Predestination always refers to the saints in the Bible.
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2nd fallacy of "non-cals"
- Thread starter Luke2427
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Predestination always refers to the saints in the Bible.
You would than have only a SINGLE WILL for God, and all things are predetermined...
Would be seen as being "high" calvinism, broadering Hyper...
Hyper IF you see double predestination, God directly causing Heaven/Hell destinantions for people, and IF God caused Falls of satan and Adam!
Chapter III
Of God's Eternal Decree
yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin.... nothing can be more false and blasphemous than to call sin a creature of God, when it is rebellion of the creature against the Creator, the creature's transgression of the law of the Creator. What your doing is adding fatalism & pantheism into the equation.
If thats what it means to be a Calvinist, then I dont buy it.
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Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
Thank you!!! I wondered when some more of you would finally start calling him out on his extreme views! :thumbsup:
Wooooh! Im not calling anyone out, least a beloved brother. I disagree with him on his interpretation. He still is my brother in Christ so stop doing your Snoopy dance.
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
I never suggested that you thought he wasn't your brother in Christ. I was merely thanking you for finally calling him on his extreme views and questioning his interpretation on these matters. That's all.
No problem.....as we say in NJ....forgedda bout it!
Reply to Quantumfaith,
Let me ask you a question, does God predestine everything.
Let me ask you a question, does God predestine everything.
This may shock some, but I do not consider Luke extreme (neither does he of himself), but I believe Luke is CONSISTENT. He may very well be the most consistent Calvinist here at BB. Luke is following the doctrines of Calvinism to their logical conclusions.
This is not meant as an insult, but I see "moderate" Calvinists as compromisers. They are trying to have one foot in the Cal camp, and the other in the non-Cal or Arm camp.
Non-Cals and Arms can never be seen as accusing God of being the cause of sin, we take full responsibility for our own choices and actions.
The Cal/DoG has a difficult problem here. They want to exalt God's sovereignty, and claim he decrees all things whatsoever that comes to pass, and yet hold to a direct contradiction that God does not decree or cause evil.
At least Luke is consistent with his theology and makes no apologies. I respect that, although I absolutely disagree with his views.
But even Luke does not want to be labelled "Hyper". Why not?
This is not meant as an insult, but I see "moderate" Calvinists as compromisers. They are trying to have one foot in the Cal camp, and the other in the non-Cal or Arm camp.
Non-Cals and Arms can never be seen as accusing God of being the cause of sin, we take full responsibility for our own choices and actions.
The Cal/DoG has a difficult problem here. They want to exalt God's sovereignty, and claim he decrees all things whatsoever that comes to pass, and yet hold to a direct contradiction that God does not decree or cause evil.
At least Luke is consistent with his theology and makes no apologies. I respect that, although I absolutely disagree with his views.
But even Luke does not want to be labelled "Hyper". Why not?
quantumfaith
Active Member
It's not hypercalvinism. It is Calvinism plain and simple.
It is what Calvin taught.
It is what Beza taught.
It is what the Westminster Confession clearly states as I have shown.
It is what the 1689 Baptist confession states.
It is Calvinism that God has decreed all things that ever happen.
He is not the AUTHOR of sin.
But he planned it, willed it, and by the hands and wills of others brought it to pass for holy purposes.
Calvin spoke of remote and proximate causes when it comes to the existence of evil.
God is NOT the proximate cause according to Calvin. But since he is the ultimate cause of all things he is the remote cause of evil.
Evil is a part of the plan of God. God ordered events so that evil would come to pass to serve his purposes.
In that sense he is the "remote" cause of evil.
We cannot have exhaustive Sovereignty and God having nothing to do with evil at the same time.
That God willed that evil be and ordered the universe so that it would infallibly come to pass is Calvinism. There is nothing hyper about it.
Just a ball park figure here.... what PERCENTAGE of events that occur in this world on a daily basis did God engineer in your estimation?
I'd say you nameless theology guys purport that MOST of what happens every day in the world- 80% or better- God wishes would not happen, never intended to happen and has no immediate control over.
And by immediate control- I figure you people believe that God has forfeited his control to the humans in these situations.
Does sound about right?
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
If God is not the author, who is?
If a created beings (i.e. Satan or man), then how did they originate the intent/desire to sin? Where did that first sinful intent originate or begin?
Please answer this question.
quantumfaith
Active Member
I honestly have no idea on the percentage thing, that is one of those "mysteries" of God. Again on the "nameless" thing, which is fine as far as I am concerned even knowing how you intend it as an insult. Your insolence toward those differing from you and your immaturity come through loud and clear. Enjoy yourself in the sandbox.
You did'nt understand that did you? Its called "satire". You sing a happy tune being an elect of God to Salvation. But what if you were NOT ELECTED ?!?!?!
What if you were elected to damnation in hell. By no choice of your own, but by Gods will you were damned and you never even knew it nor did you have a fighting chance. This is Calvinism...........
psalms109:31
Active Member
Will of God
I am ignored because of me not being educated.
Lucifer was ordained to be a Cherub, a guardian. He went against the will of God and God allowed it. He gave him a free will that is why He allowed it, and everyone from the day they were created a perfect being until wickedness was found in them not ordained. When He said that He was talking to King Tyre someone like us and referring to satan. God has placed a hedge of pretection to protect those who will come to Christ. God will is no one to sin if they do it is because of their own wickedness. The purpose is to save His people, those who trust in His Son. If something is allowed it is because it will bring someone to Christ, if it isn't permitted it will prevent someone from comming to Christ. You are condemned for not trusting in His Son and leaning on your own understanding. God will hide the truth from the wise and learned.
God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge, if they don't it is't because God not desiring it.
I am ignored because of me not being educated.
Lucifer was ordained to be a Cherub, a guardian. He went against the will of God and God allowed it. He gave him a free will that is why He allowed it, and everyone from the day they were created a perfect being until wickedness was found in them not ordained. When He said that He was talking to King Tyre someone like us and referring to satan. God has placed a hedge of pretection to protect those who will come to Christ. God will is no one to sin if they do it is because of their own wickedness. The purpose is to save His people, those who trust in His Son. If something is allowed it is because it will bring someone to Christ, if it isn't permitted it will prevent someone from comming to Christ. You are condemned for not trusting in His Son and leaning on your own understanding. God will hide the truth from the wise and learned.
God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge, if they don't it is't because God not desiring it.
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God desires it because God declared that He did:
[God] who desires that all men should be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:4) Darby
The reason they don't is because of the obstinacy of their sinful hearts and their own refusal to accept Christ as Lord.
quantumfaith
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