God's Purposes Thwarted?

I shared my opinion here:

But since you would rather glory in your intellectualism of starting such a tread and playing games why don't you just tell us if you have stopped beating your wife? Yes or No.

Have fun!

 

Yes Ben but unfortunately you mistake who its pointed at. So you need to get a grip....go get a beer or something.

There is an old saying " A man who feels, views life as a tragedy. A man who thinks, views life as a comedy"

 

Luke, have you stopped beating your wife? Yes or No!

Now thats hysterical:laugh:

 

Some men will think and feel, others will just think to make a sport out of viewing life as a comedy. Yes, one can always hide their feelings behind a beer, I choose not to.

(Pro 10:23) It is as sport to a fool to do mischief: but a man of understanding hath wisdom.

 

Yes, everything happens EXACTLY as God always intended and purposed that they would happen.

The above statement seems a statement in support of and reflecting a strict deterministic view of reality. I don't think all 10 people that laid claim to this vote actually believe in determinism (maybe I'm wrong?).

To the following I address this question: Dr. Bob, Earth, Wind & Fire, Havensdad, J.D., jcjordan, JesusFan, Jon-Marc

In what ways does the bolded statement above not reflect or support a strict deterministic view of reality?

 

And of course you still dont get what I told you already but I caution you on your calling people fools...."But anyone who says " you fool" will be in danger of the fire of hell

 

So you don't believe in eternal security? Or are you implying Ben isn't saved?

 

Are you judgeing me? LOL The quote was taken from Christs mouth so go ask him

 

Luke, you are way too bright to use a textbook example of a loaded question.

 

Before I do that I need you to define to me what you think a strict deterministic view is?

And after you get done with that can you tell me what you think this passage of Scripture means ....
Isaiah 45:7

King James Version (KJV)

7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Lastly, can you tell me if "Evil" is the correct translation.....NIV says "I bring prosperity & create Disaster" ...... Anybody, Anybody (Bueler) LOL

Thanks

 

You are the one who said (voted), "Yes, everything happens EXACTLY as God always intended and purposed that they would happen."

Why would I need to explain such to you before you answer my question? I'm asking for clarity sake, to understand how that is not determinism (it seems you're implying that it is not). I think you answering the question as you understand it being asked would be informative for me, no?

 

Was Jesus saying that if a saved person called someone a fool, he would go to hell?

You aimed it at Ben. Explain what you meant.

 

I appreciate humor but your jokes don't make any sense in the context of this serious subject.

 

I read this today in Arthur Pink's book "The Sovereignty Of God" & thought it was good.

"How different is the God of the Bible from the God of modern Christendom! The conception of Deity which prevails most widely today, even among those who profess to give heed to the Scriptures, is a miserable caricature, a blasphemous travesty of the Truth. The God of the twentieth century is a helpless, effeminate being who commands the respect of no really thoughtful man. The God of the popular mind is the creation of maudlin sentimentality. The God of many a present-day pulpit is an object of pity rather than of awe-inspiring reverence. To say that God the Father has purposed the salvation of all mankind, that God the Son died with the express intention of saving the whole human race, and that God the Holy Spirit is now seeking to win the world to Christ; when, as a matter of common observation, it is apparent that the great majority of our fellowmen are dying in sin, and passing into a hopeless eternity; is to say that God the Father is disappointed, that God the Son is dissatisfied, and that God the Holy Spirit is defeated. We have stated the issue baldly, but there is no escaping the conclusion. To argue that God is "trying His best" to save all mankind, but that the majority of men will not let Him save them, is to insist that the will of the Creator is impotent, and that the will of the creature is omnipotent. To throw the blame, as many do, upon the Devil, does not remove the difficulty, for if Satan is defeating the purpose of God, then, Satan is Almighty and God is no longer the Supreme Being."

 

Yea well that is because you dont understand them......nor does Benny apparently. It was lost on both of you. So because you feel your under attack, then you retaliate. You are all retaliatiating because of being hurt or you think you are.....and I understand it. When I asked this board if they loved the brethren, what was your response?

Perhaps that was the wrong question.....It should have been, " Christian, who is your brother?" Whats your starting point sister?

Is it in 1 John 5:11-12

11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

I'm taking this very seriously Amy so I'm turning the other cheek. Your a sister to me & the Penecostalist I met today is a brother to me ..... why cause we both accept Christ as our Lord & Savior.....If we didnt , we would all be psychotic.

 

All right....Ive experienced that different people have different consepts of what hard determinisn is. I would like to know what yours is before I give my answer....so we have clarity.

 

A strict theological determinist view is one which suggests the cause and effect of all things and events (casual determination), including evil and sin, has an uninterrupted origin and attributes that origin to the Creator of the world, thereby logically attributing evil and sin directly to God.

A strict determinist might interpret a verse, such as Isa 45:7 to mean the origin/creation of evil comes from God and uses it as a proof-text to support their view. They attribute evil to God and to support their casual determinist’ position while ignoring the true nature of God revealed in other verses such as Deut 32:4 and James 1:13.

The strict determinist willingly sacrifices the truths that God is Only Good and no evil can come from Him to support his man-made doctrine at the expense of reaching a fatalistic theological view that God creatures do not have volition/abilities to choose apart from that which has been pre-determined for them before creation; thereby they attribute all things, including evil, to a deterministic creator whose character and attributes are not separated from evil and sin.

That said, there are a multitude of treads on Isa 45: 7 which have been started on this board by those who wish to support their fatalistic view by insisting God created/ is the author of evil. I am tired on having to defend the Nature of God on a professed Christian debate board which repeatedly “allows” such accusations against our Holy God all for the sake of equipping the opposition with an antagonistic un-biblical argument. Enough said.

 

OK so where does it turn fatalistic?

 

If that question was meant to be a joke:

(Pro 10:23) It is as sport to a fool to do mischief: but a man of understanding hath wisdom.

If not:

It is fatalistic in denying the True Nature of God. It is fatalistic to logically put the responsibility of evil (declaring a pre-deterministic creator of evil) on God, and the result of that determinist’ logic simply amounts to a denial of the creature to assume responsibility, it is the same as calling God a liar. It is fatalistic theology to rely on anything other than the existence of a Holy God/Creator that is Only Good. Why? Because all His righteous ways are judgment. Deut 32:4.


(1Jn 1:5) This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

(1Jn 1:6) If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

(1Jn 1:7) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

(1Jn 1:8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

(1Jn 1:9) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

(1Jn 1:10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

Do you think it was meant to be a joke?