode distill importune presbytery teraphim adjure doest impotent principalities tetrarch alms dost inasmuch putrefaction thee ancient doth issue raiment thereon apparel dung jeopardy rampart thine aright effect know ravening thou art eminent laden remission thy asunder engines laud rend timbrel away with estate layer reprobate trafficked backbiting evermore lightness requite travail beget familiar litters riot unto beseech feigned lordly rushes usury bewail fetch lunatic seemly vagabond bewitched firstlings lusty seest valor bondwomen fleshhook mail seethe vaunt bowels footmen maintenance shalt venture breeches forbearance mammon sherd verily brimstone fowl mantle shod vermillion calves fuller maranatha shouldst vex canst gaiety mattock shouldest virtue cleave garners milch smith wanton comely gavest mill solace warp constrains girdle nether soothsayer wayfarers cormorant graven nurtured sore whence couches gross odious speakest wherewith covert guile offscouring stay woof crib handmaid pangs strait wrought dainty harrow paramours suckling yea dearth hast perdition swaddling yonder deck haunt phylacteries tares

abase daubed henceforth principality vestments abode dayspring heresies prognostication vex alms debased immutable psaltery virtue amiss decks impudent quarter visage anise deride inasmuch rampart wanton apparel dispensation issue rid warp aright disquiet jeopardy rifled wayfaring austere distill jot riotous whence away with dung know rushes whereupon backbiters effect laden satiate whet beckoned epistle laud shamefaced winebibber beggarly eventide laver shod woof begot evermore litters smith wrought bemoan familiar lordly soothsayer yea beseech fan lusty spoil yonder bewail feigned mail straits bewitched fetch mammon suckling bittern flanks mantle tares bondwomen flay mattock temperate brimstone footmen mill tenons calves forbearance mite terrestrial carnal foursquare nativity tetrarch celestial fowl offend therein circumspect fuller offscouring timbrel cloven gad omnipotent tittle comeliness godhead or ever unto concourses graven pangs usury confederacy greyhound paramours vagabond convince gross phylacteries valor covert hallowed pipes vehement crib haunts plowshare verity dainties hemlock potentate vermillion

abase disquieted henceforth ravening abate dissembles hoarfrost remission abode distill impudent rend adjuration dromedaries inasmuch riotous alms dung isles rushes apparel effect know sacrilege assuaged enjoined laden satiate asunder ensign lance seethe augment ensues laud sherd away with estate laver sloth backbiting eventide litters smith beget evermore lusty solace beggarly execration mail soothsayer bemoan familiar maintenance stay beseech firmament mantle straits bewail firstling mattock stripling bewitched flagon milch suppliants bier flay mill surfeit bowels footmen naught swaddling calving forbear noontide temperate cleft foursquare obeisance teraphim clemency fowl oblation thereupon comely fuller odious thrice coneys gad or ever timbrel constrains garner pangs trafficked cormorant goodly paramours unshod covert gross perdition crib guile phylacteries dainty hallowed pipes debased haltingly plowshare decked harrow pound delectable haunt rampart
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None of those are being cited from the King James BIble [though they exist therein].

Row 1 is the NIV 1973.

Row 2 is the NASB [from revised ASV 1901].

Row 3 is the NKJV 1982.

Row 4 is the NRSV 1999 ["milch"].
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What was that argument from "archaic" again? Tell me please ...

 

[Rippon]

While many English translations contain some of God's word, the King James Bible is God's word, in English.

LOL!!

You're good for a laugh.