Your KJVO myth is false.

[Rippon]

Where is the original NKJV?
​

What do you mean by "the original NKJV"?

Where is the Weymouth? Where is the Goodspeed?

I consult both of those translations. I have editions of both. You can also find them on line. They are a God-send.

Where is the ISV?

I compare translations a great deal --that's one of my go-to translations.

Where is the ESV, NASB, CSB, NET, LEB, CEB, NLT and NIV? They are still here and going strong!​

 

[One Baptism]

LOL!!

You're good for a laugh.

God's word?

Judges 1:14 NEB - When she came to him, he incited her to ask her father for a piece of land. As she sat on the ass, she broke wind, and Caleb said, 'What did you mean by that?​

If it is not God's Holy word, but is rather to be found a cruel and malicious interjection by an unsanctified man [a Judas], then my statement already begins to appear true.

 

[One Baptism]

What do you mean by "the original NKJV"?...

They make running changes and do not tell you outright:

KJB:

Zechariah 13:6 KJB - “... What are these wounds in thine hands? ...”

John 20:25 KJB - The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.​

NKJV:

NKJV [1982 ver.] Zechariah 13:6 “... What are these wounds in your hands? ...”

NKJV [1994/2011 ver.] Zechariah 13:6 “... What are these wounds between your arms? ...”

NKJV [1994/2011 ver.] John 20:25 The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord.” So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”​

KJB:

Philippians 2:6 KJB - Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:​

NKJV:

NKJV [1979 ed.] “Who, being in the very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped.”

NKJV [2011 ed.] “who, [a] being in the form of God, did not consider it [1] robbery to be equal with God.”

NKJV [2011 ed.] “[1] Or something to be held onto to be equal”​

 

[robycop3]

I believe [therefore it is ultimately a statement and position based in scriptural faith, Hebrews 11:6; Romans 14:23 KJB, though I do have foundational evidences historically and prophetically that strenghthen that faith] that the King James BIble, that I hold in my hand presently, is the [not 'a'] inspired and the preserved word of God in the English language, and is the final authority in all matters of Faith and Practice. I believe it is without error in its words, according to Psalms 12:6-7; John 10:35; Matthew 4:4; Luke 4:4; Matthew 24:35; Mark 13:31; Luke 21:33 KJB, etc, even as Christ Jesus Himself, is the word without error, Hebrews 4:15, etc KJB.

The OT is primarily in the singular common Hebrew language [a minor section in the Hebrew offshoot, Syriac/Chaldean of Daniel 2:4b-7:28, and in a few other minor places]. If others wanted to know what JEHOVAH Elohiym had to say they had to learn this language or have it extempore translated to them.

The NT is primarily in the singular Koine or common Greek language [some minor spoken words in syriac/ some call Aramaic, etc].

That the Bible, in its preserved state, on the whole should be in a singular, common and primary language, such as the global English [of England, since it is in Canada, Australia, England, Africa, China and Americas, as in other places also] is actually scriptural, following God's pre-establish pattern of working and dealings with men. It does not mean that God cannot translate His word into other languages [such as the Spanish Purifcada, or even certain edition of the Gomez, etc], as in the books of Acts, etc.

The Bible, whether OT or NT or in toto, has always been in the hands of God's people, though in certain instances, the numbers grew very few indeed, even a remnant.

I do quote, and have quoted on numerous occasions, even in this very forum, from other translations. such as the so-called LXX, the Bishop's, Tyndale, Geneva, Wycliffe, and from the GNT TR and the HOT, and other language texts, such as the German Luther Bibel, the Italian Diodati, and the French Olivetan, etc. and from the Stephanus, Elzivir, etc, and even from the catholic texts, of the Jerome's vulgate, the Douay Rheims, etc and from the eclectic and other text types [alexandrian, such as the Sinaiticus, Vaticanus, Alexandrius, etc], Westcott and Horts, and from the USB [United Bibles Society] and the NA [also called NU] [Nestle Alands, and Eberhard Nestles texts] and from the more recent texts of the RV, ASV, ESV, CEV, NIV, NKJV, Holman's and from the others such as the KIT [Kingdom Interlinear] and NWT [New World 'Translation'] of the WTS [JW; when necessary when dialoguing with them or for others information,citation], etc., etc.. However, I do believe, that there are issues with each of these in its words, examples upon request.

As stated previously, to you, in charity [1 Corinthians 13 KJB], I have read Benjamin G. Wilkinson's works, both on the common Bible, aka the King James Bible,

Our Authorized Bible Vindicated - http://www.present-truth.org/6-Library/Authorized Bible-all.pdf

Answers to Objections - http://www.sdadefend.com/MINDEX-Resource Library/ANSWERS TBJECTIONS.pdf

Truth Triumphant - https://www.sabbathtruth.com/portals/20/documents/Truth_Triumphant.pdf​

I pray that this thread is not about Benjamin G. Wilkinson personally, but we can look at evidence and facts in textual matters?

I will recommend to all, the following helpful sources, which contains many sources, and if any would like to add to my sources, let me know, by posting them, and I will consider them for addition if worthy - KJV Bible Vindicated

As I stated before on several occasions, I believe you have a misunderstanding about my present position, but since you seem to be itching on this subject and desire most vehemently on having this discussion, so be it.

I apologize, but my responses may not always be swift in this, as recently my internet connection seems to be getting worse, I am piggybacking a signal about 1/2 mile away, without a router, through a borrowed connection, and therefore, please forgive me, if I am not always able to respond right away, as there are times when this will not work for several days, and currently I am re-routing through a limited phone data connectionm, which will shortly run out on its limit.

You call me a 'cult', fine I accept the label:

Acts 24:14 KJB - But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Acts 24:5 KJB - For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:​

My first question to you brother robycop3 is, since I have already provided mine own answer above:

What text or translation [in any language], if any in your position, is the perfect words of God, being without error in its words, being perfectly inspired and preserved by JEHOVAH Elohiym?​

My second question to you brother robycop3 is, since I have already provided mine own answer above:

What is your final authority in all matters of faith and practice?, if you have such final authority/ies, please list the singular or multiple source/s.
​

I do pray that you treat me with the same respect, and answer my questions, even as I answer yours in kind.

May God help us all, here, that His truth may be known, His word be magnified [Psalms 138:2 KJB], and that we submit humbly to His will. In Jesus', my Saviour's, name, Amen.

I see you're just chock-full of false doctrines, proving a theory of mine that believing one FD of faith/worship keeps satan's foot in the door to allow others to come in.

First, the whole SDA thingie is a cult, "having a form of godliness, but denying its POWER.".

Second, the KJV is but ONE ENGLISH TRANSLATION of God's word. It is NOT the ONLY valid English Bible translation. That idea is false & man-made.

Third, the whole false "Psalm 12:6-7 thingie" comes straight from Dr. W's book, which is the "foundation stone" of the current KJVO myth. While he didn't originate that false idea, it was drawn from his book by later KJVOs. However, that doctrine is FALSE, and is proven false by the words of the very makers of the AV 1611, who included this footnote for the 2nd them in Psalm 12:7 - "Heb. him, I. Euery one of them.". They knew that verse is about PEOPLE, and subbed the plural them for the singular I.

And Dr. W was a friend of EGW's, and held her writings to be on a par with Scripture. So, I place but little stock in anything he wrote.

AND...

BY WHAT AUTHORITY do you believe the KJVO myth? It's NOT found in the KJV itself! In fact, the AV men themselves were NOT KJVO, as they indicated in their preface to the AV 1611 So again, what's your AUTHORITY for KJVO?

 

[Rippon]

Judges 1:14 NEB -​

If it is not God's Holy word, but is rather to be found a cruel and malicious interjection by an unsanctified man [a Judas], then my statement already begins to appear true.

The NEB is hardly ever used these days. It's successor --the REB has scant more readers. I will let you know if the reading is different or not.

 

[robycop3]

Was King "James Onlyism" Invented by a Seventh-Day Adventist?

Defending the KJV predates Ben Wilkinson. Can you please stop using this argument?

No, I WON'T.

Why?

Because, in using it, I'm referring to the CURRENT EDITION of the KJVO myth. There have been KJVOs since 1611, same as there were "Geneva Onlyists", etc. before then.

But the PRESENT KJVO myth was definitely drawn from Dr. W's book by two dishonest "authors" who legally plagiarized his book, as he couldn't get a USA copyright for it. Those "authors" were "J. J. Ray" and Dr. D. O. Fuller. Using modern media to hawk their wares, they started the current KJVO myth.

How do I know? I lived thru it. I'm almost 70 years old & have seen most of the sad results of the current KJVO myth, having been a Christian since Nov. 22, 1978.

 

[robycop3]

Here we go again.

There were two editions of the King James Bible - The Cambridge and the Oxford.

http://www.havenfwbchurch.org/hp_wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/KJV400.pdf

KJVO proponents are a divided camp as to which one is the "pure" text.



http://www.bibleprotector.com/THERE_IS_ONLY_ONE_PURE_KING_JAMES_BIBLE.pdf

Others claim the Cambridge edition is a counterfeit King James Bible



Believers Beware of Counterfeit King James Bibles

So the first order of business is to determine the "pure" text of the 1611 King James Bible.

Cambridge, Oxford or perhaps even the Nelson Edition.

What is the criteria of determination?

One could start by not believing the goofy writings of either Matthew Verschuur or Nic Kizziah.

 

[One Baptism]

I was being facetious. Lol.

Understood. However, are you seriously considering the evidences of the various positions in this thread, as an educational tool?

In the NIV, what is God's name? I know what it is in the King James Bible [even if people disagree with the translation of the Hebrew, I do not think so at all though]

Do these NIV texts even make sense? Honestly.

Exodus 6:3 KJB - And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

Exodus 6:3 NIV - I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty,[a] but by my name the Lord I did not make myself fully known to them.​

Psalms 83:18 KJB - That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

Psalms 83:18 NIV - Let them know that you, whose name is the Lord — that you alone are the Most High over all the earth.
​

His name is "the Lord", in the NIV? That is not a name. It is not even a transliteration of the Hebrew letters. Would the NIV say that the name of Jesus in Hebrew or Koine Greek is?

 

[One Baptism]

The NEB is hardly ever used these days. It's successor --the REB has scant more readers. I will let you know if the reading is different or not.

Indeed, two more 'peter'[ed] out ...

 

[One Baptism]

... Third, the whole false "Psalm 12:6-7 thingie" comes straight from Dr. W's book, which is the "foundation stone" of the current KJVO myth. While he didn't originate that false idea, it was drawn from his book by later KJVOs. However, that doctrine is FALSE, and is proven false by the words of the very makers of the AV 1611, who included this footnote for the 2nd them in Psalm 12:7 - "Heb. him, I. Euery one of them.". They knew that verse is about PEOPLE, and subbed the plural them for the singular I....

So, do you have any texts that demonstrate that God would preserve His word by promise?

I do.

Psalms 12:6-7 KJB:

Context:

Psalms 12:1 KJB - To the chief Musician upon Sheminith, A Psalm of David. Help, LORD; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men.

Psalms 12:2 KJB - They speak vanity every one with his neighbour: with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak.

Psalms 12:3 KJB - The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things:

Psalms 12:4 KJB - Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?

Psalms 12:5 KJB - For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.

Psalms 12:6 KJB - The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

Psalms 12:7 KJB - Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Psalms 12:8 KJB - The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted.​

The context is the contrast between the flattering words of double hearted men who will be "cut off" [cease, disappear, annihilate], with the pure words of God who preserves them [keeps them]. What is the closest antecedant to the English "them", words or people?

Do you know that Jesus is the word of the NT that was purified 7 times? There are 7 trials ... [this is the short version]

 

[One Baptism]

... Second, the KJV is but ONE ENGLISH TRANSLATION of God's word. It is NOT the ONLY valid English Bible translation. That idea is false & man-made. ...

Paul wrote certain of the OT text in the NT, and thus translated the Hebrew into the Koine Greek. How many Koine Greek translations should we have for what Paul used from the OT?

 

[robycop3]

So, do you have any texts that demonstrate that God would preserve His word by promise?

I do.

Psalms 12:6-7 KJB:

Context:

Psalms 12:1 KJB - To the chief Musician upon Sheminith, A Psalm of David. Help, LORD; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men.

Psalms 12:2 KJB - They speak vanity every one with his neighbour: with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak.

Psalms 12:3 KJB - The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things:

Psalms 12:4 KJB - Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?

Psalms 12:5 KJB - For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.

Psalms 12:6 KJB - The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

Psalms 12:7 KJB - Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Psalms 12:8 KJB - The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted.​

The context is the contrast between the flattering words of double hearted men who will be "cut off" [cease, disappear, annihilate], with the pure words of God who preserves them [keeps them]. What is the closest antecedant to the English "them", words or people?

Do you know that Jesus is the word of the NT that was purified 7 times? There are 7 trials ... [this is the short version]

Something you missed in the KJV.(NOT "KJB"!) - Psalm 12:6 is a COMPARISON between God's words & the purest earthly thing David knew of, silver refined 7 times, which was the standard for silver used in Tabernacle instruments.

God's words are pure from the instant He utters them. They do not, and did not need refining!

And there are many other Scriptures saying God will preserve His word to man. I don't believe there's any question of that.

But I see you're avoiding my question of what your AUTHORITY is for believing the man-made KJVO myth. Without any authority, it can only be false.

 

[robycop3]

Paul wrote certain of the OT text in the NT, and thus translated the Hebrew into the Koine Greek. How many Koine Greek translations should we have for what Paul used from the OT?

Only those actually made by Paul.

 

[One Baptism]

Only those actually made by Paul.

Ok, thank you.

 

[One Baptism]

... God's words are pure from the instant He utters them. ...

Yep.

And there are many other Scriptures saying God will preserve His word to man. I don't believe there's any question of that. ...

Good, could you list those for me please?

 

[HankD]

I would say that the 119th Psalm is a testimony to the preservation of God's word.

Psalm 119:89 Forever, O LORD, Your word is settled in heaven.

 

[John of Japan]

I can't believe that this debate never ends. The KJV is among the least accurate translations we have at our disposal today and it's written in archaic language, but if someone has a preference for it, that's fine. I don't think that they will fall into grave error because of the KJV; however, they do fall into grave error when they stray into KJV-onlyism, which is a form of idolatry.

No, the KJV is among the most accurate translations we have today, as long as you understand the English. (And I'm not KJVO.)

 

[delizzle]

Understood. However, are you seriously considering the evidences of the various positions in this thread, as an educational tool?

In the NIV, what is God's name? I know what it is in the King James Bible [even if people disagree with the translation of the Hebrew, I do not think so at all though]

Jehovah is not the true name of God. It's been lost. The closest we have is an unpronounceable abbriviation "YHWH". Thus, "Lord" would be a more accurate title for God over "Jehovah".

 

[delizzle]

No, the KJV is among the most accurate translations we have today, as long as you understand the English. (And I'm not KJVO.)

Thou shalt not kill.
Exodus 20:13 KJV

Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Numbers 31:17‭-‬18 KJV

So, why the contradiction?

 

[HankD]

No, the KJV is among the most accurate translations we have today, as long as you understand the English. (And I'm not KJVO.)

I wholeheartedly agree. However, we Baptist for the most part are a cloistered folk with our KJV bibles (those who prefer them).
Even in my KJVO days (60's - 70's) we had problems sharing His word with the public.

I still have an unashamed love for the KJV - Cambridge, Oxford or Nelson (Oxford preference) as long as its NOT red letter (almost impossible to find anymore).

However when I teach I make a composite of the KJV, modern texts and if necessary my own translation researched English.

Christmas just wouldn't be Christmas without Luke Chapters 1 and 2 read from A King James Bible!